All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 2

[The Guard]

It's because they found a formula that works, and because people historically embrace the familiar and easy to understand. Most of the Marvel stories tend to be fairly traditional in their structure, and perhaps a bit generic in terms of plot beyond the more unique elements of the relevant mythologies.

Make no mistake, it's worked well for Marvel, and the DCEU is moving in that direction with its MacGuffin-heavy storyline in JUSTICE LEAGUE. Things are going to be a lot more straightforward from here on out. At least in the team up films. Maybe Matt Reeves' THE BATMAN will be a departure.

 

[misslane38]

I don't think anyone would be against just ignoring BvS and the other two garbage films

I don't get this mentality. The past is in the past. No amount of moving forward with blinders on about that past or with a reboot that erases or changes that past is going to change how the people who disliked the films felt when they first saw the movies or the Rotten Tomatoes scores. It also presumes that some of the past elements in the films that people disliked would still have any ongoing onscreen significance to the storytelling moving forward.

Any ignoring of the past or changing of it is, in a sense, already being accomplished by having the characters grow and change and move on to become the "better" versions of themselves that some prefer and by having new directors and writers come in to construct stories with more superficial alterations, like jokes, color, pacing, that ignoring the past and retcons/reboots don't affect. As a result, I am unconvinced that anything drastic needs to be done or that something of that sort could be done without causing more problems and production headaches.

 

[BH/HHH]

It's because they found a formula that works, and because people historically embrace the familiar and easy to understand. Most of the Marvel stories tend to be fairly traditional in their structure, and perhaps a bit generic in terms of plot beyond the more unique elements of the relevant mythologies.

Make no mistake, it's worked well for Marvel, and the DCEU is moving in that direction with its MacGuffin-heavy storyline in JUSTICE LEAGUE. Things are going to be a lot more straightforward from here on out. At least in the team up films. Maybe Matt Reeves' THE BATMAN will be a departure.

Oh I know it does and if I were in the same business I would totally do the same were I in charge. But for me personally I'm getting a bit bored of it.

 

[The Guard]

The thing about this "reboot" idea is that it's kind of vague. No one seems able to articulate which specific things need to be Flashpointed that can't simply be corrected moving forward. There's a story solution to pretty much any issue people had with BVS.

 

[Erzengel]

If Batman shows up in MOS2 or vice versa, I want them to just affirm that they know each other. Not any of the history of BvS or JL. That's not necessarily a reboot.

 

[idiot09]

If Batman shows up in MOS2 or vice versa, I want them to just affirm that they know each other. Not any of the history of BvS or JL. That's not necessarily a reboot.

Only if the story asks for it, ala Logan.

But lets see what happens. After all Geoff Johns and co are still headlining everything, and I'm sure they will try their best to keep everything consistent.

 

[misslane38]

If Batman shows up in MOS2 or vice versa, I want them to just affirm that they know each other. Not any of the history of BvS or JL. That's not necessarily a reboot.

Why do you want this? What do you imagine would happen if they did appear in each other's movies with that history? How would the story or interaction between them refer to or utilize it in a way that would be so unappealing that it would need to be avoided?

 

[Boy Scout]

It's because they found a formula that works, and because people historically embrace the familiar and easy to understand.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get old for some of us after a while. I rarely watch their movies because of their formula. I'm comfortable being in the minority of unimpressed.

In theory, I think the DCEU has the right idea with their filmmaker driven approach.

Things are going to be a lot more straightforward from here on out.

The issue was never about not being straightforward, though. If that's what they took from DOJ's reception, then they've learned nothing.

 

[Erzengel]

Why do you want this? What do you imagine would happen if they did appear in each other's movies with that history? How would the story or interaction between them refer to or utilize it in a way that would be so unappealing that it would need to be avoided?

Depends.

The Batman and MOS 2 would be their own stories, not necessarily any team ups but glorified cameos. But if say, Batman has to go to Metropolis and it's a quick scene of, "You should call before you come into my City, Bruce." "I'll be in and out before you know it, Clark." I'd be fine with that. Something akin to the Flash showing up in SS.

 

[BH/HHH]

Depends.

The Batman and MOS 2 would be their own stories, not necessarily any team ups but glorified cameos. But if say, Batman has to go to Metropolis and it's a quick scene of, "You should call before you come into my City, Bruce." "I'll be in and out before you know it, Clark." I'd be fine with that. Something akin to the Flash showing up in SS.

The Flash "No honour among thieves".

Yeah I'd be fine with something like that too

 

[The Joker]

I don't think anyone would be against just ignoring BvS and the other two garbage films

I concur.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I don't think that's a fault of continuity, though. Marvel deliberately insists on things looking and feeling the same.

Which is part of the problem why I hate the MCU SO much.

 

[misslane38]

Depends.

The Batman and MOS 2 would be their own stories, not necessarily any team ups but glorified cameos. But if say, Batman has to go to Metropolis and it's a quick scene of, "You should call before you come into my City, Bruce." "I'll be in and out before you know it, Clark." I'd be fine with that. Something akin to the Flash showing up in SS.

Well, I'd rather they not appear in each other's solo movies at all, and I don't see the point of glorified cameos like the one described above. Having Black Widow or other Avengers have cameo or major roles in so-called solo films is one of the things about MCU movies that I dislike. I'd rather they avoid too much crossover, personally. The only one I'm okay with so far is Superman in a Shazam movie.

Also, your previous post mentioned that you didn't want their history from BvS or JL specifically addressed or brought into scenes, but I still don't understand why. What is your worst case scenario that you're trying to avoid? Why is this important to you?

