Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - LEVEL 11 - Part 6

[Demileto]

Spoiler

Looks like Lincoln is still in the hands of HYDRA during the finale

http://blip.tv/abcentertainment/episode-104-post-heist-7191414

That scene seems more akin to being on next week's episode given Skye's clothes, they're the same she wore in her day off with Cal in 2.18.

 

[DN91]

Episode 20, Scars

Makes sense, since that'll be the last of the three episodes that feed directly/off of Age of Ultron in some way.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Episode 20, Scars

Need to check the guest list again.

 

[Surfer]

Back into the MCU? He is in the MCU. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is part of the MCU, no matter what Joss Whedon says.

I fully understand that it is all connected and that everything on Agents of SHIELD is part of the MCU. Perhaps the words I used were not the best. However, if you read my entire post you should have been able to garner from it that I was refering to and speaking of Coulsons reintroduction into the Marvel Movies from his current place on network television. Not that I believed his current status to be somehow seperate from the MCU.

Surfer

 

[Dr. Evil]

As Jeph Loeb as said a bazillion times "It's all connected."

 

[Mike Murdock]

^ Yeah, but Kevin Feige hasn't.

That's really the thing that bothers me about that comment. It's basically saying AoS is a junior partner that doesn't really count. They're deliberately undermining the value of the TV shows when, imo, they've actually contributed to making the movie universe a more interesting place.

 

[giveyourself12%]

As Jeph Loeb as said a bazillion times "It's all connected."

It'd be really nice if a bunch of us could send Joss some "Coulson Lives!" tweets or a gif of Fury telling Coulson that he considers him an Avenger.

 

[giveyourself12%]

they've actually contributed to making the movie universe a more interesting place.

They absolutely have for me. The fans brought this character back from the dead because they want him around. They demanded it, in fact. I don't get Joss' "Yeah, but...no."

It wasn't even him that made the decision to kill the character in the first place so it's not like having him there in the movies will interfere with his original vision for the character, y'know?

 

[Sorath]

I don't think they are deliberately leaving him out of the movies. I think it's more of a combination of a lot of things. For one thing when there filming these movies Clark Gregg is filming Shield. So it makes it hard to do a show and film a movie at the same time.

It's also possible that they don't know exactly how to fit him in. Keep in mind when Captain America Winter Soldier was going on Coulson was dealing with his own problems. It would have been stupid and raised a lot of questions on how he could be dealing with Hydra in the show but suddenly popped up in Captain America. I'm guessing the same is true for AOU as well.

Right now Shield is going through a growing pain. It got knocked down in Captain America and it's not what it once was. Right now there a power play going on and because of that shield importance in the world isn't what it once was.

What I suspect that season three of S.H.E.I.D will be it's return to what it once was. I suspect that the events up Age of Ultron will play a major role in to season 3 of Shield. I also believe that season 3 story arch will be the story that leads in to Captain America Civil War. Instead of the other way around. I believe this will be the best chance for Coulson to reappear in the Marvel Movie Universe. However it's hard to say. That's just kind what I'm predicting and makes the most logical sense.

 

[just one thing]

That Couslon was not in AOU is not the issue. He wasn't needed for the story and thats fine. The issue is that he is still dead in a part of the MCU, not presumed dead, no longer alive dead. thats the stinger.

better left unsaid.

A lot of people come back in The Winter Soldier. It’s a grand Marvel tradition. Bucky was supposed to die. And the Coulson thing was, I think, a little anomalous just because that really came from the television division, which is sort of considered to be its own subsection of the Marvel universe. As far as the fiction of the movies, Coulson is dead.http://mentalfloss.com/uk/movies/28527/qa-joss-whedon-on-super-heroes-the-pop-culture-mainstream

 

[Chemistro]

That scene seems more akin to being on next week's episode given Skye's clothes, they're the same she wore in her day off with Cal in 2.18.

That seems more likely to me.

