BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Mindreaper21]

He can fail sometimes and have personal issues. That's not the problem with this version. The problem is that fails and issues comprise the vast majority of his screen time.

Much of which he could not help. Superman only has about 2 years of experience.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

to me, Snyder movies always makes me go "i like the idea but not so much with the execution". and MoS and BvS are not exceptions. is it him or the script or the editer or the studio, idk...BvS UC can't come soon enough...

THIS SO MUCH!!

He never seems to think past how the images look on screen to if they are actually reinforcing to his characterizations or themes from one scene to the next. He's like an artist that can only trace and copy but can't create from scratch.

The scene in MOS where he walks out of the FOS in costume with Jor-el's "You will be..."

But the entire reason Jor-el sent him was he didn't want his fate to be destined or decided except by Clark's free will.

But Superman's cape in the ice looks cool!!!

 

[Jekecy]

I might have misread your post a bit. But you cannot assume what did or didn't happen over a two year period of saving people based on a few sequences in a montage and one Senate appearance.

What is clear is that he never delivered a big speech about his reason for being among them and/or not answering to them. This version of Superman clearly prefers to operate quietly and let his actions speak for him. This becomes a problem, and it's clear he hasn't communicated his position effectively enough, but that does not mean he never speaks to anyone ever.

It would be a gross oversight for the film to not have any indications if it were otherwise, no? Any other story, I would agree no assumptions can be made either way. Neutrality is favored.

But this narrative has focused squarely on Superman's presence, actions, and inaction. If there are no verbal exchanges with the public being on display at all, I have to assume (given the similarly mute montage) there simply was none.

What's the alternative there; the creative team behind Superman has painted a slant against their titular character by not presenting his side?

He hasn't been explicity shown as a mute with regards to human interaction either. MAN OF STEEL is a thing. That happened. He talked to people and conversed with them in that film.

Refresh my memory then. Who did he speak to as Superman who wasn't specifically military personnel or advisors?

 

[The Guard]

He never seems to think past how the images look on screen to if they are actually reinforcing to his characterizations or themes from one scene to the next.

This is actually a rather ironic statement.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

This is actually a rather ironic statement.

How so?

 

[WBwins]

Edit

 

[Visualiza]

Refresh my memory then. Who did he speak to as Superman who wasn't specifically military personnel or advisors?

That was the problem with MoS. All of his "conversations" were extremely one-sided. Now, this approach can work, as with Neo in The Matrix, but chief among the many reasons why that movie is a better Superman story is because after a while, he became his own fully-realized character that made his own decisions.

How so?

He's trying to say that you only paid attention to the pretty pictures and failed to understand the movie. Yes, that tired argument is still rearing its ugly head.

 

[Flint Marko]

But he's not smiling enough, not warm enough, and not making speeches about hope and goodness.

That's pretty much the long and the short of it.

Actually a lot of us feel that he isn't even really a three-dimensional character with competently dramatized thoughts, feelings, and motivations. Snyder is clearly more interested in him as a symbol than as a character, and it shows through in both MoS and BvS.

 

[MrsKent26]

Much of which he could not help. Superman only has about 2 years of experience.

Yes, but the writers can help it. They could write some balance into the movie for his superman scenes. Show us a little more success and joy.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That was the problem with MoS. All of his "conversations" were extremely one-sided. Now, this approach can work, as with Neo in The Matrix, but chief among the many reasons why that movie is a better Superman story is because after a while, he became his own fully-realized character that made his own decisions.

I know that Lois' story is important to Superman but this is kind of the point where a Jimmy Olsen would have been a great outlet for what humanity (who isn't is girlfriend or ex, or mom) would have been a great idea.

Clark and Jimmy would have done wonders for having a Clark speak out his feelings about Superman to someone who wasn't in on his secret.

He's trying to say that you only paid attention to the pretty pictures and failed to understand the movie. Yes, that tired argument is still rearing its ugly head.

LOL!. Okay.

After Sucker Punch, Watchmen, MOS, and BvS, are we still having this argument about Snyder's ability to string together strong characterizations with his cool images?

