All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation

[The Joker]

That swearing was not harmless, it was meant as an insult.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34692029&postcount=786

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34688295&postcount=673

 

[MbJ]

I like what Alan Moore said:
Idea that artist should provoke and shake their audience's world-views, no to pander to them.

And the audience doesn't have to like what the artist gives them.

That swearing was not harmless, it was meant as an insult.

In what world is crap swearing?

 

[Consona]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34692029&postcount=786

In what world is crap swearing?

Crap is not vulgar? Ok...

I got infraction for using word "bull s h * t". I thought s h * t and crap are rather similar in meaning, seems I was wrong.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34688295&postcount=673

And I apologize for that. People can change, don't you think?

And the audience doesn't have to like what the artist gives them.

Sure.

 

[idiot09]

That's not what I'm saying. You never do something just because you think your audience wants it. When that happens you get a Venom in Spider-Man 3 type scenario. What you're claiming is Snyder makes movies for himself, and is not keeping his audience in mind. A good director carries out his own vision but at the same time remembers that he is also making this for audiences, not himself.



I don't care what Tarsem Singh says. Snyder's ability to handle criticisms has not showed through in any outlet I have ever seen. That's all that counts. What we see in his responses to it, not what someone else telling us hearsay from years ago. Snyder could well have changed since his school days, and judging by his responses to criticism towards his movies, he has.

If you keep your audience in mind, you fall into the trap of "what will the audience think". You cant go, "im executing my own vision, but lets think about what the audience will think though". Ofcourse the studio thinks about the audience and to a certain degree directors and writers do too, but if you take it too much into account, it can bring trouble. I think making the movie you would want to see is a valid approach. If you disagree with that, then cool. I dont thin they are like "**** audience ill do it for myself" more like "rather than second guess the audience, make the movie I would like to see, and hope that would extend to other people".


And about the taking criticism part, he has been very dignified about all the criticism for BvS, has taken it in his chin, and is going full steam ahead with JL. He has said, he has heard the complaints, and is trying his best to make JL the best movie he can. The MOS one is one example you give, but he has always taken criticism to movies like Watchmen, Sucker Punch very sportingly. Everyone who works with him say the same, and I see the same whenever I see him in his interviews.


Thats all I have to say in that matter. I have shared my thoughts. Aint gonna reply further.

 

[idiot09]

And the audience doesn't have to like what the artist gives them.

Ofcourse not. The audience decides their own mind. Never disputed that.

 

[misslane38]

I forgot there was a forum police here dedicated to making sure all film criticism is in the forum of an academically cited essay.

Hoping my thesis on why BVS is the worst thing to happen to film since Good Luck Chuck finally gets me that doctorate I've been after.

I didn't set any writing requirement for anyone here. I did not suggest at any point that a person's opinion was illegitimate or wrong because an essay was not written. I expressed disappointment that a defense for an opinion was not shared, and then offered to agree to disagree, which is a tacit acknowledgement that I welcome disagreement. Your repeated attempts at hyperbole and stirring the pot here is absurd beyond belief.

 

[MbJ]

I didn't set any writing requirement for anyone here.

That's good because I was replying to Consona. That's the hilarious thing. People keep saying I'm being aggressive or trying to stir the pot, when all I've done since the initial post was respond to two other posters who were attempting to dog pile and lecture me about how I was wrong.

 

[Consona]

That's good because I was replying to Consona.

She's not talking about that and you know it.

edit: And don't edit your posts after I respond to them!

 

[MbJ]

She's not talking about that and you know it.

I wasn't paying attention because I just saw some crap in the grass outside.

 

[idiot09]

Wow.

 

[Consona]

I wasn't paying attention because I just saw some crap in the grass outside.

 

[idiot09]

Umberto : Also, of all places, ran into 2 different sources here at Sundance, 1 saw WW 1st cut, the other JL. They tell me good things about each

 

[MbJ]

Gonzalez often makes crap up so that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Hopefully we hear good things from a better source.

