BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think Snyder and Co. are much further along in pre production than most of us think. The extra time given for MOS' sfx was not wasted I think. I suspect he and Goyer had tons mapped out for the follow up they were confident was going to happen. The hand wringing going on amongst some is going to give some on here carpal tunnel.

 

[BatLobster]

You know the more I think about it the more I think its too soon for this film. Yes we have an established Superman in Henry Cavill, people have invested in his take already due to Man of Steel but this new Batman could be problematic with it been a new guy. We all say yes its Superman and Batman on screen together but it might not seem that way to most. It might be hey its Superman and so and so as Batman. My main point is that this new Batman hasn't had a chance for people to invest in him like Cavill has had and Bale had with the Nolan films. I really think this could make a huge difference to the box office numbers. WBs really should have rebooted Bats and done a MOS 2 before this.

Thing is, I don't think WB wanted to reboot Batman via a solo franchise directly after the Nolan trilogy and risk it not being as well received. And I don't think they wanted to wait 2 movies and another 5-6 years to arrive at some sort of team up film.

Thus, here we are. A soft reboot of the Batman franchise and the Superman sequel all in one package.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Batman is probably the most easy to swallow as an already established hero. Dropping us in on his story while he's already been active for a while is perfectly fine. Batman '89 and Batman: TAS did it with much success, so it isn't anything new.

We don't need an entire origin film and a sequel to establish him, or even his villains.

If there is any character you can introduce in a team-up film, or even solo film, without a prior introduction to them, its Batman.

The comics and DC's animated films (Such as the New Frontier and Public Enemies) have already proven that you can introduce these characters, especially Batman and Superman, without much precursor into who they are, as long as their personalities, the world they are in, and characters they interact with are recognisable to audiences. Even if at the most basic level.

 

[jmc]

He did 6 pretty well.

Don't get me started on that film.

 

[jmc]

I think Snyder and Co. are much further along in pre production than most of us think. The extra time given for MOS' sfx was not wasted I think. I suspect he and Goyer had tons mapped out for the follow up they were confident was going to happen. The hand wringing going on amongst some is going to give some on here carpal tunnel.

Something tells me Goyer was working on a follow up Superman film, not one featuring Batman. Adding Batman is a page one rewrite.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Something tells me Goyer was working on a follow up Superman film, not one featuring Batman. Adding Batman is a page one rewrite.

This. They definitely had, at the very least, an outline of what they wanted to do with the sequel. However, I'm pretty sure they always considered introducing Batman as a very strong option, and wrote that initial outline with him in mind.

The Wayne Enterprises satellite attests to that. That was always much more than an easter egg for the wider universe. It was an establishing point for the sequel, as was the numerous LexCorp signs/trucks, which could (and now will) feature those 2 characters.

 

[jmc]

I have problems believing Batman was ever something they genuinely thought they have to contend with this early. The problem is MoS universe has been a misstep from day one. It was never intended to be part of a larger universe and was meant to be self contained, then it was altered during production to be the starting point afterward, then it was suppose to spawn a Superman sequel, now it's a team up film. They are making it up as they go along, they're throwing dart and hoping something will stick.

 

[smallville fan]

Something tells me Goyer was working on a follow up Superman film, not one featuring Batman. Adding Batman is a page one rewrite.

I honestly believe that this film(Superman/Batman) was in the works long before any of us thought it was and well before Man of Steel had its first review. Remember when Henry Cavill just happened to blurt out randomly how he'd do a movie with Batman?

[YT]KbYr5o9by_E[/YT]-->This video was dated in May, 2 months before that fateful SDCC announcement.

Looking back on it, I don't think it was as last minute everyone here perceives this to be. I believe everyone was in on what's happening from Henry Cavill all the way to Hans Zimmer who said himself "Here we go again."

 

[jmc]

I honestly believe that this film(Superman/Batman) was in the works long before any of us thought it was and well before Man of Steel had its first review. Remember when Henry Cavill just happened to blurt out randomly how he'd do a movie with Batman?

[YT]KbYr5o9by_E[/YT]-->This video was dated in May, 2 months before that fateful SDCC announcement.

Looking back on it, I don't think it was as last minute everyone here perceives this to be. I believe everyone was in on what's happening from Henry Cavill all the way to Hans Zimmer who said himself "Here we go again."

C'mon man, those quote really don't amount to anything. How else would Cavil answer a Batman/Superman question exactly? What's he going to say 'I don't want to do that movie, I think it would be crap'? C'mon, MoS didn't bring in the doe WB wanted, and its sequel was going to be in the most crowded blockbuster year in history, and given the critical panning it got it needs WB's go to guy in Batman to help. At best Batman was plan 'B', there's no doubt in my mind they wanted a direct MoS sequel, not a team up film. I don't for a second believe Batman v Superman has been in any great stage of development at all - until sources say otherwise.

 

[Gianakin_]

C'mon man, those quote really don't amount to anything. How else would Cavil answer a Batman/Superman question exactly? What's he going to say 'I don't want to do that movie, I think it would be crap'? C'mon, MoS didn't bring in the doe WB wanted, and its sequel was going to be in the most crowded blockbuster year in history, and given the critical panning it got it needs WB's go to guy in Batman to help. At best Batman was plan 'B', there's no doubt in my mind they wanted a direct MoS sequel, not a team up film. I don't for a second believe Batman v Superman has been in any great stage of development at all - until sources say otherwise.

Only truth.

