BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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For anyone that cares. From the BvS Empire spread,

July 31, 2014, and Empire finds Ben Affleck primed for his superscrap. He’s Bat-armored to the gills, raccoon-eyed, and chomping loudly on an apple. Yet it’s another epic cinematic struggle that concerns him right now: between bites, he’s discussing with Zack Snyder the merits of Film V Digital. For the record, like Nolan, Snyder is a film zealot, deploying fridge-sized IMAX cameras, painted Bat-black for the occasion. It’s another way in which continuity from the Dark Knight Trilogy is being preserved.
“They exist as three great movies but on their own, and I also wouldn’t be comfortable with saying, ‘we’re gonna one-up that.’ What I’m interested in is that we’re doing something different.”

Affleck’s really connected with the idea that his Batman has been through the mill: he’s seen success, he’s seen failure; he’s had the right intentions, and at times been misunderstood. “Sort of feeling at the end of one’s tether…” he concludes. “I’m really well suited to play this guy.” Can it be that the chief inspiration for Affleck’s Dark Knight is Ben Affleck?

You can see it in Bruce Wayne, still the billionaire operator with a supermodel for every occasion, but greying at the temples and heavy of heart. “It is a cover, one that works well for him,” is how Affleck interprets his other role, “but it is also one that is not a total fake; it’s a part of him.” Wayne and Batman are extensions of the same complex persona.
Which counts for the Bat-voice too. Keaton did him funeral recital, Clooney cheesed off, Bale’s was a psychotic Tom Waits, each a vocalization of an alternative personality. For Affleck’s Batman the voice is as much a tool as the Batmobile. “In our film,” says producer Deborah Snyder, “Batman’s voice is digitally altered by the cowl.”

Affleck has also embrace Snyder’s desire for living sculptures, from the pecs of 300 to Cavill’s own chiseled physique in man of Steel. He stops to make the calculation: over the past year he must have works out over 700 times. And at 43, he’s not getting any younger. “But you really see the physicality of Batman,” he says. Gone are the days of Adam West’s muffin top. Still, the thought of doing Justice League, at 45, causes a wince.

But before any last-act Bat/Supes bromance instigates the DC Avengers, the more immediate issue is how can he possibly hope to bring a superhuman like Kal-El to heel? Will a battle-ready Batmobile and heavyweight Bat-weapons be enough? Or the veritable Batcave of exotic gear they’ve developed for the man in black: Bat-grappling hook, Bat-grenade launcher, Batarang and Bat-scanner.

Flicking through a book of concept art on set, the spoiler-police hasten Empire past pictures where his Bat-arsenal has clearly been married to a lime-green glow. It’s enough to suggest that unlike Man of Steel’s aerial final conflict, this fight will primarily take place on terra firma, rolling around in the grit. This may be less about Batman trying to empower himself to reach Superman’s level than bring the latter down to his own. As Snyder puts, “It’s kind of nice Batman has no superpowers…”

We are in a video village, tented against the desert sun like a Bedouin encampment, and the friendly debate is interrupted when three heralds from the costume department arrive bearing the cowl on a tray. Affleck greets them with a pantomime grimace: “Oh, **** off!” Snyder and DP Larry Fong break into gales of schoolboy laughter as the costume techs, unfazed, begin the transformation.

Today everyone is wearing masks, protection against the sawdust being blown into frenzies by industrial-sized fans. Affleck smirks. He may wear the famous cowl, but his contract doesn’t guarantee protection against his director’s artistic choice (it’s in the small print). As the mask is finally lowered into place, there is an evident spilt down the back: unseen by the camera this will facilitate Henry Cavill’s Superman ripping the cowl free to reveal Affleck as Bruce Wayne beneath: a startling moment you will have seen in the last trailer.

This, it is explained is a dream sequence. The look of which, thrillingly, is pure Mad Max, as Batman, clad in calf-length Spaghetti Western-style duster and shouldering a machine gun, walks unbowed through the blizzard to greet an armored juggernaut pulling up in a desert compound that’s walled with rusty containers. We’ve never seen the Dark Knight look quite like this, yet it feels no less rooted in reality than the previous three Bat-movies.
Empire overhears that we are in “Kandahar” (in fact Oxford, Michigan, about 30 minutes north of Detroit), so it appears the real-world politics provides a backdrop to super-politics. This is not Batman Forever, this is Batman for real.

Once the dust has settled, Snyder tells us that, deep down, he believes he is making a relationship movie. “In a lot of ways Batman v Superman is a very personal concept,” he insists, “It is just two people trying to understand each other’s point of view.”

