All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 2

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Google "Superman kills Zod in the comics" or the storyline called "The Price".

It's a very well known part of Superman's modern lore. He literally executes the Kryptonian criminals with Kryptonite.

This event was followed by an equally famous storyline called SUPERMAN: EXHILE, where Superman felt so bad about what he had done that he left Earth. EXHILE includes a very well known storyline with the villain Mongul where Superman fought in gladitorial matches on Warworld, a storyline that was adapted on Justice League the animated series, and has been adapted on SUPERGIRL, and which later informed the Superman AND Green Lantern mythologies, because Mongul returned after Superman's death and return and sought to destroy Superman's adopted homeworld as part of the Reign of the Superman/Return of Superman storyline.

Here it is:

Spoiler

Yep, it's not an obscure story at all, and impacted the character for years after. Exhile is also a damn good story just for the record. Which followed on directly from Superman killing Zod and his cronies. Exhile introduced both Mongul and The Eradicator. 2 pretty significant characters in Supermans mythology.

 

[BH/HHH]

Justin Kroll is saying The Batman will not make a 2018 release date, Matt Reeves will still be to busy working on Apes. Production however, will most likely start in 2018.

Oh I never thought it would make it anyway. 2019 for the Batman I feel is the most likely. Hopefully along with a Vaugh directed Superman film in the same year (probably more likely 2020-21 for Supes though).

I still think Gotham City Sirens could potentially make 2018 though.

 

[Boy Scout]

Which part?

The part where you denied the cherry picking.

Superman (generally) is not a character who kills. He's done it a few times, but he's taken an active stance against it for the vast majority of his history. Whatever examples you cite to the contrary are the cherry picked exceptions, not the rule. This wasn't a debate before MOS was a thing, and it's one of the many reasons I dislike the movie.

In regards to the story itself: I'm not interested in discussing the impact it had in the books after its publication. I'm discussing its relevance in the much wider of context of, "Does Superman kill?" And the answer is no.

 

[Dasher10]

Ow. First Flash gets delayed, now Batman? And these are DC's A-listers who have perennial comic titles. Aquaman is the only film hitting in 2018. Keep in mind that in 2018 is the year when Marvel Studios are releasing Black Panther, Infinity War and Ant-Man and the Wasp while Fox are releasing Deadpool 2, New Mutants and X-Men: Supernova. That's six Marvel films to one DC film in a so far underwhelming universe.

Keep in mind that Superfriends ruined Aquaman's reputation so if either Wonder Woman or Justice League is a flop, expect Aquaman to also fail regardless of quality.

 

[mat-chow]

Ow. First Flash gets delayed, now Batman? And these are DC's A-listers who have perennial comic titles. Aquaman is the only film hitting in 2018. Keep in mind that in 2018 is the year when Marvel Studios are releasing Black Panther, Infinity War and Ant-Man and the Wasp while Fox are releasing Deadpool 2, New Mutants and X-Men: Supernova. That's six Marvel films to one DC film in a so far underwhelming universe.

Keep in mind that Superfriends ruined Aquaman's reputation so if either Wonder Woman or Justice League is a flop, expect Aquaman to also fail regardless of quality.

Thanks

 

[Saint]

Yep, it's not an obscure story at all, and impacted the character for years after. Exhile is also a damn good story just for the record. Which followed on directly from Superman killing Zod and his cronies. Exhile introduced both Mongul and The Eradicator. 2 pretty significant characters in Supermans mythology.

Yeah, this is hardly obscure. Even Roger Stern's novelization of The Death and Life of Superman talks about this event (the book was absolutely laden with Byrne-era Superman continuity). He really focused on framing it primarily as a matter of Superman being the last person with the moral authority to judge Kryptonian criminals.

Hell, Superman killed Doomsday, too. Earth-1 Superman killed the Anti-Monitor. There are definitely examples of Superman killing.

For clarity, I don't believe Superman should have a body count. But I also don't necessarily have an extreme problem with Superman killing Zod, depending on the circumstances. I do have a problem with the context surrounding the whole event in Man of Steel. I think if you write the right story that contextualizes these actions properly for the character, then I'll give you a lot of leeway.

