All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[PacificBoy]

Yep; especially during the moments where Superman and Zod collided to each other against a building. If you look closely, you can see the police sirens and people running away in the streets while the building breaks apart.

You can also see them when Zod is like twirling Superman around by his cape.

Ah, cheers. I understand the freneticism of the camerawork is to approximate the intensity of a tussle between two Kryptonians, but maybe the cutout people scenes could have lingered more, for people like me.

Yeah, those were some very odd shots indeed. I'm like thinking, are people that stupid where they just stand there with an helpless look on their faces? I mean how are we supposed to feel sorry for them if they're so stupid where they don't even try to hide for safety during that chaos?

I took it that they were awestruck by the sight of two living gods battling out to the extent that they couldn't turn away.

 

[Loki882]

People freeze all the time during disasters, it called being too scared and shocked to move.

 

[Liam_H]

It seemed more like they wanted a front row seat, only thing left was to see some of them with their phones out and recording.

 

[Loki882]

No, they were in shock and couldn't react (it's happened to me personally several times).

 

[Liam_H]

Different interpretation.

 

[Loki882]

No, your just incorrect. People can be so scared or shocked that they freeze. Saying that we stood there to watch a battle that would kill them is ludicrous.

 

[Herolee10]

No, your just incorrect. People can be so scared or shocked that they freeze. Saying that we stood there to watch a battle that would kill them is ludicrous.

I think Jenny was an good example on how some people just freeze, in both body and mind, when they see something that they just can't comprehend, in her case, a building crashing and collapsing in front of her.

 

[PacificBoy]

I do get that the fight is supposed to be representative of two Kryptonians tussling in real time, but does anyone think the pacing or editing of the climatic battle could be slowed or improved on? The fight didn't clock very long (about 5 minutes?) yet it felt longer and boy was I drained at the end. It's a first for me after an action sequence. I thought it was just me but coming to these boards I realize I'm not alone on this.

Wonder how Thor: The Dark World's battles pan out for a comparison, with gods in full flight.

 

[Loki882]

No, it's a fight between two god like beings going all out. I like the way it played out becasue that is the way it WOULD play out.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I hated the pacing of this movie. I loved the fight at the end, but the build up wasn't all that fantastic. I need to watch again.

 

[Smallville13]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/07/22/when-batman-becomes-warner-bros-dc-universe-crutch/

We are getting a would-be Man Of Steel 2 in summer 2015 as expected. It will be directed by Zack Snyder, written by Snyder and David Goyer, with Chris Nolan acting as executive producer. But it will actually be less of a stand-alone Superman adventure and more of a, well, team-up movie. And who will Superman be teaming up with? Why, Batman, of course! From a commerce point-of-view, this makes some sense, at least in the short term. From an artistic point-of-view, as well as a financial long term perspective, it’s genuinely disconcerting and a symptom of an over-reliance on the Caped Crusader.

Yep.

 

[Liam_H]

No, your just incorrect. People can be so scared or shocked that they freeze. Saying that we stood there to watch a battle that would kill them is ludicrous.

You're interpreting it in a way that makes sense to you but what I saw didn't. The people were standing there watching as they flew by. That to me to me doesn't say they were too shocked to move.

 

[TheBat812]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/07/22/when-batman-becomes-warner-bros-dc-universe-crutch/



Yep.

A bit early to say that. For all we know the inclusion of batman fits perfectly with their intended arc for Clark.

 

[Herolee10]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...atman-becomes-warner-bros-dc-universe-crutch/



Yep.

I do agree with that as well, but in the same time, Batman just happens to be the hero that Superman is known for teaming up with the most in the comics.

 

[Smallville13]

They are seemingly announcing defeat on the idea of stand-alone and character-driven super hero franchises.

That article is a pretty good read. Echoes alot of my, and others here's thoughts.

 

[The Sage]

It's definitely going to be a long two years. Or at least a long few months until more information becomes available.

 

[Herolee10]

That article is a pretty good read. Echoes alot of my, and others here's thoughts.

Well it's definitely no secret that Snyder's take on Superman, with MOS and even now as he moves forward, is really getting a lot of mixed reaction. Heck, I wonder if it'll be remembered most for having divided up the fandom the most.

 

[Smallville13]

There's absolutely no way this is an artistic or story-driven move. Like the article says it's WB giving 'added value' to the sequel after the mixed reviews and word of mouth of MOS.

 

[Marvin]

Absolutely.