Very speculative:

My guess is the team will rescue Mike and Lincoln - only for both of them to be captured by Gonzales's SHIELD.
Maybe Skye will have to choose whether to turn on SHIELD - apparently, run by Gonzales or Gonzales and the other members of his group now. But then again, that would not be much of a problem for her.
Maybe May or even Coulson will manage to convince enough members of the ruling group to not imprison (or do something worse to) Skye as well, so by helping Lincoln escape, she'll be betraying their trust. But if she doesn't help him escape, she'll be betraying his trust and that of her mother (btw, I think she should definitely help Lincoln escape, if the situation turns out to be like that. The consequences for Lincoln if she doesn't will be far worse than the consequences for any of the others if she does)

 

[Demileto]

I don't think they are deliberately leaving him out of the movies. I think it's more of a combination of a lot of things. For one thing when there filming these movies Clark Gregg is filming Shield. So it makes it hard to do a show and film a movie at the same time.

It's also possible that they don't know exactly how to fit him in. Keep in mind when Captain America Winter Soldier was going on Coulson was dealing with his own problems. It would have been stupid and raised a lot of questions on how he could be dealing with Hydra in the show but suddenly popped up in Captain America. I'm guessing the same is true for AOU as well.

Right now Shield is going through a growing pain. It got knocked down in Captain America and it's not what it once was. Right now there a power play going on and because of that shield importance in the world isn't what it once was.

What I suspect that season three of S.H.E.I.D will be it's return to what it once was. I suspect that the events up Age of Ultron will play a major role in to season 3 of Shield. I also believe that season 3 story arch will be the story that leads in to Captain America Civil War. Instead of the other way around. I believe this will be the best chance for Coulson to reappear in the Marvel Movie Universe. However it's hard to say. That's just kind what I'm predicting and makes the most logical sense.

I don't think anyone here expects Coulson to have more than a cameo appearance on any future movie if they ever allow him to play the role on them again, in a similar vein to how both Fury and Hill were present in Age of Ultron. As such, I don't see lack of time as a good reason.

Of course, for that to happen they have to move on from the necessary emotional reunion, which, let's fact it, would indeed take quite a bit of screen time of a movie and detract from the main storyline when they seem to be constantly needing to do an herculeous effort to keep the running time close to two hours as to allow for more time slots in theaters. An option could be do such reunion within the TV show, but that relies heavily on the ability of movie screenwriters to be able to get the audience to suspend their disbelief that Coulson has been brought back, everyone knows it and don't find it odd without much exposition, if at all.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That Couslon was not in AOU is not the issue. He wasn't needed for the story and thats fine. The issue is that he is still dead in a part of the MCU, not presumed dead, no longer alive dead. thats the stinger.

better left unsaid.

He's not actually dead in the movies because the movies do share the same universe. Wheddon didn't deliberately flaunt the continuity of the TV show, he just chose not to reference it. He's saying that he prefers to think of Coulson as dead. His preferences aren't canon. He's no more dead in the movies than in the TV show.

But what he made clear is he views the TV shows as an inferior product that are best ignored. That way he can pretend in the movies that Coulson is still dead and he can allow the audience to share his preference.

 

[eddy]

Whedon specifically stated dead in HIS movie. Not the universe. As far as the Avengers are concerned, he's dead. As far as the Avengers are concerned, there is no SHIELD. If Coulson was in the movie, none of this would be true.

 

[just one thing]

He's not actually dead in the movies because the movies do share the same universe. Wheddon didn't deliberately flaunt the continuity of the TV show, he just chose not to reference it. He's saying that he prefers to think of Coulson as dead. His preferences aren't canon. He's no more dead in the movies than in the TV show.

