BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Apologize if this has already been posted but this guy's PodOmatic site about this movie is fantastic:

http://jluniverse.podomatic.com/

He is going scene by scene and explaining all the deeper meanings and themes present in the movie. Very interesting stuff. I'm going to have to go see the movie again to catch some more of the stuff he's pointed out.

 

Mark Hughes says Civil War is the greatest Superhero movie ever.

If this were the Super bowl this is the biggest beatdown since 49ers vs. Chargers.

I thought it would be a great debate which was the better film. Oh well.

 

^You're gonna catch a lot of hell for that.

 

Excellent stuff.

 

Ok, so i just this minute got back from a second viewing. The first was opening night (thursday) and in IMAX 3d.

This film (personally) was better 2nd time round. I had no nerves, no bad critics niggling in my eye, 3D which personally, i don't like and well, an empty cinema. I won't review it, but i would like to point a few things out, from my own personal opinion.

First and foremost, this is a Batman film. We see Superman from the world's perspective - he is treated like a God, we don't really get to go on a journey with Superman, but we do get an insight.

Spoiler

Thomas Wayne's last words 'martha' and the way Clark said it, were the trigger. It was an almost 'wtf' moment in Bruce's head.

It wasn't until Clark repeated his father's line about his wife being his world, to lois that we saw Batman and Superman in a similar vein - both orphan kids trying to please their parents.

What i did find, is that Superman himself, was on a journey - quite why Snyder chose it, i don't know, but i get it.

He came out of that 'pool' realising what he had to do, who he was and why he has to do it - to save man kind. He even had the spit curl, he told lois he loved her, he was his father's son at this point and he was 'superman'. As he sacrificed his life, you could see it in his face, he knew he was doing the right thing.

I also, now we know about specific missing scenes, like clark looking for martha and hearing screams, make sense that is happening whilst Diana looks at the meta files.

Also, the smallville burial - i counted about 20 people there who may have seen the open casket. Bruce, Lois, diana & Martha, leaving 16, which i am assuming are Clarks family and lois's too. Plus Clark was missing since the Capitol Hill explosion - so in a way, it's easy to cover up when he returns.

Sure, i wish the 'dream' sequences were more obvious they were dreams, like, see bruce nod off, or have the scene intercut with him twitching in his sleep, or echoes of Alfred waking him up. i mean - we don't need it to be so obvious it beats us over the head, but should be subtle enough that we aren't wondering what is happening.

Over all, i enjoyed it better a second time.

I also noticed a few subtleties about WW

She enjoyed fighting DD and why was she in the area anyways.. i wish that was explained.

 

It's true. With Sucker Punch, I felt like there were a lot of good ideas that didn't quite fit together. With BvS, I felt like he wasn't trying very hard to tell a good story, at least going by comic standards.

If BvS had that crazy Sucker Punch quality, I'd probably still be in "Zack-Pity Mode"

 

From Scott Kurtz's very cool PVP Online.

 

Even as someone who defends BvS you can just tell Marvel knocked it outta the park. There's no competition with these two. Suicide Squad against Doctor Strange will be interesting though.

 

Good stuff indeed. Very depthful analysis.

 

I loved BvS. But I do have a fear that once I see Civil War it may alter my view of the movie.

However, there does need to be some perspective. Which sadly, I didn't have a year ago. Marvel is like that 10 year vet that in it's in prime. The DCEU right now is like a supremely talented young player trying to find his way.

OT.

I know its a long shot but is there a chance Suicide Squad pulls a Guardians of the Galaxy and tops a Captain America movie? In 2014, that was the surprise hit that did for a lot of people even though Winter Soldier was great.

I really hope thats the movie everyone loves as challenges for best cmb movie of the year. Not likely though.

 

Just read some scans of American Alien #4. Something like that would've been pretty amusing.

 

There was a 50 second CW clip that someone posted which was just the Avengers in a room discussing the ideologies. Even after just 50 seconds I though BvS NEEDED that so bad. CW did in 50 seconds what BvS couldn't fully convey in 2 and a half hours.

As for the second part I think it could. People seem to be seriously underestimating just how much the characters of Batman and The Joker on screen together will pull in an audience. Everybody I know wants to see Suicide Squad. This includes my mum who has no interest in seeing comic book movies other than Nolans trilogy.

