All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Here's the weird thing, it was written to "not be like a comic book", but filmed in a very comic-bookish manner (this isn't a diss, it's actually a compliment).

The whole of Krypton is very comic-bookish. Even Clark adjusting to his powers has a comic-bookish vibe. But the movie lacks the sense of 'wildness' for lack of a better word.

It feels like the priority was giving it a sci-fi/documentary vibe, rather than a graphic novel vibe. But I do feel like Snyder really relishes the moments that do feel pulled out of the pages, such as Superman using heat vision or flying through the gravity beam.

I want a sequel to start out realistic, but become more comic-bookish as it goes on.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

How the hell does Man of Steel not embrace it's genre? Did people not see the Krypton sequence?

I'm just not understanding this line of thinking about it "not embracing it's genre".

Just because Nolan took a plausible aesthetic approach to his Dark Knight trilogy doesn't negate the fact that those three films have "comic book" written all over them if you've read any Batman comics.

The same can be said for Man of Steel.

I just don't get it.

And enough of this ******** about Avengers was well written. If it was, Steve Rogers and Thor would've been the anchors to that film, not RDJ. For the life of me, how people accept the fact that the two films that directly lead into the Avengers (Thor and Captain America the First Avenger, from a plot and character standpoint) ultimately get the shaft because of RDJ.

Speaking of The Avengers,
I'm annoyed that Joss is probably going to make Tony the creator of Ultron and not Ant-Man. Introducing Ant-Man in Avengers 2 and then releasing his solo film would have been PERFECT. But joss said no Ant Man/Hank for TA2

I'm looking forward to WF or whatever they're going to call it. But I understand why some are concerned. I also preferred having a solo sequel first but understand WB's reasoning behind this.

I think Superman's character can continue to be developed in a Superman/Batman film. It's the development of Clark as well as his relationship with Lois that I have some worry about being shortchanged.

Still, I'm going to be following every rumor with excitement just like I did MOS.

Agree with all of this STARMAN

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

This was never going to happen. Blame the box office for the Avengers. When that film hit 207 million dollars on it's opening weekend, it was over for complete trilogies/stories. Over.

Forget WB. Look at what Fox is about to do. They're getting their X-Men universe straighten out only to merge it with the new Fantastic Four universe that's about to be rebooted. Sony is creating it's own Spider-Man universe that will have spin offs and such.

The game is over. Marvel forced EVERYONE'S hand in how the genre will move forward. It has become serialized television. Nolan's Batman was the last one to get to do it the lone way. The last one.

You will now have to follow all of this stuff in order to get clear stories to the characters you love. I think it's the wrong way to go. I'm all for complete trilogies/stories for one specific character but that time is over.

If you want to scream and shout at anyone, head over to Disney and tell them thank you.

It has become serialized television.. like.. COMICS? Sign me up, please

 

[J.Howlett]

It has become serialized television.. like.. COMICS? Sign me up, please

Cinema can not sustain serialized stories that go on this long.

In cinema, we want endings. While Potter has eight films, there was always an ending in mind, so we accepted the ride.

The studios are not thinking about endings and complete stories. Why do you think Nolan was so adamant about ending Bruce's story?

Because we, as the cinema going audience, want our story to begin and then end for the two hour investment that we just paid. The Marvel Cinematic Universe will implode if Marvel doesn't have an ending in mind.

 

[Juha Bach]

I just don't get it.
When I was younger I used to come to forums like these to talk about how excited I was about movies and comics and such. There were plenty of films I didn't like(well not that much) and I simply just avoided those sections, mainly cause they didn't excite me. For all those similar minded people, the lurkers for example. You know the ones: "hey guys, I'm a long time lurker and a big fan, I just wanted to join the community and share my...etc" and the young cats, it sucks they have to show up in forums filled with nothing but subjective pessimism imo.

I don't mean to single you out, but I've browsed a few of the threads this morning while I sipped my tea, and it's somewhat unavoidable. Posts such as the ones I've pulled up here. Read them again.
I just don't get the point personally, you're concerned, great share away(I'm def not the boss around here), but why take every opportunity to spread negativity about the film in the entire section dedicated(in theory) to rallying up fans and supporters? Seems like a mission or something.

Again I don't mean to single you out or even discourage you, I'm just curious what the end game is personally or rather the point. Is it to have us all be cautious going forward? Are you doing people a favor and quelling their expectations so that they aren't disappointed? I suppose that would make some kind of sense.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to share it, I just don't know why some people approach forums this way. I for one simply spend(a lot of) time on the forums pertaining to films I'm excited about.
I showed up in the TDK section, mentioned how much I loved the sequel, called nolan a bum and mentioned I want uber bats, then, back to the TF threads(films I like). Just seems odd is all. Again, not trying to tell you want to do, I just curious is all.

I'm also not suggesting you or the others stop, I've been enjoying some of my discussions/debates.

My thoughts exactly. You know when i first heard about the news i was really stoked and excited. Coming to this section almost changed that. The negativity is really high which is surprising. Reading the comments here and other threads, you would think the consensus here is that MOS script was green lantern level of **** or MoS 2/worlds finest is going to be the worst thing to grace CBM's. Hopefully this reduces over time.

 

[J.Howlett]

Speaking of The Avengers,
I'm annoyed that Joss is probably going to make Tony the creator of Ultron and not Ant-Man. Introducing Ant-Man in Avengers 2 and then releasing his solo film would have been PERFECT. But joss said no Ant Man/Hank for TA2


Agree with all of this STARMAN

Because RDJ isn't doing anymore Iron Man films, this entire cinematic universe, now that we know who creates Ultron, is entirely about Tony Stark...and people need to get use to that right now because that's where it's headed.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Cinema can not sustain serialized stories that go on this long.

In cinema, we want endings. While Potter has eight films, there was always an ending in mind, so we accepted the ride.

The studios are not thinking about endings and complete stories. Why do you think Nolan was so adamant about ending Bruce's story?

Because we, as the cinema going audience, want our story to begin and then end for the two hour investment that we just paid. The Marvel Cinematic Universe will implode if Marvel doesn't have an ending in mind.

I'm sorry, but your talking is only making me more excited. I'm tired of seeing entire arcs condensed into 3 movies

 

[Herolee10]

This was never going to happen. Blame the box office for the Avengers. When that film hit 207 million dollars on it's opening weekend, it was over for complete trilogies/stories. Over.

Forget WB. Look at what Fox is about to do. They're getting their X-Men universe straighten out only to merge it with the new Fantastic Four universe that's about to be rebooted. Sony is creating it's own Spider-Man universe that will have spin offs and such.

The game is over. Marvel forced EVERYONE'S hand in how the genre will move forward. It has become serialized television. Nolan's Batman was the last one to get to do it the lone way. The last one.

You will now have to follow all of this stuff in order to get clear stories to the characters you love. I think it's the wrong way to go. I'm all for complete trilogies/stories for one specific character but that time is over.

If you want to scream and shout at anyone, head over to Disney and tell them thank you.

That's the thing though; maybe I was foolish to think that they wouldn't rush to the point where it would affect Superman's solo franchise, and hell, I was thinking that they were going to aim for a 2016 release for a solo sequel, but obviously, a lot of things changed.

And honestly, even if I were to look at things from the most optimistic view regarding the fact that Superman is no longer on his own as a hero in this franchise, it's just the taboo aspect of the bad history between them in past portrayals.

IF Superman had been portrayed in a MUCH BETTER light in different takes, along with the fact that Snyder and Goyer weren't such obvious fanboys over the Batman character, then yeah I'd be optimistic about it.

And that doesn't even include the fact that now Snyder and Goyer are on their own when it comes to the story since Nolan won't be involved in that aspect anymore..supposedly.

So yeah, I may overreact a couple of times, but I honestly don't think that my concerns are "unfounded".

Hell, I could even create a large ass post/thesis paper on why Superman fans should be worried about this and how this could really mean the end for him because believe me when I say that i've been trying to find ways to see this from an optimistic view, but so far, I can't find anything to warrant that optimism.

 

[J.Howlett]

If you want Superman to remain pure, then watch Man of Steel until the cows come home and don't watch the rest of th new DC Universe.

That's your only reprieve to this situation.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It's funny. But I actually feel like Snyder will elevate Goyer due to his devotion to the source material. But at the same time, I also think he doesn't have high enough standards for a screenplay.

A part of me would like to think that the "tornado scene" wouldn't make it into a Nolan-directed Superman movie. But then my thoughts flash back to the "monastery scene" and I hate that one even more :/

 

[J.Howlett]

That's the thing though; maybe I was foolish to think that they wouldn't rush to the point where it would affect Superman's solo franchise, and hell, I was thinking that they were going to aim for a 2016 release for a solo sequel, but obviously, a lot of things changed.

And honestly, even if I were to look at things from the most optimistic view regarding the fact that Superman is no longer on his own as a hero in this franchise, it's just the taboo aspect of the bad history between them in past portrayals.