But what he made clear is he views the TV shows as an inferior product that are best ignored. That way he can pretend in the movies that Coulson is still dead and he can allow the audience to share his preference.

not sure how that position can be sqaured with 'its all connected'

if he was misquoted i apologise but he is reported to have said As far as the fiction of the movies, Coulson is dead.http://mentalfloss.com/uk/movies/285...ure-mainstream

 

[Silvermoon]

not sure how that position can be sqaured with 'its all connected'

if he was misquoted i apologise but he is reported to have said As far as the fiction of the movies, Coulson is dead.http://mentalfloss.com/uk/movies/285...ure-mainstream

He's also reported as saying - a bit more specifically - that as far as *this* movie (meaning AOU) is concerned he's dead (but also that bringing him back for Agents of SHIELD was a 'no brainer'). I don't think it's a leap to assume that he's meaning that in AOU it simply wasn't the right time to have that revelation.

Also, ultimately, Whedon is not the end-all-be-all of what will and won't be in future MCU films - his opinion (whether he misspoke or not) is just his opinion. Coulson is alive in the MCU because Agents of SHIELD is a part of the MCU. This is an indisputable fact and one that Whedon is well aware of since he helped bring Coulson back. The question is only when the revelation he's alive might be revealed to the main superheroes of the MCU franchises. AOU wasn't the time to have that happen. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dr. Evil]

As in the case that none of the Avengers know that Coulson is still alive, likewise (outside of Coulson, May and Simmons) nobody on Agents of SHIELD know that Fury is still alive.

 

[Mike Murdock]

not sure how that position can be sqaured with 'its all connected'

Because it's the people from the television side of things that say that. I don't recall Joss Whedon or Kevin Feige saying it.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Because it's the people from the television side of things that say that. I don't recall Joss Whedon or Kevin Feige saying it.

It's mainly been Jeph Loeb.....a million times daily.

 

[just one thing]

He's also reported as saying - a bit more specifically - that as far as *this* movie (meaning AOU) is concerned he's dead (but also that bringing him back for Agents of SHIELD was a 'no brainer'). I don't think it's a leap to assume that he's meaning that in AOU it simply wasn't the right time to have that revelation.

Also, ultimately, Whedon is not the end-all-be-all of what will and won't be in future MCU films - his opinion (whether he misspoke or not) is just his opinion. Coulson is alive in the MCU because Agents of SHIELD is a part of the MCU. This is an indisputable fact and one that Whedon is well aware of since he helped bring Coulson back. The question is only when the revelation he's alive might be revealed to the main superheroes of the MCU franchises. AOU wasn't the time to have that happen. Nothing wrong with that.

He is being called on his opinions. If the MCU was confined to two avengers movies then his argument would have merit, the john gielgud comparison dismisses the development of other parts of the MCU.

The issue isn't that coulson was not in AOU, he was of no use to the plot, thats wheldons call and fine, the issue is this point is being used as the reason for coulson not being in AOU, it creates a segregation.

 

[just one thing]

Because it's the people from the television side of things that say that. I don't recall Joss Whedon or Kevin Feige saying it.

that sorts it then.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Why does it matter? it's all one universe.

 

[giveyourself12%]

Why does it matter? it's all one universe.

Because I (and others, I'm assuming) have a lot of love for the character and his appearences in the other MCU movies have been really enjoyable and integral IMO. I/we want to see that continue.

Also, having that connective tissue bridging the cinematic and television worlds works really really well and is a highlight for me when watching the movies and the show(s).

 

[DN91]

If the TV shows and movies really are separate, then why have plots from the films (S.H.I.E.L.D.'s collapse from Winter Soldier and Hydra experimenting on superpowered people from Age of Ultron) play even a small part within the series itself?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Because the series is clearly drawn from the movies. The series doesn't consider itself separate. The question is whether the movies will ever consider themselves part of the same thing. Will something that happens in a television series ever affect a movie the way the opposite happens (even to the extent of a character appearance)?

I'll give a concrete example. Lady Sif's first appearance had a great moment at the end where she revealed that Odin wanted her to bring Lorelei back to Asgard to serve as a soldier. People who saw The Dark World know that Odin was probably really Loki and he was doing it for his own nefarious purposes. But is that ever going to matter? Will Thor: Ragnorok have Lorelei on Asgard? Does Loki have a plan for her?