 

[Greens]

Somehow I doubt that Umberto knows someone who has actually seen a rough cut of Justice League.

 

[idiot09]

I doubt even if there is rought cut of JL by now that has been screened. Lets see.

 

[misslane38]

That's good because I was replying to Consona.

You were replying to Consona about me. Consona said the following and mentioned me specifically:

He did a right thing, IMO. Misslane38's request was not something nonsensical or whatever, she wanted to discuss the problem more deeply, what's wrong with that? I like when people use this forum more like a forum and less as a two sentences chat.

Your response to that was:

I forgot there was a forum police here dedicated to making sure all film criticism is in the forum of an academically cited essay.

Hoping my thesis on why BVS is the worst thing to happen to film since Good Luck Chuck finally gets me that doctorate I've been after.

Previously you said this to me. Note the essay remark:

Can I ask why you feel the need to interrogate anyone who ever disagrees with you about a movie? You're not the police. People are allowed to dislike a movie you like without writing you an essay.

To recap. I simply expressed disappointment that someone wasn't willing to share their reasons for their opinion and concluded my conversation with that person with an amiable "agree to disagree" request. Since then, you have put words in my mouth about my demanding essays, when I said nothing of the sort, and now you're denying that you complained to me personally about my alleged unreasonable demands for essays. It feels like we're going around in circles. Whether it's the person I was originally conversing with or you, my offer to agree to disagree stands. Except, given how this has turned out, it's no longer an offer. I am done talking about this with you.

 

[BH/HHH]

Gonzalez often makes crap up so that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Hopefully we hear good things from a better source.

Yup

 

[idiot09]

Also I was wondering who do you consider a good reporter/source guys? I trust Mark Hughes, he is legit. Mcweeny is legit as well(dont hear from his much nowadays).Who else do you guys trust?

 

[The Joker]

Crap is not vulgar? Ok...

I got infraction for using word "bull s h * t". I thought s h * t and crap are rather similar in meaning, seems I was wrong.

Now you know better. So don't worry about getting an infraction if you ever feel the urge to use it.

And I apologize for that. People can change, don't you think?

You have nothing to apologize for. There's nothing wrong with using the word crap.

If you keep your audience in mind, you fall into the trap of "what will the audience think". You cant go, "im executing my own vision, but lets think about what the audience will think though". Ofcourse the studio thinks about the audience and to a certain degree directors and writers do too, but if you take it too much into account, it can bring trouble. I think making the movie you would want to see is a valid approach. If you disagree with that, then cool. I dont thin they are like "**** audience ill do it for myself" more like "rather than second guess the audience, make the movie I would like to see, and hope that would extend to other people".

That makes no sense. Why would you fall into that trap if you believe in your vision to be good as well as being able to entertain your audience? Unless you have faith in your vision both personally and to entertain the target audiences, then you have nothing to worry about. Only an insecure director keeps second guessing themselves.

Furthermore often when directors try something different, they do so partly because they think audiences will enjoy something new, and something they haven't seen before so it will give them something to look forward to and be excited to see.

Like in reboots, they try and do characters that haven't been done before in previous movies. Give fans something new. Like Nolan choosing Ra's and Scarecrow for BB for example, and doing Batman's origin fully.

I don't believe that a great director doesn't have their audience in mind when they make their movies.

And about the taking criticism part, he has been very dignified about all the criticism for BvS, has taken it in his chin, and is going full steam ahead with JL. He has said, he has heard the complaints, and is trying his best to make JL the best movie he can. The MOS one is one example you give, but he has always taken criticism to movies like Watchmen, Sucker Punch very sportingly. Everyone who works with him say the same, and I see the same whenever I see him in his interviews.

On the chin really? He said BvS is transcendent, unlike movies like Ant-Man which is flavor of the week. He responded to the criticism of killing off Jimmy Olsen so briefly as having fun with the character.

I haven't read his responses to the criticism to Watchmen or Sucker Punch. But based on his track record with the DCEU I bet there was some childish responses somewhere.