 

[smallville fan]

C'mon man, those quote really don't amount to anything. How else would Cavil answer a Batman/Superman question exactly? What's he going to say 'I don't want to do that movie, I think it would be crap'? C'mon, MoS didn't bring in the doe WB wanted, and its sequel was going to be in the most crowded blockbuster year in history, and given the critical panning it got it needs WB's go to guy in Batman to help. At best Batman was plan 'B', there's no doubt in my mind they wanted a direct MoS sequel, not a team up film. I don't for a second believe Batman v Superman has been in any great stage of development at all - until sources say otherwise.

But the thing is, he was never asked "Oh would you like to be in a film with Batman?". He just said it outright. WB have been trying to get a Superman/Batman movie off the ground for years they saw this as the opportunity. I doubt this really was a plan B.

 

[jmc]

And I point to the logo at the announcement as further evidence. If that BvsS film was really in development long before MoS was released there is no way in hell that would be the first image depicting the first ever meeting on screen of these two iconic characters, because that 'logo' is ****ing appalling.

 

[smallville fan]

And I point to the logo at the announcement as further evidence. If that BvsS film was really in development long before MoS was released there is no way in hell that would be the first image depicting the first ever meeting on screen of these two iconic characters, because that 'logo' is ****ing appalling.

Well it is. Here's an article where Hans Zimmer says:

I just had a conversation recently with Zack where I was trying to look at my life in the future. He was going, 'Well, we want to go and do this and we want to go and [do this].' I was thinking, 'Oh my god. Here we go again.'

Link: http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/conte...dc-movies-man-steel-trilogy-or-justice-league

A very relevant point says:

Obviously, the "here we go again" is referencing the three Batman movies, so it sounds as if Snyder has a well thought out vision for Superman.

The article was dated June 1st, well before MOS was released. Clearly Hans found out about that they want to bring in Batman for the sequel hence the "Here we go again." They've thought this through for a long time guys.

 

[STARMAN]

I don't think they were planning Superman/Batman. I think they were expecting to work on MOS 2 and expand on the foundation they built in the first one. I think they got thrown a curveball.

 

[jmc]

Well it is. Here's an article where Hans Zimmer says:



Link: http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/conte...dc-movies-man-steel-trilogy-or-justice-league

A very relevant point says:



The article was dated June 1st, well before MOS was released. Clearly Hans found out about that they want to bring in Batman for the sequel hence the "Here we go again." They've thought this through for a long time guys.

I fail to see the name 'Batman' mentioned there by anyone other than the writer of the article who's assuming just as much as you are. I'll just add, cosmicbooknews is a ****** website.

 

[Deserana]

Well it isn't gonna be said by Zimmer is it? He is hardly gonna say "Batman" before the announcement. As for the logo WB just may not have intended to announce it at comic-con. But I do agree it is pretty bad.

Just because the logo was bad I don't see how that makes the whole project rushed...

 

[smallville fan]

I fail to see the name 'Batman' mentioned there by anyone other than the writer of the article who's assuming just as much as you are. I'll just add, cosmicbooknews is a ****** website.

Well what else would "Here we go again" meant?

 

[jmc]

Well what else would "Here we go again" meant?

Oh geez, I don't know, how about it being in reference to a Man of Steel 2?

 

[STARMAN]

I think Zimmer's "Here we go again" was referring to a MOS trilogy just like a Batman trilogy.

 

[jmc]

Well it isn't gonna be said by Zimmer is it? He is hardly gonna say "Batman" before the announcement. As for the logo WB just may not have intended to announce it at comic-con. But I do agree it is pretty bad.

Just because the logo was bad I don't see how that makes the whole project rushed...

I don't like pulling this card coz it makes me sound like some pretentious *****e but as someone who works in design and advertising bad design is an indication of something rushed, it means little thought was placed into it. If BvsS was genuinely on the cards long before MoS was released, then they would have had a piece of artwork to display that reflected it.

 

[STARMAN]

I don't think this was planned. I think they had a series of options on the table and chose one after MOS was released.

 

[smallville fan]

Oh geez, I don't know, how about it being in reference to a Man of Steel 2?

I think Zimmer's "Here we go again" was referring to a MOS trilogy just like a Batman trilogy.

or an expanded cinematic universe where they're going to feature a new Batman in action next. Can any of you find actual proof that this movie was just a cheap response to MOS not pulling the right grades with critics? So far it still looks like Snyder & Co. have thought this move through for a long time now as the sequel.

I don't like pulling this card coz it makes me sound like some pretentious *****e but as someone who works in design and advertising bad design is an indication of something rushed, it means little thought was placed into it. If BvsS was genuinely on the cards long before MoS was released, then they would have had a piece of artwork to display that reflected it.

You honestly believe some piece of artwork is the reason to why some movie hasn't been thought through for a long time now? They could make better versions for later. You know what the words "first draft" means?

 

[jmc]

Explain Snyder's quote then in regard to it being WB decision.

"It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best".

Does this sound like someone who wanted to go this route?

 

[jmc]

You honestly believe some piece of artwork is the reason to why some movie hasn't been thought through for a long time now? They could make better versions for later. You know what the words "first draft" means?

Yes. Because, because I know the importance of it.

 

[Marvin]

Well what else would "Here we go again" meant?

I too am curious.

It's quite the find, and to be honest, there is no way anyone was going to make the announcement before the big day. What else could Zimmer have meant by that response, more superman?

Looking back at all the interviews with Cavill and Snyder about JLA and stuff...
they consistently give measured responses. Cavill in particular says they need to introduce people before jla.