IF Superman had been portrayed in a MUCH BETTER light in different takes, along with the fact that Snyder and Goyer weren't such obvious fanboys over the Batman character, then yeah I'd be optimistic about it.

And that doesn't even include the fact that now Snyder and Goyer are on their own when it comes to the story since Nolan won't be involved in that aspect anymore..supposedly.

So yeah, I may overreact a couple of times, but I honestly don't think that my concerns are "unfounded".

Hell, I could even create a large ass post/thesis paper on why Superman fans should be worried about this and how this could really mean the end for him because believe me when I say that i've been trying to find ways to see this from an optimistic view, but so far, I can't find anything to warrant that optimism.

Listen, everyone knows how much I love that man Nolan. But, he's not the only filmmaker that can do this thing. He isn't and he was never going to godfather this thing. His interest lie elsewhere.

We need to just wait. Just wait. I think Man of Steel is a hell of a start to any type of universe they create. They've created a plausible reason for a crap ton of characters and scenarios to exist in this universe.

The sky is the damn limit in this new universe.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

It's funny. But I actually feel like Snyder will elevate Goyer due to his devotion to the source material. But at the same time, I also think he doesn't have high enough standards for a screenplay.

A part of me would like to think that the "tornado scene" wouldn't make it into a Nolan-directed Superman movie. But then my thoughts flash back to the "monastery scene" and I hate that one even more :/

Funny. I liked the tornado scene but wish it was executed longer.
I must be one of the 5 people in the whole world who liked the priest scene. *my whole audience laughed at the priest loudly gulping*

 

[Juha Bach]

That's the thing though; maybe I was foolish to think that they wouldn't rush to the point where it would affect Superman's solo franchise, and hell, I was thinking that they were going to aim for a 2016 release for a solo sequel, but obviously, a lot of things changed.

And honestly, even if I were to look at things from the most optimistic view regarding the fact that Superman is no longer on his own as a hero in this franchise, it's just the taboo aspect of the bad history between them in past portrayals.

IF Superman had been portrayed in a MUCH BETTER light in different takes, along with the fact that Snyder and Goyer weren't such obvious fanboys over the Batman character, then yeah I'd be optimistic about it.

And that doesn't even include the fact that now Snyder and Goyer are on their own when it comes to the story since Nolan won't be involved in that aspect anymore..supposedly.

So yeah, I may overreact a couple of times, but I honestly don't think that my concerns are "unfounded".

Hell, I could even create a large ass post/thesis paper on why Superman fans should be worried about this and how this could really mean the end for him because believe me when I say that i've been trying to find ways to see this from an optimistic view, but so far, I can't find anything to warrant that optimism.

I dont know about goyer but if you read the quotes snyder made about superman, its very difficult to think his a Batman fanboy. I remember in last years comic con when someone asked him if Nolans Batman could beat supes and he was like hell no. So i dont think the character will be disrespected in this movie.

 

[J.Howlett]

Funny. I liked the tornado scene but wish it was executed longer.
I must be one of the 5 people in the whole world who liked the priest scene. *my whole audience laughed at the priest loudly gulping*

I'm 50/50 on the priest sequence. I understand the point and technically it makes sense but it's only point in the film that shows a reluctant Superman, which coming after the scene that preceded it, was not really appropriate.

That's my only problem with it. But, I understand the text as to the why of the scene.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Funny. I liked the tornado scene but wish it was executed longer.
I must be one of the 5 people in the whole world who liked the priest scene. *my whole audience laughed at the priest loudly gulping*

Make it 6, I really liked that scene as well.

 

[J.Howlett]

I dont know about goyer but if you read the quotes snyder made about superman, its very difficult to think his a Batman fanboy. I remember in last years comic con when someone asked him if Nolans Batman could beat supes and he was like hell no. So i dont think the character will be disrespected in this movie.

This.

 

[Tanin]

Soo..... Batman vs. Superman or Superman vs. Batman..... which sounds better?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Soo..... Batman vs. Superman or Superman vs. Batman..... which sounds better?

Don't like it, hope they come up with something else.

 

[Herolee10]

If you want Superman to remain pure, then watch Man of Steel until the cows come home and don't watch the rest of th new DC Universe.

That's your only reprieve to this situation.

Listen, everyone knows how much I love that man Nolan. But, he's not the only filmmaker that can do this thing. He isn't and he was never going to godfather this thing. His interest lie elsewhere.