Thats all I have to say in that matter. I have shared my thoughts. Aint gonna reply further.

Fair enough.

 

[MbJ]

It feels like we're going around in circles. .

Because you guys keep bringing it up to me, lol. Seriously. It was over and done and then mydnightphoenix decided to step in and explain to me how I was wrong and then someone else did as well and it's persisted. This could've been over quite some time ago but people on here don't like to let stuff go, I guess.

Also I was wondering who do you consider a good reporter/source guys?

Not Umberto Gonzalez.

JoBlo is someone I usually trust. They were spot on in their early rumors about Civil War and Ragnarok so I would trust them.

 

[idiot09]

Couple of clarifications, without going into the argument.

Why would you fall into that trap if you believe in your vision to be good as well as being able to entertain your audience?

Who said Zack doesnt think his vision wont be able to entertain the audience?

I don't believe that a great director doesn't have their audience in mind when they make their movies.

Never said that.

On the chin really? He said BvS is transcendent, unlike movies like Ant-Man which is flavor of the week.

A complete misreading. He said characters like Batman/Superman as characters are transcendent of the superhero movie genre, but characters like Antman dont have that luxury. He was not talking about BvS the movie, or Antman the movie. He said this in response to the claim the supehero genre would die out like the western :

"I feel like he’s right. But I feel like Batman and Superman are transcendent of superhero movies in a way, because they’re Batman and Superman.They’re not just, like, the flavor of the week Ant-Man."

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I didn't set any writing requirement for anyone here. I did not suggest at any point that a person's opinion was illegitimate or wrong because an essay was not written. I expressed disappointment that a defense for an opinion was not shared, and then offered to agree to disagree, which is a tacit acknowledgement that I welcome disagreement. Your repeated attempts at hyperbole and stirring the pot here is absurd beyond belief.

The immature response to rational posts my you, myself and Consona tells me trying to have an adult conversation isn't going to work here. Responding to legitimate reasoning by posting memes does not a conversation make.

I am done talking about this with you.

As am I

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

A complete misreading. He said characters like Batman/Superman as characters are transcendent of the superhero movie genre, but characters like Antman dont have that luxury. He was not talking about BvS the movie, or Antman the movie. He said this in response to the claim the supehero genre would die out like the western :

"I feel like he’s right. But I feel like Batman and Superman are transcendent of superhero movies in a way, because they’re Batman and Superman.They’re not just, like, the flavor of the week Ant-Man."

This is when I started to realize there was a DC bias and especially a Zack bias. Taking his words and misquoting what he said and running with it. I remember they even fed Sebastian Stan the lie and he was upset by it, which is unfortunate because I'm sure I've heard Zack praise Marvel.

 

[Consona]

The problem with crap like rumors/reports from behind the closed doors is that 1) it's, again, just subjective, 2) but people pay so much attention to it anyway since there's no other option before you see the film itself.

With MCU it's not that problematic, because "everybody loves MCU" and when there's rumor a next MCU film is good you know what to expect. But with DCEU? Those films are so divisive that "bad" or "good" can mean anything.

 

[MbJ]

They shot themselves in the foot with Suicide Squad because that basically turned any and all PR against DC until they have a critical hit. The early buzz on Suicide Squad was that there was drama behind the scenes and that the film was a mess, a viewpoint that was vindicated when it opened to scathing reviews and The Hollywood Reporter confirmed that there was indeed drama behind the scenes. Now WB is in a pit they need to dig themselves out of, because any negative rumor is automatically gonna carry more weight because everyone remembers the rumors about Suicide Squad being correct.

It sucks but it's the bed they made.

This is when I started to realize there was a DC bias and especially a Zack bias.

From whom exactly. Because misquoting or selectively quoting something for a saucier headline is a tried and true trend for news outlets in general (ask any politician). That's not an anti-DC thing.

He said something that sounded great as a combative soundbite and they ran with it.