 

Yeah my gut reaction to this movie was the same as Age of Ultron "Meh. An okay movie. I felt the time.

It could've been worse. It could've been better."

WB will eventually crack that nut or die trying. They just gotta keep rotating execs & production until they can speak our language, yunno?

Marvel, to me (when I was a kid), has always been able to relate to the younger crowd. DC were something that my bigger brothers were into. A bit more mature. So yeah I get why my brothers loved this movie. This is the closest Batman representation ever.

They kill... whoops! That was a bad Hollywood mistake.

Marvel is not coming from a Hollywood mentality. It's run different so I expect something that is different. And so far, they have delivered. Disney just lets them do their thing. WB has a very traditional Hollywood flair. DC is struggling to guide WB in the right path. But mistakes were bound to happen regardless. Warner Brothers is too Hollywood for their own good.

 

Maybe a scene like that is included in the directors cut. I have high hopes for Suicide Squad.

It just sucks that only a month a part BvS is getting labeled the worst superhero movie ever (hyperbole) and Civil War is getting label the best superhero movie ever (legit critics are saying this. Even fans of BvS)

Not to mention getting trolled like this.

 

Yeah, I saw that clip.

I know people will find a way to still defend this movie by claiming BvS didnt need something like that or whatever and you know what? Thats fine.

During my banishment I've had time to contemplate things and have come to the conclusion basically that those who claim they like BvS will say anything to defend it. There is no point in arguing and arguing too much about it will have the mods crackdown on us. I just accept it now.

My personal belief however is that something like that was really really needed in BvS and managed to capture my attention for the full 50 seconds whereas BvS never managed to capture it for 150 minutes.

This doesn't even have to do with thise characters havibg an 8 year cinematic history together or anything, though that definitely helps. It just has to do with character with opposing views discussing their differences and where they stand.

Something that never really happened in BvS.

 

Is it me or with the impact of this hit Cap killed this guy?
Its the opening seconds. Its the sneak peek from the MTV Awards.
[YT]watch?v=wajZX4nkjyQ [/YT]

That hit looks worse than any hit Batman did.

 

That seems on topic.

 

This is unfortunate. As much as I complain about certain things in BvS, stuff like this is unnecessary. And what's worse is that anyone who calls stuff like this out gets responses like "Oh, whatever. I'm sure that if BvS did better than CW, you'd brag and make jokes like that too." Actually, no. I wouldn't. Because it's in poor taste and I try to avoid that.

 

I THINK the point was that people get so self centered that they can't simply have a talk. Superman and Batman simply can't have a sitdown. Because Batman is driven with rage and sees Superman as an alien nothing more. He disassociates from human life. Superman is reacting to a guy who is clearly in the wrong. What could he say to justify his actions? Not knowing that Batman's actions are because of Superman.

I think they touched on some deep themes it just wasn't the best execution.

Civil War is built on family, history, etc.

Batman/Superman are two people from different worlds (both literally/figuratively) and its the simplest thing that brings them together.

Again...if the execution was there...

 

Oh I most definitely hope not. Cutting a scene like that? That shows me you have no idea what you're doing.

I much rather they just never thought of that and NOW after CW will have gained that perspective than that perspective already being there and them cutting it out.

Then there is no hope.

 

Maybe I'm just a biased Snyder defender.

I think he would be great in a 10 episode Netflix/HBO format.

I would have loved to see this movie divided up over 10 episodes leading to that ending.

Snyder has a lot of great ideas its just figuring out how to fit it in a 2hr 20 min time slot. He's not great at that yet.

Its why Dawn of the Dead is his best reviewed movie. Because it was his simplest movie.

 

It's outright silly and petty for anybody to be touting a RT score when a film that big has less than 30 reviews accounted for.

People were doing the same thing with Batman V Superman when less than 50 reviews were counted and it had a score over 60%.

 

I'm pretty sure its going to finish in the early to mid 90s. It has a very high metascore.

 

It very well might end up with a very high score, but It's still petty for people to tout the RT score as it stands right now.

 

This is the part that pisses me off. There's absolutely no ****ing way this even in the bottom 10 CBMs of all time. If you can say with a straight face that this film is worse than Arnie and Uma Thurman then not only are you lying through your teeth IMO you weren't ever giving this film a chance.