We need to just wait. Just wait. I think Man of Steel is a hell of a start to any type of universe they create. They've created a plausible reason for a crap ton of characters and scenarios to exist in this universe.

The sky is the damn limit in this new universe.

Honestly, I have no real problem with this shared universe concept for the DC characters.

Heck, it was within my hope that this shared universe will cultivate into Superman emerging as the eventual and rightful leader of the Justice League given on how MOS set him up to lead humanity to greater heights, etc.

My only problem is the timing and yeah i know, blame Marvel for this, etc.

IF Goyer and Snyder can actually successfully pull this off and make Superman still look great without sacrificing him, or his love life, to Batman, then I will be sold on them without a question of an doubt.

Heck, I'd love if Snyder came out and said that this is not a team up film, but a direct sequel to Man of Steel involving Batman.

Like I've said before, I can eventually get past the idea that Batman is IN this film. What worries me the most is what his presence will do to Superman in the long run, let alone in this film.

I dont know about goyer but if you read the quotes snyder made about superman, its very difficult to think his a Batman fanboy. I remember in last years comic con when someone asked him if Nolans Batman could beat supes and he was like hell no. So i dont think the character will be disrespected in this movie.

Honestly, I don't think anyone would say "yes" to that question when they're in the midst of promoting their films.lol

Plus, Snyder is also the one that said that Superman should have more of his own films, and yet here we are getting a World's finest film.lol

 

[STARMAN]

They're going to call it Batman with a special guest appearance by Henry Cavill.

 

[DyeLorean]

Don't like it, hope they come up with something else.

Batperman

 

[ConnorKon-El]

They're going to call it Batman with a special guest appearance by Henry Cavill.

I'm here for that.
Batman featuring this insignificant guy in a red cape

 

[Marvin]

How the hell does Man of Steel not embrace it's genre? Did people not see the Krypton sequence?

I'm just not understanding this line of thinking about it "not embracing it's genre".

Just because Nolan took a plausible aesthetic approach to his Dark Knight trilogy doesn't negate the fact that those three films have "comic book" written all over them if you've read any Batman comics.

The same can be said for Man of Steel.

I just don't get it.

You need to ask people to define what they think the "genre" looks like/is.
I can't see them answering that question without putting themselves in a corner.

And enough of this ******** about Avengers was well written. If it was, Steve Rogers and Thor would've been the anchors to that film, not RDJ. For the life of me, how people accept the fact that the two films that directly lead into the Avengers (Thor and Captain America the First Avenger, from a plot and character standpoint) ultimately get the shaft because of RDJ.

It's because the internet hasn't propelled a propaganda against that film. The going word is that all is forgiven and it's all in good fun, thus anyone that isn't an authority on script analysis(such as myself) can run around and repeat what the masses are saying, "avengers is well written".
It's a shame, but that's the internet imo.
disclaimer, some people can and do think for themselves however.

I agree the critical reception of that film has been entirely apologetic, especially when compared to others. But then again, who has any reason to hate Whedon, Marvel and a bunch of second tier characters?

"It's not a perfect movie, it's not even a great movie...it's a great time."
Whedon on the film. As far as I'm concerned, criticizing that films merits is open game. I love the movie but that first act...

 

[Juha Bach]

Honestly, I don't think anyone would say "yes" to that question when they're in the midst of promoting their films.lol

Plus, Snyder is also the one that said that Superman should have more of his own films, and yet here we are getting a World's finest film.lol

He wanted Superman to get one more movie before the justice league which is what we are getting. Thats if you are part of the group which thinks this is MoS 2 guest starring Batman. Regardless, to say snyder is a Batman fanboy is inaccurate.

 

[Smallville13]

You need to ask people to define what they think the "genre" looks like/is.
I can't see them answering that question without putting themselves in a corner.


It's because the internet hasn't propelled a propaganda against that film. The going word is that all is forgiven and it's all in good fun, thus anyone that isn't an authority on script analysis(such as myself) can run around and repeat what the masses are saying, "avengers is well written".
It's a shame, but that's the internet imo.
disclaimer, some people can and do think for themselves however.

I agree the critical reception of that film has been entirely apologetic, especially when compared to others. But then again, who has any reason to hate Whedon, Marvel and a bunch of second tier characters?

"It's not a perfect movie, it's not even a great movie...it's a great time."
Whedon on the film. As far as I'm concerned, criticizing that films merits is open game. I love the movie but that first act...

I love that Whedon is so honest and self-critical like that. I think we can expect much better writing from him for A:AoU.