Terrio’s script presents a scenario where we find Bruce Wayne confronted by the consequences of the “Black Zero” event – the in-world sobriquet for the Superman V Zod battle that ran amok through the last reel of Man of Steel. Something Snyder’s first Superman film had been criticized for – presenting all this CG carnage without blinking a super-eyelid. “What you didn’t see at the end of the movie was the effect that had on the whole world,” counters Affleck. “It’s an acknowledgment that with violence and destruction there is real human cost. What do you do with that?”

More to the point, Wayne Enterprises got caught in the carnage, with good people lost – people Bruce Wayne knew personally, people he could call family. That feeds an anger and resentment, real-world cause-and-effect working salutary echo of 9/11, instead of, say, a droll megalomaniac robot. Batman may not be coming from an entirely place. Furthermore, there is the whole dilemma about unchecked power. Affleck compare’s Batman’s thinking to a Dick Cheney rationale: “If there is a one percent chance that Superman is going to cause death in his being here, it has to be treated like an absolute certainty.”

Superman, meanwhile, consider Batman’s while judge-and-jury ethic to be little better than the crime he’s supposedly fighting. “The idea of justice at any coast is not something that he thinks is okay,” asserts Cavill, “but he wants to solve the problem in the cleanest way possible.”

Batman is willing to go, “The Chicago Way’ (an appropriate Untouchables reverence, given Metropolis was filmed in the Windy City). Vigilantism has always been part of his edgy pathology – it’s what put down the Joker and those other psychotic clowns. It gets results. So, using whatever means he has available, or might be made available by interested third parties, Batman will stop at nothing to stop Superman. As Affleck admits, “It is quite natural he be the one to cross the line.” After all, he’s the bad guy.
 
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Well duh DC. :o
 
Well they're gonna need one if their going to connect all these films together.

Plus Snyder wanted an end credit scene for Man of Steel which involved Bruce Wayne receiving a shipment of Kryptonite until Nolan shot that idea down.

And now Nolan's got nothing to do with BvS or the DCEU's films. :oldrazz:

Not really. The knightmare scene is the connection with JL.
 
You know back in Man of Steel when Superman entered the scout ship first and activated a signal that Zod and his crew intercepted.

What if others like Brainiac or Darkseid also intercepted that signal?

Well now they know that not only is the last Kryptonian on earth but he holds the knowledge of his entire species within him, including the Anti-Life Equation?

No thanks. That means it would be Superman's fault that those guys ended up on Earth.

I can get down with them losing. That would immediately set the DCEU apart from what we're seeing with Fox as well as the MCU. And it doesn't have to be a clear victory for the bad guys. Maybe losing could've been part of Batman's ultimate plan for the JL to win. Could serve as a drama beat in Part 2, with the JL dealing with not be able to trust Batman.

:up:
 
Well they're gonna need one if their going to connect all these films together.

Plus Snyder wanted an end credit scene for Man of Steel which involved Bruce Wayne receiving a shipment of Kryptonite until Nolan shot that idea down.

And now Nolan's got nothing to do with BvS or the DCEU's films. :oldrazz:

No that was what they came up with when pitching ideas for MOS2, because they mentioned Wayne that's what led to them coming up with Batman for the sequel.
 
Well they're gonna need one if their going to connect all these films together.

Plus Snyder wanted an end credit scene for Man of Steel which involved Bruce Wayne receiving a shipment of Kryptonite until Nolan shot that idea down.

And now Nolan's got nothing to do with BvS or the DCEU's films. :oldrazz:

What Snyder actually said was "What about at the end of the movie we do a scene where there’s a crate full of kryptonite delivered to Wayne Manor"

...end of the movie is pre-credits, not after.

As for connecting them together - as others have posted, multi-part serials have connections without having to spell it out – each movie can have hints and scenes that may not seem relevant at the time, will make you realise when the time is right, what they were up to!
I'm hoping, for instance, that in the Batcave there may be background references to SS members... maybe Bruce will mention the scratches on his armoured suit being made by Croc.
 
That's the difference between DC Films and Marvel.

Marvel makes stand alone movies with a few story elements to interconnect. They've created and leaned on the after-credit scene as a sort of gimmick to get people excited about what's coming.

DC Films has made it very clear that they are approaching their film Universe as a serialized drama. All movies are connected because it's one big story. Think of Lost or other serialized TV shows. Those episodes connect just fine without some after credit scene.

serialized drama or not that doesn't stop them from having an end credit scene in the first place.

