All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - Part 81

[sf2]

Ok, I have to say I completely enjoyed the movie. The acting was spot on by everyone. Going in, I was worried that the shadow of the initial movies would hang over this one - I was wrong. Coming out of the movie I realized that I never even thought about comparing the two movies even once.

The performance by Cavill was brilliant. He owns the role completely. Shannon was not as good as expected. Costner and Crowe were both great. Amy Adams and Antje Trauea were both good.

All the criticisms I have heard of lack of character development for everyone apart from Superman do apply, but everyone is forgetting that

Spoiler

the movie takes place in a timespan of 48 hours total for the main parties involved. And in this timeframe every single character almost gets a character moment. Perry White would rather stay and die than leave people behind. Steve Lombard is a perennial flirt, Lois is spunky, Colonel Hardy is for the greater good. Only Jenny doesn't get any defining trait.

The audience I watched it with applauded 5 times (apart from the ending which got the most applause especially when

Spoiler

Clark Kent is introduced

The 5 instances were

Spoiler

1. The truck
2. First flight
3. Gravity beam smash
4. The smallville fight
and most surprisingly
5. when Superman killed Zod.

The final sequence of fights is just brilliantly done. They nailed Superman's flight.

The audience I watched it with loved it, could hear the talk in the lobby post the movie. Don't know if this will translate to all audiences everywhere, but this truly is a great beginning for a new Superman.


EDIT: The most important thing - the movie passes the Bechdel test. There are 2 specific conversations (both one lines, but we are talking letter of the law, not spirit of the law)

Spoiler

1. When Jenny tells Lois - "You have got to see this" regarding the news playing on the TV
2. When Faora tells Lois - "This is a breathing apparatus, it will help you adapt to the atmosphere on our ship". Wouldn't be surprised if this was just added to pass the test actually

sweeeeeeet...

wait...

but u r fake!!!

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Didn't you guys just agree?

Spoiler

I personally didn't have a problem with his actual death. I thought that was a very emotional scene. It's his arc leading to his death. Jonathan tells Clark at least twice in the film that he needs to discover why he is here on Earth and that he will change the world.

He's also scared of losing him and I believe their last conversation hinted tha he wants Clark to take over the family farm.

But I can see why some people felt his actual death was disappointing. That being said, Costner was fantastic.

 

[DKDetective]

Glad you enjoyed. It still makes me nervous though that the final is so long and I am hearing about pacing problems with the pre-Superman stuff. How coherent would you say the early stuff is? Does it transition well, or does it jump all over the
place?

I'm glad someone else is nervous about the third act. A 40-minute super grudge match does not sound at all appealing to me. It sounds excessive and self-indulgent - like Star Trek: Nemesis's 30 minute space battle.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What was so inconsistent about that arc?

 

[Eggyman]

Spoiler

I personally didn't have a problem with his actual death. I thought that was a very emotional scene. It's his arc leading to his death. Jonathan tells Clark at least twice in the film that he needs to discover why he is here on Earth and that he will change the world.

He's also scared of losing him and I believe their last conversation hinted tha he wants Clark to take over the family farm.

Brings up another question: why do farmers have such bad luck with aliens?

 

[Herolee10]

Brings up another question: why do farmers have such bad luck with aliens?

They destroy their well design and time consuming crop circles?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm glad someone else is nervous about the third act. A 40-minute super grudge match does not sound at all appealing to me. It sounds excessive and self-indulgent - like Star Trek: Nemesis's 30 minute space battle.

I think you could pull it off if done right. But you need a lot of characters and angles in my opinion.

My thing is, and I have been saying it for a long time, was that with this running time, something is going to get short changed. And now it is looking like it is the Clark stuff, which is slightly disappointing to me.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I hope my problems with that particular element of the film doesn't bring any down. I'll just leave it up for people to judge for themselves. Other than that and a few other little gripes, I enjoyed the **** out of it and I can't wait to watch it again in 22 hours.

