Discussion in 'DC Comics Films' started by Thread Manager, Apr 6, 2018.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]535463[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]527015[/split]
This is why, If you want to make a shared universe, you need someone at the top like Feige in charge.
I cannot fathom why anyone thought that having an old, veteran Batman was a good idea for a character that surely, you want for a new Batman trilogy and JL trilogy.
It just shuts the door on so many potential stories. Imagine if Thor had started off as King Thor in the first movie. Eye missing,Mjolnir already destroyed.
Start Batman at his most simple and basic. Then you have so much more leeway.
Thats the only reason I was against Affleck as Batman from the start. Initially I thought it was a great idea because I was a fan of his and thought hed knock it out of the park, but then it dawned on me how shortsighted that is from a cinematic universe perspective.
In all honesty, Im just surprised that one of the suits at WB didnt quash the idea. From a business stand point, starting with an old Batman surely rung alarm bells.
Although saying that, Affleck was WBs golden child at the time so they probably were just happy that they got him when he was at (was probably) his most valuable.
They probably figured they could position Affleck as the DCEU's Robert Downey Jr. (who was 41 at the time he was cast as Iron Man). They saw what RDJ was doing over at Marvel and thought, "Oh, we can get away with an older actor."
Turns out their situations aren't very comparable though. All RDJ has to do is show up in a mo-cap suit and let the SFX guys work their magic for the most part, whereas Batman is a more physically demanding role that sort of requires the actor stay in shape.
Not to mention that Affleck is an Academy-award winning director and screenwriter. Even if the DCEU were a rousing success, I never saw him spending most of his time over the next decade making multiple appearances in a cape and cowl. Marvel lucked out with Downey being so willing and able to play ball over the past few years because I think most actors would have thrown the towel in a long time ago to pursue other projects, let alone someone with two Oscars on their mantle.
That's not a huge problem necessarily, but it clearly isn't someone you want playing your most profitable character. I never thought he'd stick around.
I have no problem with Affleck as Batman circa BvS, as I still think his performance in BvS was very good (we can argue the content and how Batman was written...but Affleck did a good job with the material). But, Affleck also clearly didn't show up for JL (and it is PAINFULLY obvious). That is my current problem with Affleck as Batman. He sort of just mentally checked out, which is good for nobody. Say what we will about Cavill, but I always feel like he is doing his best and giving it his all (just focusing on the performance). I think that is what a true professional does: shows up and does their best even when they don't care. I get Affleck being unhappy, wanting out, all that. Still, you're a professional. Go out there and TRY! I am not asking for an academt award worthy effort every film. Even Tom Brady has a bad passing performance sometimes. But, I want to feel effort.
It is fortunate that RDJ seems to have a special place in his heart for Iron Man and th MCU in general.
I know people give him a lot of flack for the MCU being so Iron Man centric, but really, the MCU and fans lucked out that such a good actor was willing to put so much of his time into this whole thing.
You need an actor who is like RDJ. An actor who needs a chance a shot at redemption much like how Iron Man back in 2008 was RDJ's comeback his shot at redemption because he had a bad boy past fiddled with alcohol and drugs. You need an actor like that in the DCEU well one who could use a shot at redemption and they could be a comeback story much like how RDJ was for the MCU when it first started out.
It's crazy how much he dropped off in just those two movies. In spite of my problems with his BvS performance (Liked him as Bruce, but I don't think he did all that well under the cowl), I ranked him as the third best live-action Batman. JL Affleck? Rock bottom. Even after Clooney, who at least exuded his natural charm.
BvS and JL Batman are almost two completely different characters, to the point of pure distraction.
"I don't.... not like you..."
That kid's dad was a human trafficker. Literally the scum of the Earth. Not saying it doesn't suck for that family, or that those methods weren't extreme, but that man was literally trafficking innocent victims to do god knows what.
I'm still sort of mystified why Affleck took this role. I mean after years and years, his career had finally recovered. Affleck was seen as this legitimate director and filmmaker now. He said he would never take a role like Daredevil ever again. And then this. Affleck was at a point in his career where he really didn't need to do things like Batman anymore.
Yeah. It sucks that the kid was crying over losing his dad, but maybe don't have the guy be guilty of such a heinous crime if you want us to sympathize.
"My husband trafficked innocent people for God only knows what purpose, and some would say that he got what was coming to him, but let's talk about how much of a monster Batman is."
You see Bruce Timm and Paul Dini knew how to do this. It was the flashback episode in The New Batman Adventures where we found out what caused the break-up of Dick and Bruce.
Bruce was getting rough with a low-level thug who worked for one of the rogues, I think it was Joker. He was doing it in front of his wife and young son, who didn't know anything about it. The whole thing made Dick angry and soured him on Bruce. Granted, Bruce didn't kill or brand the guy. At the end, we see despite what happened Bruce made amends by helping the man and got him a job and helped him go straight.
My point is, you can show Batman sort of straddling that line and it causing problems with those who are close to him but not having him go full bore psycho. Because you don't have the guy who is like "My Batman could get violated in prison" in charge.
Its not often we agree on the DCEU Flint, but we certainly agree here, after my initial excitement died down and I thought about it, going with an older Batman for a shared universe definitely cane across as short sighted.
Yeah have to agree on this as well.
Affleck took the role because he wanted to. Hes a huge Batman fan. As an actor, I can say that Id happily play any of my favorite characters if given the opportunity.
I mean, not if Zack Snyder was directing, but whatever.
A shared DC Universe also probably looked really good on paper, especially when everyone saw how crazy successful Marvel was. It was the execution that ended up crashing the franchise.
I think a bit much is made of Batman being "old" in this franchise, in terms of how it actually affects the character. It's more about the events he's been through, the grind of crimefighting, and the impact it has had on his psyche.
Affleck's Batman was supposed to be what, 45ish? That's older, but he's not exactly elderly.
And this is Batman we're talking about, not a typical person. He's incredibly skilled at pretty much any age. He certainly doesn't seem to have lost much of a step physically in this franchise.
If the issue is that people wanted stories with a younger Batman...stories in a solo franchise could be/could easily be/have been set earlier, and Affleck could have fairly easily pulled that off for several more years. They didn't really limit themselves that much in terms of storytelling potential.
I don't mind Affleck being his age when he signed up for Batman, cause it was obvious that younger stuntmen were hired to do all the heavy action stuff.
I'm still uncertain whether he actually retired the role of Batman or not for a while after the death of Robin.
It's easy to say money, but Affleck was at a new career peak and doing incredibly well. Like I doubt he was having money problems. I mean I know he was going through marital issues and all. But how much more money would he really need from all that?
I guess my point is, Affleck appeared to be at a point in his career where money was no longer an issue and he salvaged his career and became a highly respected director.
They made him older because Zack Snyder wanted Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns.