All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - Part 81

[DKDetective]

The Independence Day comparison will not pop to mind unless specifically called out i.e. while watching MoS you won't go "Oh ID4" unless someone specifically asks you "Did any scene remind you of ID4?". Even then, the only comparison with ID4 is the spacecraft over the city. Although here it is only one craft rather than the whole fleet in that movie.

There were other weird alleged "rip offs" like characters having trouble detonating a bomb and she made comments like she didn't like how the movie deviated from the source material and then went on to say she never has never read a Superman comic. Essentially, issues with her opinions that are rightfully open to criticism by people here.

 

[Deserana]

Did anybody hear if Kevin Smith liked it?

His next Smodcast is devoted to the film. No idea when its out though.

Also I found it funny that (and sorry to bring up RT again ) one of the reviews says -

Man of Steel starts feeling like just another generic superhero movie - the exact opposite to the radical and unique stamp Nolan placed on the Dark Knight trilogy

Yet wasn't that a common criticism for the third act of the loved Batman Begins? And also slightly TDKR?

Sooooooo it's okay when Nolan does it? But Snyder gets a slap round the chops?

 

[J.Howlett]

There's a slight bias against Snyder amongst the critical community because of his previous work.

For one reason or another, a lot of critics don't like him.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Maybe it worked better in Begins than MOS. It's all about (waitforit) context.

 

[DKDetective]

I think the movie would be getting better reviews if the tone and feel was similar to Avengers. Many of the critics seem to want an another homage to the Donner films with a lot of whimsy and romance. Less Transformers-style action/destruction and more lite comedy mixed with romance.

The problem is we already had that movie and it bombed.

We did? While Superman Returns was filled with homages, it was his own thing and had a completely different spirit than the Donner films. The similarities were really superficial in my opinion. It had none of the whimsy, romance, or triumphant tone of the Donner film.

 

[J.Howlett]

Maybe it worked better in Begins than MOS. It's all about (waitforit) context.

Not saying you're wrong. I'll just have to see tomorrow.

Listen, I'm a Snyder fan. I don't understand the criticism towards the guy. The guy understands cinema on a visceral level like nobody else. He's a stunning visualist and in terms of the emotional side of cinema, at least he actively tries unlike Michael Bay, who I love as well...

 

[mohoo]

I just hope we see more DC (or Marvel) films with MoS style, I love it.

 

[J.Howlett]

We did? While Superman Returns was filled with homages, it was his own thing and had a completely different spirit than the Donner films. The similarities were really superficial in my opinion. It had none of the whimsy, romance, or triumphant tone of the Donner film.

I wouldn't say Superman Returns was completely it's own thing. For a good stretch of the film, it was a reprise of the original film. Eventually, the film evolved into it's own thing.

I still think that film works as Superman III to Donner's first two. It closes the thematic loop. The biggest problem fans had with it, in my opinion, was that Singer spent 209 million on a love story...when what the fans have longed for was a modern version of the character after having been away so long.

But, I still agree with Singer's premise. The origin of Kal-El, whether from comics, TV, or from the original film, is so hardwired into everyone's DNA, it made sense not to do a hard reboot and do the origin again. It made sense to just pick up where we left off. And had Singer got his sequel, I think we'd be in a totally different situation right now.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Thanks, I plan on it!

And might I recommend going to bed early? Then your viewing will be here before you know it (hey, worked for me on Christmas Eve all those years). t:

I'll be too excited for that. I revert back to a child when a comic book movie hits theaters.

 

[Poni_Boy]

There's a slight bias against Snyder amongst the critical community because of his previous work.

For one reason or another, a lot of critics don't like him.

Absolutely. Same thing goes for Uwe boll (but not as severely). Just means he has to perform above what has become expected of him. People kep mentioning how much they like Watchmen or 300 but they quickly forget Sucker Punch and that animated owl flick. both of which were Snyder's original films.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Not saying you're wrong. I'll just have to see tomorrow.

Listen, I'm a Snyder fan. I don't understand the criticism towards the guy. The guy understands cinema on a visceral level like nobody else. He's a stunning visualist and in terms of the emotional side of cinema, at least he actively tries unlike Michael Bay, who I love as well...

Ironic that they went to school together

I think the difference is that while Bay and Snyder are both visceral directors Bay understands the how to film practical effects and blend it with CG. Snyder still has a lot to learn in that aspect.

 

[J.Howlett]

Absolutely. Same thing goes for Uwe boll (but not as severely). Just means he has to perform above what has become expected of him. People kep mentioning how much they like Watchmen or 300 but they quickly forget Sucker Punch and that animated owl flick. both of which were Snyder's original films.

Funny enough, I think the extended cut of Sucker Punch is Snyder's best work to date. I think Legends of the Guardians is one of the most eye popping animated films of all time. I think his extended cut of Watchmen is the second best comic book adaptation of all time.

But, I can see some of the criticism. His films FEEL like style over substance but I don't think that's really true. He has ideas on his mind.

 

[J.Howlett]

Ironic that they went to school together

I think the difference is that while Bay and Snyder are both visceral directors Bay understands the how to film practical effects and blend it with CG. Snyder still has a lot to learn in that aspect.

Yet Bay has no need for characterization or themes in his films. Again, Snyder does go for it with every film he's done. Again, I love both of these guys a lot...(yes, even the Transformers films, which are by no means good but what can I do? I'm a child of the 80's. I was raised to love a live action Transformers film.)

 

[Marvin]

We did? While Superman Returns was filled with homages, it was his own thing and had a completely different spirit than the Donner films. The similarities were really superficial in my opinion. It had none of the whimsy, romance, or triumphant tone of the Donner film.

Beat for beat remake, with a half the character and spirit.
A for effort imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Funny enough, I think the extended cut of Sucker Punch is Snyder's best work to date. I think Legends of the Guardians is one of the most eye popping animated films of all time. I think his extended cut of Watchmen is the second best comic book adaptation of all time.

But, I can see some of the criticism. His films FEEL like style over substance but I don't think that's really true. He has ideas on his mind.

Having ideas is different then being able to convey them.

 

[Marvin]

Yet Bay has no need for characterization or themes in his films. Again, Snyder does go for it with every film he's done. Again, I love both of these guys a lot...(yes, even the Transformers films, which are by no means good but what can I do? I'm a child of the 80's. I was raised to love a live action Transformers film.)

Snyder may "fail" at it. But bay "doesn't even go for it". The man is making action comedies, last time I checked "This is the end" isn't being ridiculed for it's lack of such things. It succeeds at what it's setting out to do.

There's room for everyone in the industry. Never understood the hate for some filmmakers. Even Singer has his strengths in my discussions.

 

[GreenKToo]

I'm off to see it. thoughts about it soon..

 

[Poni_Boy]

Funny enough, I think the extended cut of Sucker Punch is Snyder's best work to date. I think Legends of the Guardians is one of the most eye popping animated films of all time. I think his extended cut of Watchmen is the second best comic book adaptation of all time.

But, I can see some of the criticism. His films FEEL like style over substance but I don't think that's really true. He has ideas on his mind.

Wholeheartedly agree. I just feel he himself doesn't know how to implement them properly yet. I think Dawn of the Dead is his best work.

JOW said it best yesterday, some directors have yet to find the "it" factor in their films. It's why film makers like Spielberg and Nolan work with the same teams over and over. Once you find what makes your movies work you try to replicate it.

 

[InJustice]

Most people falsely believe Nolan ghost-directed this.

To add onto this, it's because of Nolan's name that people are freaking out that Superman will be Emoman. When it's actually not the case.

 

[flickchick85]

I'll be too excited for that. I revert back to a child when a comic book movie hits theaters.

LOL, I can understand that. That's pretty much been me all week.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yet Bay has no need for characterization or themes in his films. Again, Snyder does go for it with every film he's done. Again, I love both of these guys a lot...(yes, even the Transformers films, which are by no means good but what can I do? I'm a child of the 80's. I was raised to love a live action Transformers film.)

Me too man, 80s/90s movies are my obsession (you should see all the art in my apartment )

I think Transformers was the worst thing to happen to Bay's career. It made him a studio man.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Just a few more hours I am debating if I should even go to bed, I can hardly sleep.

 

[Marvin]

Most people falsely believe Nolan ghost-directed this.

We'll after that RT score I'm pretty sure few people will be saying that anymore. If the film landed in the 90's however...

 

[Poni_Boy]

He always was a studio man.

He is a corporate film-maker with a beautiful visual style.

By studio man I mean more worried about his contract than following through with his ideas. It's safer to stay with spectacle for him than try something new. That's why I don't think Nolan can be considered a studio man, even though people automatically link him to WB.

That's why it was so hard for him to get Pain & Gain greenlit, and I'm glad he went for it.

 

[Deserana]

How long till midnight in 'Murica??