 

[Bagide]

Ow. First Flash gets delayed, now Batman? And these are DC's A-listers who have perennial comic titles. Aquaman is the only film hitting in 2018. Keep in mind that in 2018 is the year when Marvel Studios are releasing Black Panther, Infinity War and Ant-Man and the Wasp while Fox are releasing Deadpool 2, New Mutants and X-Men: Supernova. That's six Marvel films to one DC film in a so far underwhelming universe.

Keep in mind that Superfriends ruined Aquaman's reputation so if either Wonder Woman or Justice League is a flop, expect Aquaman to also fail regardless of quality.

Won't you complain when WB releases rushed movies? Should DC release movies cause Marvel is doing so? Is Aquaman a sequel to JL or WW so that how it performs? Different directors and writers for each movie. Blanket opinion on your end.

 

[GothamBat]

http://screenrant.com/dceu-movies-critics-wrong/

Great article from screenrant on the DCEU and why it shouldn't change to please the critics

 

[The Whizzer]

http://screenrant.com/dceu-movies-critics-wrong/

Great article from screenrant on the DCEU and why it shouldn't change to please the critics

This is adorable.

 

[Flint Marko]

Not gonna waste my time reading that, but is it perpetuating any of "teh critics are biased against DC" nonsense that has been refuted a dozen times over around here?

 

[The Guard]

Yep, it's not an obscure story at all, and impacted the character for years after. Exhile is also a damn good story just for the record. Which followed on directly from Superman killing Zod and his cronies. Exhile introduced both Mongul and The Eradicator. 2 pretty significant characters in Supermans mythology.

Ah, yes, I forgot about The Eradicator, Superman's new shaving device.

 

[The Guard]

The part where you denied the cherry picking.

Is there a reason you couldn't just say this, instead of labeling the entire post "hogwash"?

Superman (generally) is not a character who kills. He's done it a few times, but he's taken an active stance against it for the vast majority of his history. Whatever examples you cite to the contrary are the cherry picked exceptions, not the rule. This wasn't a debate before MOS was a thing, and it's one of the many reasons I dislike the movie.

There wasn't a debate as to whether Superman had occassionally killed prior to MOS, or whether he should?

Because that's...not exactly true. Fans have debated pretty much everything about every character since...ever.

I don't think Superman himself has ever felt like he "should" in this universe, except maybe Doomsday. And it's not like the filmmakers have portrayed him as someone for who this is a good option, either. Seeing as how his reaction to doing so in MOS was shock and misery.

I never said it was the "rule", by the way. It was included in the mythology specifically because it ISN'T the rule. But it was included in the mythology nontheless.

Question. Exactly how are you not "cherry picking" scenarios where Superman doesn't kill?

In regards to the story itself: I'm not interested in discussing the impact it had in the books after its publication. I'm discussing its relevance in the much wider of context of, "Does Superman kill?" And the answer is no.

Except that he clearly does with some versions of the character. Especially Doomsday and Zod in modern Superman mythology. I really don't think, in a larger discussion about Superman and his mythology that you can ignore 20 years of comics history just because you feel like it.

I'm not sure how often he killed Pre-Crisis, but I'm hard pressed to see all those Nazis and others he fought surviving...

 

[Pickleweasel]

Ow. First Flash gets delayed, now Batman? And these are DC's A-listers who have perennial comic titles. Aquaman is the only film hitting in 2018. Keep in mind that in 2018 is the year when Marvel Studios are releasing Black Panther, Infinity War and Ant-Man and the Wasp while Fox are releasing Deadpool 2, New Mutants and X-Men: Supernova. That's six Marvel films to one DC film in a so far underwhelming universe.

Keep in mind that Superfriends ruined Aquaman's reputation so if either Wonder Woman or Justice League is a flop, expect Aquaman to also fail regardless of quality.

How does a movie with no release date get delayed?