Plus Snyder is in charge of the DCEU rather than Ayer, so regardless of what Ayer says that won't stop WB/DC from adding an end credit scene of let's say Wonder Woman or Justice League with or without the permission of Ayer.

Plus at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with having a few extra minutes of content, the only issue i see with it is some not wanting it because it's too similar to what Marvel is doing which i find rather absurd since studios including Warner Bros themselves have utilized end credit scenes themselves.

So there's nothing really wrong with having more content.
 
Today everyone is wearing masks, protection against the sawdust being blown into frenzies by industrial-sized fans. Affleck smirks. He may wear the famous cowl, but his contract doesn’t guarantee protection against his director’s artistic choice (it’s in the small print).

Snyder better not get Affleck killed or so help me....

:o
 
serialized drama or not that doesn't stop them from having an end credit scene in the first place.

Plus Snyder is in charge of the DCEU rather than Ayer, so regardless of what Ayer says that won't stop WB/DC from adding an end credit scene of let's say Wonder Woman or Justice League with or without the permission of Ayer.

Plus at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with having a few extra minutes of content, the only issue i see with it is some not wanting it because it's too similar to what Marvel is doing which i find rather absurd since studios including Warner Bros themselves have utilized end credit scenes themselves.

So there's nothing really wrong with having more content.

If Snyder starts doing that, then it goes against the entire concept of these being director-driven films. So I'm not buying it.

And it's not about there being something wrong with it. But it makes for a better experience in the long run to have these nods being integrated in the film. So that when you watch later films, you can be like "Ohhh...that's what that was." This is what is meant when people talk serialization. It just indicates a more thoughtful approach, not just for what comes next, but how what's happen now directly relates to what's happening later.

Watch shows like Breaking Bad or Arrested Development. You see this concept executed really well. Subtle hints that don't detract from the episode, but play out in big ways later down the line.

I don't hate end credits scenes and I look forward to them from Marvel. But if Marvel started embedding them organically within the film, I'd love the hints a lot more.
 
Justice League v Suicide Squad: Road of Revengeance :o
 
Not a doubt in my mind that he could pull it off, he sure as hell could.



Another one I could see, and they could use FX to make him tall enough.

My only thing is I ask when they do Darskeid, I hope he's like 6 foot 4-8 and nit the 20ft giant he was on Justice League War.

I also don't want him to be mute like in Justice League War.
 
I really don't think DC are going to do the post credits scenes
 
What if....

The Anti-Life equation is on earth

Justice League Part One: Kalibak and a handful of parademons and boom tubes sent to retrieve the Anti-Life equation.

Justice League formed, Kalibak defeated imprisoned on earth

Justice League Part Two: Darkseid and an army of parademons and Boom Tubes

Darkseid tries to release his son and retrieve the Anti-Life equation himself.

I like the idea of the Equation being on Earth, but I think we can do better than Kalibak. :oldrazz:

The Female Furies, Glorious Godfrey and his Justifiers, Mantis, and Steppenwolf.
 
In all honesty, that sounds like the most logical route to go. What jokesonm3 said.
 
The Female Furies, Glorious Godfrey and his Justifiers, Mantis, and Steppenwolf.
Still don't think that's enough. I would still think we need a Darkseid fight in there. He can be the villain for two, an entire movie with only his minions would be a let down
 
Or they can skip directly to Darkseid showing up on Earth and enslaving humanity.

Heroes struggling to just contain parademons, while trying not to hurt humans who have been enslaved by Darkseid.

End the film on a cliffhanger.

JL 2 - New Gods show up, maybe even Lanterns. With their help, League begins to gain the upper hand (and eventually defeat Darkseid).
 
I want two different (sets) of villains for each JL movie with different stories. I think to do Darkseid's minions in the first then Darkseid in 2 would be a mistake. Movies should stand alone.
 
In terms of Justice League: Part One and Justice League: Part Two.. I always envisioned Darkseid and his army of minions.

Now picture Darkseid, Granny Goodness, Kalibak, Desaad, Female Furies etc as all of the creatures and villains in Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit films.

Feel Darkseid's presence over the course of Part One and build up to him. Part One mainly is the preliminary invasion force, 100,000s of Parademons cascading on Earth. Kalibak and Desaad lead the first force in search of the Anti-Life Equation.

Part Two, after the Justice League defeats Kalibak & Desaad, the remaining invasion force and Darkseid himself descend on the Earth. Darkseid sends his Female Furies, led by Granny Goodness to take care of the Justice League while he personally deals with 'Earth's Champion' Superman.

Something like that anyway
 
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