A valiant and interesting analysis I gotta say.
However my point was that it seems you will justify "fluff" if it serves what you deem to be dramatic or in this case thematic purpose. For example, yes the finale is about coming together as a team, so now that means 30 minutes of thor swinging his hammer and iron man opening up his palms and black widow twirling her staff is going to be all seen as necessary cause it's driving the team work point home. Could that scene have been half as long under a "better" directors edit? Probably, would the film have been better received? Well that depends on what people define as a "better film experience".

Further, that fight could have started with everyone getting to the city at the same time, including banner and cap telling them how to contribute(instead of half way into the fight). That structure was also confusing, did the tide turn because of banner or because they were still infighting and after the team work started they began winning...

I think you make a good point for why it should have been banner that "defeated loki", though it's a hard point to make without rendering thor even more useless to the film.

Speaking of which, a berserker hulk on the air ship, I suppose that had it's point to be sure, but why the awesome fight with Thor...
I thought it was the best part but I'm not seeing the story point of those two clashing. However I'm not going to ask you to address it this isn't the place.

There's a way of doing that that's clever and completely blows your mind when you get to the end, and there's a way of doing that that's clumsy and ruins the reveal. I feel like in the film version of The Watchmen it was the later. On the whole they telegraphed that Adrian was the villain in a lot of ways from the very start.

Going into that film cold, it worked for me.
In the end I was like, only oxy could have kicked his ass that hard, all makes sense now.

 

[PacificBoy]

A bit early to say that. For all we know the inclusion of batman fits perfectly with their intended arc for Clark.

Yeah, there's every possibility since Goyer has reportedly been working on the sequel script since Feb and is tied down long-term by WB to seemingly help develop the DCU. But to outsiders like us it seems that it's purely a reactionary, fiscal response.

I'd say though even as a gamble, it's hell of a trump card WB is pulling out.

 

[TheBat812]

You're interpreting it in a way that makes sense to you but what I saw didn't. The people were standing there watching as they flew by. That to me to me doesn't say they were too shocked to move.

If two beings flew by you, wouldn't you stop to look and see what the **** was going on?

 

[Herolee10]

There's absolutely no way this is an artistic or story-driven move. Like the article says it's WB giving 'added value' to the sequel after the mixed reviews and word of mouth of MOS.

Which is ironic when you consider that one of the major reasons for those "mixed reviews" was due to how people felt that there was a lack of "story-driven" aspect for the film.lol

 

[Marvin]

Yeah, those were some very odd shots indeed. I'm like thinking, are people that stupid where they just stand there with an helpless look on their faces? I mean how are we supposed to feel sorry for them if they're so stupid where they don't even try to hide for safety during that chaos?

Unlike in the original films and that thing called returns.
No one in metropolis has ever seen Superman and his ilk, in action before, I'd cut them some slack, the doomsday weapon just turned off.

I do think they reacted more appropriately than the WWE crowd in Superman 2.

 

[Tempest]

But was there a captain america sparking that order though?

That would have surely put some more minds at ease(no joke).

Ha! But too sad.

I've personally put no thought in to actual numbers, seeing as I have no experience with such things but I do know that the first building didn't go down till perry and his immediate group were seemingly out of their building. I assume that 911 didn't play out that way.

There are no certain numbers on this little fact, but it's believed there were about 5 to 7 thousand people in each tower when the attack started. Split the difference, and you've got about 12,000 vulnerable people that day.

When you look at the numbers of those killed, it's truly amazing. 2,606 people were killed in the towers and on the ground (the actual number of casualties that day were 2996, including the 17 terrorists).

A few factors played into so many people being able to survive that day; the point of impact, and the time that the buildings stood before they collapsed. Even when the towers collapsed, there were thousands of people on the ground who amazingly enough survived -- of the victims killed at the towers, only 107 people were actually on the ground.

I don't mean to reduce the seriousness of 9/11 by bringing that atrocity into a discussion about a super hero movie. But it is an excellent illustration of how many people can survive a situation that is so dangerous.

The people that day had no warning; the people of Metroplis had some inkling of the danger they were in. I think the moaning and complaining of 'tens of thousands', or 'millions of lives' lost in MOS is exaggerated at best, and just a whiny reason to fuss about the movie at worst.

Now, that's not to say that thousands of lives lost is not a sad moment. It really is, and I'm very sorry fictional people died in a super hero film. But I am not that sorry that the film didn't do a memorial for them, or that Superman didn't angst for ten minutes over it, or that he didn't waste time trying to reason with people bent on genocide.

It's a movie. Red shirts die. Time to move on.

 

[Loki882]

I'm all for different interpretations, but there are certain basic facets of human psychology. What happened in MOS happens all the time in real life, it's happened to me and people that I know. There is no interpretation in this case, just what happened.