 

[Mindreaper21]

Yes, but the writers can help it. They could write some balance into the movie for his superman scenes. Show us a little more success and joy.

Which I can almost guarantee is what will happen in the next film. I think of it like this. Instead of going darker over time like many other characters, Superman is getting lighter.

 

[Visualiza]

Actually a lot of us feel that he isn't even really a three-dimensional character with competently dramatized thoughts, feelings, and motivations. Snyder is clearly more interested in him as a symbol than as a character, and it shows through in both MoS and BvS.

And the problem with that is that he'd be a much more effective symbol if he were a more well realized character.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Actually a lot of us feel that he isn't even really a three-dimensional character with competently dramatized thoughts, feelings, and motivations. Snyder is clearly more interested in him as a symbol than as a character, and it shows through in both MoS and BvS.

Let's be real though, it's only as a Christ symbol they are really pushing though.

If they were going with the Superman as "symbol" they could have gone in 100 different/interesting ways.

Singer fell into the same trap with Returns and fleshing out the feelings around his actual "return."

 

[steve4991]

We're hitting 300 tonight. Rather than break the barrier full force, we crashed earlier and spun into the barrier at about a quarter of the speed.

 

[Sleiek]

It hit 300 yesterday. If we are talking about Domestic Box office.

 

[steve4991]

Part 299

 

[Sleiek]

Oh, I see.. Makes more sense. But what you said about crashing and moving at a quarter speed also works for the Box Office. The Coincidence.

 

[C. Lee]

i wonder how it was when Armageddon and Deep Impact came out in the same summer.

Rivers flowed backwards, cats had carnal knowledge of dogs, the sun didn't set for a week, and gangs of penguins terrorized Kansas.

 

[Jaxon]

After Sucker Punch, Watchmen, MOS, and BvS, are we still having this argument about Snyder's ability to string together strong characterizations with his cool images?

I would argue that Sucker Punch is one of the most complex movies out there, but that's the problem with it. It's about a woman trying to deal with being locked in an asylum and creating projections of herself into 5 girls trapped in a brothel who then fantasise about escaping their capture. It's very complex, but gets wiped off as exposition because their escape fantasties are graphic. Basically it's too complex for people to get.

 

[Sleiek]

I would argue that Sucker Punch is one of the most complex movies out there, but that's the problem with it. It's about a woman trying to deal with being locked in an asylum and creating projections of herself into 5 girls trapped in a brothel who then fantasise about escaping their capture. It's very complex, but gets wiped off as exposition because their escape fantasties are graphic. Basically it's too complex for people to get.

I too believe Sucker Punch is a complex story but people laugh at my face when I say that.

 

[The Guard]

No, it's definitely a fairly complex movie. There's a lot going on with imagery, hidden meaning, etc. There are some pretty interesting analyses of it online.

 

[Deserana]

I would argue that Sucker Punch is one of the most complex movies out there, but that's the problem with it. It's about a woman trying to deal with being locked in an asylum and creating projections of herself into 5 girls trapped in a brothel who then fantasise about escaping their capture. It's very complex, but gets wiped off as exposition because their escape fantasties are graphic. Basically it's too complex for people to get.

Or like most of Snyder's stuff, cool ideas weak execution. He has great ideas that you can find if you look and put other pieces together yourself but his ability to communicate his themes efficiently in his movies is poor. For example, I love most of the themes of BvS but I like only the idea of them, i would have executed them far differently.

I don't think it is a case of people not understanding I feel it's a case of Snyder not being able to communicate.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Sucker Punch is the movie that made me feel sorry for Zack Snyder.

BvS is the film that made me feel less sorry for Zack.

 

[Visualiza]

Sucker Punch is the movie that made me feel sorry for Zack Snyder.

BvS is the film that made me feel less sorry for Zack.

 

[souperman]

Rivers flowed backwards, cats had carnal knowledge of dogs, the sun didn't set for a week, and gangs of penguins terrorized Kansas.

...the PinWings...the PinWings...

The horror...