All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 2

[Boy Scout]

They tried a modern take of 'Superman for all' with Superman Returns and it made $400 million WW...

Not really.

...basically people don't know what they want with Superman, they demand more 'punching', Snyder gives it to them, then they whinge about 'too much punching' so dammed either way....

That's a gross oversimplification of both movies' issues.

 

[Mandon Knight]

It's one the main 'issues' people state as a deficiency of SR and too extreme for MoS is it not ?

 

[The Batman]

Guys, you'll never please all of the people all of the time, a director and his/her crew supporting them have to make the best film of their vision for as much mass appeal as possible.

And you claimed that SR was Superman for everyone....when it clearly wasn't.

 

[Mandon Knight]

And you claimed that SR was Superman for everyone....when it clearly wasn't.

Singer clearly believed that people wanted a Donner tribute act.... that speaks for an awful lot of people whose love for the 1978 film still lives in their heart (and wallet), clearly people wanted something new, Snyder gave us MoS, which to me was perfect for these modern times and he gets butchered for taking a brave stance. As I say, any film of any genre is not going to please 100% of any given demographic on any certain time of release.

 

[shauner111]

Singer and Snyder went too extreme. Too much one way. Then too much to the other end. Somewhere in the middle would have been great.

 

[The Batman]

Singer clearly believed that people wanted a Donner tribute act.... that speaks for an awful lot of people whose love for the 1978 film still lives in their heart (and wallet), clearly people wanted something new, Snyder gave us MoS, which to me was perfect for these modern times and he gets butchered for taking a brave stance. As I say, any film of any genre is not going to please 100% of any given demographic on any certain time of release.

There's nothing brave about trying to recreate the success of the Dark Knight Trilogy.

At the end of the day, people need to realize that the problem isn't tone or trying to bring back Donner Superman. Dark, gritty movies work. So called "Tribute acts" can work. At the end of the day, both Snyder and Singer executed their films in a flawed manner.

 

[Boy Scout]

It's one the main 'issues' people state as a deficiency of SR and too extreme for MoS is it not ?

You're oversimplifying the issues people have with both movies by dumbing them down to "too much punching!" and "not enough punching!"

 

[writer0327]

You're oversimplifying the issues people have with both movies by dumbing them down to "too much punching!" and "not enough punching!"

He is right though, it was one of the main complaints about SR. MoS was more to do with story structure and a dispassionate Superman.

Why can't DC just take the tone of S:TAS and make a Superman film similar to that? I always felt that was a very solid "modern" Superman that had plenty of action and well conceived stories and villains.

 

[Bagide]

You're oversimplifying the issues people have with both movies by dumbing them down to "too much punching!" and "not enough punching!"

Basically yeah

 

[BH/HHH]

Singer clearly believed that people wanted a Donner tribute act.... that speaks for an awful lot of people whose love for the 1978 film still lives in their heart (and wallet), clearly people wanted something new, Snyder gave us MoS, which to me was perfect for these modern times and he gets butchered for taking a brave stance. As I say, any film of any genre is not going to please 100% of any given demographic on any certain time of release.

TBH though my biggest complaint about Singer's attempt to recreate the Donnerverse was that the characters just didn't feel like the same people. Sure they were different actors but you'd think for a guy who claims to love STM he'd have actually had them written to be like the same characters. I still don't know why Singer didn't just do a remake for better or worse at least he wouldn't have had scenes recreated from the original that didn't quite fit into a supposed sequel.

 

[titansupes]

MoS didn't get trashed for taking a brave stance (referring to the largely pointless neck snap, I assume?), it got trashed for having large deficiencies in its characters, plot and structure etc.

 

[Slade W]

They tried a modern take of 'Superman for all' with Superman Returns and it made $400 million WW, basically people don't know what they want with Superman, they demand more 'punching', Snyder gives it to them, then they whinge about 'too much punching' so dammed either way....

So, you believe it is the fans and movie-goers fault for these movies poor-mixed reception and them not being as financially successful as WB would like and not the directors fault?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

MoS didn't get trashed for taking a brave stance (referring to the largely pointless neck snap, I assume?), it got trashed for having large deficiencies in its characters, plot and structure etc.

The neck snap never bothered me. Zod was going to kill those people if Superman didn't, and he clearly hated doing it. His hand was forced, much like Batman killing Dent in TDK.

 

[Slade W]

The neck snap never bothered me. Zod was going to kill those people if Superman didn't, and he clearly hated doing it. His hand was forced, much like Batman killing Dent in TDK.

Same here.

 

[BH/HHH]

The neck snap never bothered me. Zod was going to kill those people if Superman didn't, and he clearly hated doing it. His hand was forced, much like Batman killing Dent in TDK.