As an aside, I can't imagine any Superman, not even this one who would presumably make further amends with Bruce in JL ever saying something like "Call before you come into my city," not even as a joke, really.

 

[Mandon Knight]

To a certain degree, a studio would look at a cinematic universe with the aim of crossover potential, otherwise, they would argue what's the point ? Further, it could be argued by having an appearance from character X in character Y's own film it negates the old 'why didn't so and so turn up and help him/her in that battle ?

Personally, I've a tendency to agree with miss lane, it devalues the worth to a point of character to drop in and out but for a substantiated worth or point, it may be worth a consideration.

 

[Erzengel]

Also, your previous post mentioned that you didn't want their history from BvS or JL specifically addressed or brought into scenes, but I still don't understand why. What is your worst case scenario that you're trying to avoid? Why is this important to you?

I know a lot can change in 8 months. In theory, WW and JL can produce features that are more mass appealing. However, if they can't or if they are at best mediocre/divisive. Instead of rebooting, I think "ignoring" would be easier way to move forward.

That way, Batman and Superman don't have to be linear character returns in terms of representation to those in BvS & JL.

As an aside, I can't imagine any Superman, not even this one who would presumably make further amends with Bruce in JL ever saying something like "Call before you come into my city," not even as a joke, really.

 

[idiot09]

The issue was never about not being straightforward, though. If that's what they took from DOJ's reception, then they've learned nothing.

TBF without starting another debate, a lot of people had issues with BvS right? However Ive seen different people have different issues.

Among the many problems different people had were plotting, tone, character issues, coherency etc. I saw all these problems pop up for people. To say only one of these are a valid issue is not really accurate I think. If they are being more straightforward with their plotting, it would help the coherency of the movie, which definetely was a complaint for BvS's theatrical cut. People did complain it tried to do too much, so a straigtforward story does address some complaints. They are also trying to get the characters more towards their iconic representations and lighten the tone(and this was also a problem for some people). So its not just one issue people have with these films, and I think they are gonna try to "improve" on various fronts.

 

[BH/HHH]

Man I need to read that again soon

 

[Boy Scout]

TBF without starting another debate, a lot of people had issues with BvS right? However Ive seen different people have different issues.

Among the many problems different people had were plotting, tone, character issues, coherency etc. I saw all these problems pop up for people. To say only one of these are a valid issue is not really accurate I think. If they are being more straightforward with their plotting, it would help the coherency of the movie, which definetely was a complaint for BvS's theatrical cut. People did complain it tried to do too much, so a straigtforward story does address some complaints. They are also trying to get the characters more towards their iconic representations and lighten the tone(and this was also a problem for some people). So its not just one issue people have with these films, and I think they are gonna try to "improve" on various fronts.

Non-linear stories can and do work. BB is a great example of that. The problems people had with DOJ can't and won't be resolved by simply making the films more linear. The issues people have with the film come down to the writing, direction, and studio interference. THOSE are the real problems. So, no, a commitment to telling straightforward stories probably isn't going to solve anything. We need to attack the virus, not the symptoms.

 

[idiot09]

Non-linear stories can and do work. BB is a great example of that. The problems people had with DOJ can't and won't be resolved by simply making the films more linear. The issues people have with the film come down to the writing, direction, and studio interference. THOSE are the real problems. So, no, a commitment to telling straightforward stories probably isn't going to solve anything. We need to attack the virus, not the symptoms.

Ofcourse non-linear stories work. But there is a difference between non-linear stories and incoherent stories with too many plotlines stuffed in. The story in BvS wasnt non linear. That was valid criticism of the theatrical cut, and even a fan like me can admit that. And if they are making JL more straightforward and focused, then thats good. Nothing to do with non linear storytelling.

 

[Boy Scout]

Ofcourse non-linear stories work. But there is a difference between non-linear stories and incoherent stories with too many plotlines stuffed in. The story in BvS wasnt non linear. That was valid criticism of the theatrical cut, and even a fan like me can admit that. And if they are making JL more straightforward and focused, then thats good. Nothing to do with non linear storytelling.

So like I said: the issue is with the writing, direction, and studio interference. A simpler story doesn't guarantee a better story, nor does it mean that all of the things that made DOJ a "mess" will magically disappear. Minimizing those problems < getting rid of them altogether.

 

[idiot09]

Woah they just moved Aquaman to December 2018.

http://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-p...hristmas-2018/

 

[idiot09]

So like I said: the issue is with the writing, direction, and studio interference. A simpler story doesn't guarantee a better story, nor does it mean that all of the things that made DOJ a "mess" will magically disappear. Minimizing those problems < getting rid of them altogether.

Dude why are you talking in absolutes? Never have I said ,making the movie a bit more straightforward and focused will get rid of all problems. All I'm saying is if the plotting is more focused, and is not incoherent, thats better. Because that was an issue for BvS, and im glad to see they are learning from it.

 

[Erzengel]

Woah they just moved Aquaman to December 2018.

http://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-p...hristmas-2018/

Which means either there's only one movie coming out in 2018? Or are they going to fast track Sirens to July or October?

 

[idiot09]

Which means either there's only one movie coming out in 2018? Or are they going to fast track Sirens to July or October?

Looks like only one movie for 2018. Strange to have only one movie, and that too at the end of the year. Oh well, atleast they are not rushing.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm glad they aren't rushing. What I'm curious is, what have they've been doing?

Is this all fallout from BvS and SS?