And now it is looking like it is the Clark stuff, which is slightly disappointing to me.

To me, what got slightly shortchanged was the Clark/Lois relationship, but the end of the film hints at it being fully realized in the sequel, but what we get it's great.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hope my problems with that particular element of the film doesn't bring any down. I'll just leave it up for people to judge for themselves. Other than that and a few other little gripes, I enjoyed the **** out of it and I can't wait to watch it again in 22 hours.

I can nitpick certain things for weeks. And then sit down and watch the same movie and almost forget they exist. On the otherhand my annoyance with them can become even greater at times.

 

[DKDetective]

Really? That scene kills me in Begins.

Same. With the little boy's halted aria as the score and having Thomas Wayne built up as such a great man and father before being gunned down. I think people confuse the surreal, out of body shock of the scene for lack of emotion.

 

[Andreth]

I hope my problems with that particular element of the film doesn't bring any down. I'll just leave it up for people to judge for themselves. Other than that and a few other little gripes, I enjoyed the **** out of it and I can't wait to watch it again in 22 hours.

I'm watching it again in 20 hours

 

[Herolee10]

To me, what got slightly shortchanged was the Clark/Lois relationship, but the end of the film hints at it being fully realized in the sequel, but what we get it's great.

Speaking of which, from what I've been told about what happens between those two, I'm kind of conflicted on that as well, but not for the reasons that some would normally expect.lol

Spoiler

I had been hoping that they would end up as an official couple by the end of the film and from everything that I've heard, they're not really an couple yet but in the same time, they're not just platonic friends either, so it's like putting them on an cliffhanger since they're not still just friends but they're not lovers yet either and before you can make any sense of it, you have to wait till the next film to figure out what they are to each other or how they really feel.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Same. With the little boy's halted aria as the score and having Thomas Wayne built up as such a great man and father before being gunned down. I think people confuse the surreal, out of body shock of the scene for lack of emotion.

That is what gets me more then anything. A dad sees his son is scared, tries to reassure him and it leads to tragedy. Of course it is surreal. Can anyone really imagine that happening to you? The look on his father's face as he tries to reassure his son is detached, but that is because he is dying.

That Bruce's dad is covering for his fear always gets. Great dad until the end.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Speaking of which, from what I've been told about what happens between those two, I'm kind of conflicted on that as well, but not for the reasons that some would normally expect.lol

Spoiler

I had been hoping that they would end up as an official couple by the end of the film and from everything that I've heard, they're not really an couple yet but in the same time, they're not just platonic friends either, so it's like putting them on an cliffhanger since they're not still just friends but they're not lovers yet either and before you can make any sense of it, you have to wait till the next film to figure out what they are to each other or how they really feel.

Spoiler

To be honest, given the events that occur, I'm not disappointed that they don't end up a couple, but they have a mutual respect for each other. But yeah, they're not entirely "friends" yet.

 

[J.Howlett]

Is anyone still excited for tonight/tomorrow opening day of Man of Steel?

Remember, you're the only critic that matters.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Is anyone still excited for tonight/tomorrow opening day of Man of Steel?

Remember, you're the only critic that matters.

I already got tickets for the midnight showing and for Saturday afternoon.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is anyone still excited for tonight/tomorrow opening day of Man of Steel?

Remember, you're the only critic that matters.

I am pumped.

 

[Herolee10]

Spoiler

To be honest, given the events that occur, I'm not disappointed that they don't end up a couple, but they have a mutual respect for each other. But yeah, they're not entirely "friends" yet.

In your opinion, would you say that their more developed than the likes of how Thor and Jane were shown in "Thor", along with them being more closer/intimate with each other in MOS as well?