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Not gonna waste my time reading that, but is it perpetuating any of "teh critics are biased against DC" nonsense that has been refuted a dozen times over around here?

What's interesting is Marvel's Iron Fist is getting not so good reviews, and is becoming the worst reviewed thing coming out of Marvel Studios in along time.

what does it's star Finn Jones say?

“These shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans,”

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

What's interesting is Marvel's Iron Fist is getting not so good reviews, and is becoming the worst reviewed thing coming out of Marvel Studios in along time.

what does it's star Finn Jones say?

“These shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans,”

Which was a stupid thing to say and made him sound like a whiner. What's your point?

 

[misslane38]

Look, if you're not going to read the article, don't talk about it or use a strawman version of it to launch into old arguments.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Which was a stupid thing to say and made him sound like a whiner. What's your point?

Yeah, I hate that excuse. I hate it used in Fant4stic, I hate it used in BVS and SS, and I hate it here too.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

It's not an excuse it's reality. If critics hate a movie and audiences love it only one of those groups brings in money to the studios.

 

[Timebomb]

Which was a stupid thing to say and made him sound like a whiner. What's your point?

Yeah, he's getting a lot of @#$% for saying it as well. So, I'm not sure what noname is trying to say.

 

[The Joker]

The part where you denied the cherry picking.

Superman (generally) is not a character who kills. He's done it a few times, but he's taken an active stance against it for the vast majority of his history. Whatever examples you cite to the contrary are the cherry picked exceptions, not the rule. This wasn't a debate before MOS was a thing, and it's one of the many reasons I dislike the movie.

In regards to the story itself: I'm not interested in discussing the impact it had in the books after its publication. I'm discussing its relevance in the much wider of context of, "Does Superman kill?" And the answer is no.

Well said.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Yeah, he's getting a lot of @#$% for saying it as well. So, I'm not sure what noname is trying to say.

Critics don't got an agenda to promote Marvel and bash DC, a Marvel property can come out and get a negative response.

Also the defense of "its for the fans" was used by David Ayer in response to negative Suicide Squad reviews

The movie is good, the movie has a great heart and the movie is made for the fans,” he continued. “I think they know that and they see that. There’s nothing wrong with having a big, fun summer movie.”
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/film/suicid...er-says-fans-don-t-876905#rRYVZv1tQjMJeMhC.99


And Henry Cavill after BVS reviews came in

“I know that Zack [Snyder] doesn’t make the movies, or none of us, are making the movies for the critics. You can’t go into it with that perspective


It's a response that always comes up when something gets bad reviews

 

[Samuron]

Superman (generally) is not a character who kills. He's done it a few times, but he's taken an active stance against it for the vast majority of his history. Whatever examples you cite to the contrary are the cherry picked exceptions, not the rule.

Moreover, even if one argues there is precedent for being forced into killing Zod or other extreme foes, that still doesn't justify his killing the guy in BvS.

He had a lot of options; the most obvious to me is heat-raying the guy's gun arm off. Instead, he thinks about it, gets a little smile on his face, and takes the guy out.

That's not being forced into anything; that's premeditated.

 

[misslane38]

Moreover, even if one argues there is precedent for being forced into killing Zod or other extreme foes, that still doesn't justify his killing the guy in BvS.

He had a lot of options; the most obvious to me is heat-raying the guy's gun arm off. Instead, he thinks about it, gets a little smile on his face, and takes the guy out.

That's not being forced into anything; that's premeditated.

He didn't kill in BvS.

 

[2kt09]

He had a lot of options; the most obvious to me is heat-raying the guy's gun arm off.

Sounds more like what Hancock would do.

 

[Samuron]

Also the defense of "its for the fans" was used by David Ayer in response to negative Suicide Squad reviews

While I admit it sounds lame, I would point out that a Netflix series is not at all the same thing as a major motion picture.

A Netflix series can take those fan service chances; it's not like anyone had to pay extra to see them. So, even though it sounds like an excuse in Finn's case, it's more reasonable in the context of Iron Fist.