Exactly, I get so frustrated when people say he should have found another way or they shouldn't have written Superman into that situation.

 

[titansupes]

The neck snap never bothered me. Zod was going to kill those people if Superman didn't, and he clearly hated doing it. His hand was forced, much like Batman killing Dent in TDK.

It doesn't bother me in principle either. I agree-- He did what he had to do (although, it could've been staged much better). But that was based on the assumption that it was going somewhere in the sequel, and it just didn't. Combine that with being pretty pointless to his arc in the movie (there was nothing about him really treasuring all life and thus being forced to kill was the ultimate test/failure/whatever). The only thing it maybe kinda sorta touches on was his choosing humans over Kryptonians... Which was already accomplished with the Phantom Zone and the "Krypton had its chance!" moment.

My problem isn't that he killed someone. It's that it was kind of poorly staged and it served no actual purpose to the story.

 

[Micromind]

It doesn't bother me in principle either. I agree-- He did what he had to do (although, it could've been staged much better). But that was based on the assumption that it was going somewhere in the sequel, and it just didn't. Combine that with being pretty pointless to his arc in the movie (there was nothing about him really treasuring all life and thus being forced to kill was the ultimate test/failure/whatever). The only thing it maybe kinda sorta touches on was his choosing humans over Kryptonians... Which was already accomplished with the Phantom Zone and the "Krypton had its chance!" moment.

My problem isn't that he killed someone. It's that it was kind of poorly staged and it served no actual purpose to the story.

In MoS he did treasure life, as he saved school bully from drowning and he saved those Oil Rig workers from fire on the Oil Rig.

Its not as if he never saved anyone's life but suddenly felt bad about killing Zod, when he himself never cared about anyone.

Even in BvS, Superman is shown saving people in Montage, like he saves those inside the spacecraft as Rocket carrying it explodes shortly after lift-off, then he is shown pulling the Oil Tanker ship to the shore in Arctic and we can see other sailors sitting on the ship.

 

[OutOfBoose]

In MoS he did treasure life, as he saved school bully from drowning and he saved those Oil Rig workers from fire on the Oil Rig.

Its not as if he never saved anyone's life but suddenly felt bad about killing Zod, when he himself never cared about anyone.

Those were innocent people. Yes, even school bullies. Why does Superman suddenly cry about a maniac killer?

 

[The Guard]

Because it hurt him to have to kill.

 

[Bagide]

Those were innocent people. Yes, even school bullies. Why does Superman suddenly cry about a maniac killer?

He didn't want to. He was forced to do so, he just saved lives not judge whom is a maniac or not. "You're a monster Zod and I'm gonna stop you"..he didn't say KILL.

 

[Limonade]

Because it hurt him to have to kill.

Unless they are terrorist who hold Lois Lane captive, right? F them guys.

 

[titansupes]

In MoS he did treasure life, as he saved school bully from drowning and he saved those Oil Rig workers from fire on the Oil Rig.

Its not as if he never saved anyone's life but suddenly felt bad about killing Zod, when he himself never cared about anyone.

Even in BvS, Superman is shown saving people in Montage, like he saves those inside the spacecraft as Rocket carrying it explodes shortly after lift-off, then he is shown pulling the Oil Tanker ship to the shore in Arctic and we can see other sailors sitting on the ship.

Yeah, he saved incidental civilians and whatnot, just like any superhero. He wanted to help people his whole life, obviously. Bit there was nothing about his refusal to take life/use only non-lethal force. Was his being forced to kill Zod set up throughout? What changed for Superman as a result of the act?

 

[The Guard]

There's no rule that everything that happens in a film has to be broadcast or set up prior to it happening. While it would be nice to see it have an impact on his character or part of an arc, nothing has to change. It wouldn't necessarily make narrative sense for him to swear of killing after they've just showed that he may have to do so sometimes (he does so again in BVS with Doomsday). He's allowed to just feel awful about what happened and recognize the burden of what he does. It also served to help him and Lois bond as she comforted him.

 

[The Guard]

Unless they are terrorist who hold Lois Lane captive, right? F them guys.

The terrorists who he later says "I didn't kill those men" about?

 

[Limonade]

He didn't want to. He was forced to do so, he just saved lives not judge whom is a maniac or not. "You're a monster Zod and I'm gonna stop you"..he didn't say KILL.

Which is why it took me, and probably some kids in the theater, aback when it went down with Zod's death.

No one thought murder was in Superman's train of thought. I would of bought that scene, if Superman was mortally wounded or somehow incapacitated temporarily.

But Superman had the "high ground" and still chose to kill.