 

[Andreth]

Speaking of which, from what I've been told about what happens between those two, I'm kind of conflicted on that as well, but not for the reasons that some would normally expect.lol

Spoiler

I had been hoping that they would end up as an official couple by the end of the film and from everything that I've heard, they're not really an couple yet but in the same time, they're not just platonic friends either, so it's like putting them on an cliffhanger since they're not still just friends but they're not lovers yet either and before you can make any sense of it, you have to wait till the next film to figure out what they are to each other or how they really feel.

Really? but this is just the first movie and this is much more fun, it's the chasing game!

actually,

Spoiler

they could be a couple, Lombard asks her out and she says no, 10 seconds later she and Clark are smiling at each other. There's a lot left open for interpretation. Especially after Clark's line when they kiss.
But even if they're not it DEFINITELY leaves the road open for the sequels. So, don't be disappointed, trust me

 

[J.Howlett]

I already got tickets for the midnight showing and for Saturday afternoon.

Friday at noon in IMAX 2D. I just love this time of year. The hype. The communal experience of watching a big film with a lots of people. The possibility that it could blow your mind or destroy it negatively.

There's just nothing like the summer movie experience when the hype sets in.

Lurking on this forum for the past two days and watching the meltdown has not changed my outlook or anticipation one bit.

My mind is open to all possible reactions. The stage is set. MAN OF STEEL is here.

I haven't felt this way since BATMAN BEGINS.

 

[Herolee10]

Really? but this is just the first movie and this is much more fun, it's the chasing game!

actually,

Spoiler

they could be a couple, Lombard asks her out and she says no, 10 seconds later she and Clark are smiling at each other. There's a lot left open for interpretation.
But even if they're not it DEFINITELY leaves the road open for the sequels. So, don't be disappointed, trust me

Lombard? Gasp, we have another triangle in an superman film on our hands?

Sounds very de ja vu to the ending of "The Amazing Spider-Man" when it comes to Gwen and Peter, minus the broken promise and heartbreaking break up at the doorstep.lol and at least we don't have to worry as much in seeing Lois die like Gwen is most likely to in future installments.lol

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Friday at noon in IMAX 2D. I just love this time of year. The hype. The communal experience of watching a big film with a lots of people. The possibility that it could blow your mind or destroy it negatively.

There's just nothing like the summer movie experience when the hype sets in.

Lurking on this forum for the past two days and watching the meltdown has not changed my outlook or anticipation one bit.

My mind is open to all possible reactions. The stage is set. MAN OF STEEL is here.

I haven't felt this way since BATMAN BEGINS.

I am doing the Wal-Mart thing. Perfect for my family really. Allows us to get home before 10pm. I am so nervous and giddy. My expectations need to get into check quick, but every piece of footage gets me more hyped.

 

[Andreth]

Is anyone still excited for tonight/tomorrow opening day of Man of Steel?

Remember, you're the only critic that matters.

Definitely! I learnt that the HARD way today. I shouldn't have read all those reviews.

 

[J.Howlett]

I am doing the Wal-Mart thing. Perfect for my family really. Allows us to get home before 10pm.

My boys are too young to see the film so I'm on my own again. The wife's not too into watching another Superman film.

She's a Lois and Clark kind of gal. She doesn't see the need for a serious Superman film. I have to roll my eyes when she says that...

 

[DKDetective]

I think you could pull it off if done right. But you need a lot of characters and angles in my opinion.

My thing is, and I have been saying it for a long time, was that with this running time, something is going to get short changed. And now it is looking like it is the Clark stuff, which is slightly disappointing to me.

Yeah, the short changing of Clark's character development for spectacle is a definite no-no for me.

I get your point about being able to design a really long, effective setpieces by using a lot of characters and perspectives, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a giant fistfight. I can't get the final Neo-Smith confrontation out of my head and that worries me. Watching that scene even as a young teenager, I couldn't help but be bored a couple of minutes in. There is only so many different ways that one can go about striking someone with their limbs, objects and heat vision. I prefer shorter, more concise action beats that leave you wanting more rather blurry-eyed and exhausted.