All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[Blitzkrieg]

#NotTheBvSThread

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

What?

Spoiler

It sounded like you just spoiled that she flies in the movie when that wasn't clear yet...

...to me at least.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Spoiler

It sounded like you just spoiled that she flies in the movie when that wasn't clear yet...

...to me at least.

Spoiler

She doesn't fly, don't worry.

 

[idiot09]

Some of the reviews I've read suggest that there are consequences to Diana's black-and-white worldview here. That would be a potentially compelling narrative.

A true hero cant be an absolutist. Because it can go either way, you can be a Captain America or you can be a Rorshach. When the hero becomes someone who goes "my way or the high way", specially one with the powers of a god, thats disturbing. Thats what leads to scenarios like Red Son and Injustice. A true hero has to be contemplative about his place and his stances, specially when he/she has the power to destroy the whole human race.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Spoiler

It sounded like you just spoiled that she flies in the movie when that wasn't clear yet...

...to me at least.

Spoiler

She doesn't fly, don't worry.

I haven't seen the movie, and between the trailers and BvS I've always found it sort of ambiguous; however in BvS, she drops out of the sky in her big entrance and the way she hurls herself at Doomsday might or might not indicate flight.

Likewise in the trailers there's a shot where she appears to be flying but again, without context it is unclear.

I said "if" because I legitimately did not know.

 

[jemoen]

Reminder that BVS is a masterpiece. Good night !

 

[Keyser Sushi]

A true hero cant be an absolutist. Because it can go either way, you can be a Captain America or you can be a Rorshach. When the hero becomes someone who goes "my way or the high way", specially one with the powers of a god, thats disturbing. Thats what leads to scenarios like Red Son and Injustice. A true hero has to be contemplative about his place and his stances, specially when he/she has the power to destroy the whole human race.

I'd say that's about right.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A true hero cant be an absolutist. Because it can go either way, you can be a Captain America or you can be a Rorshach. When the hero becomes someone who goes "my way or the high way", specially one with the powers of a god, thats disturbing. Thats what leads to scenarios like Red Son and Injustice. A true hero has to be contemplative about his place and his stances, specially when he/she has the power to destroy the whole human race.

Then I would say it's good thing that WW ain't Superman.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

#NotTheBvSThread

I recognize that, but any statement of comparison or contrast between BvS and WW opens that door. Such statements, if subjective in nature, are valueless unless the person's stance on both can be fully understood.

I.e. If you've had apples and like them, but have never had an orange, and somebody tells you that oranges don't suck like apples do, that statement is meaningless unless you understand why that person hates apples.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I recognize that, but any statement of comparison or contrast between BvS and WW opens that door. Such statements, if subjective in nature, are valueless unless the person's stance on both can be fully understood.

I.e. If you've had apples and like them, but have never had an orange, and somebody tells you that oranges don't suck like apples do, that statement is meaningless unless you understand why that person hates apples.

I get where you're coming from but there's an entire BvS sub forum where all of that can be discussed, no??

Also I love BvS UC so I don't wanna see JMC hate on the movie any more than he already has.

 

[liveman789]

I disagree about BvS, I think it was exactly what it wanted to be. It wasn't what critics wanted it to be, it wasn't what a large chunk of the fandom wanted it to be, but I think Zack made exactly the movie he wanted to make, and then WB cut half an hour out of it, to it's clear detriment. But the Ultimate Edition is clearly the movie Zack wanted, and apart from a couple of minor missteps, it's magnificent.

The Ultimate Edition was a slight improvement but it was still a poorly made movie after that. Had more potential with a better director and less studio nonsense.

 

[Binker]

A little off topic, but I was watching Wonder Woman (2009) recently, and knowing how the gender issue element is not in the 2017 film, I cannot be anymore thankful; especially since the gender issues in the animated film is what makes the movie so cringe worthy, that i cannot watch it. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[liveman789]

A little off topic, but I was watching Wonder Woman (2009) recently, and knowing how the gender issue element is not in the 2017 film, I cannot be anymore thankful; especially since the gender issues in the animated film is what makes the movie so cringe worthy, that i cannot watch it. Anyone else feel the same?

Yeah from what I've heard, I'm glad it's not banged over our heads in this.

 

[jmc]

I actually think it was handled well in the animated movie.

 

[idiot09]

Then I would say it's good thing that WW ain't Superman.

Exactly.They are similar characters, yet very different. One was brought up in a magical island, protected and where she had a peaceful life. While Clark was brought up in our cynical world. Diana had her parents, she knew her people, she belonged. Clark never belonged, he was ostrasized by the society, he only had his parents, and he has to make his world "small". Diana grew up being proud of who she is, of her heritage, and knowing what she is doing is right. Clark grew up not knowing what's right and wrong in this ever growing morally grey world, he asked "Did god do this to me?". He didnt know.

They are fundamentally different characters. Clark faced all the bows and arrows of society and this repugnant world, which Diana never had to. He took one for the team and the league, and because of his example and inspired by him, the rest of the league can now come out of the shadows, including Diana.

Both hero in their own right, but very different heroes.

 

[idiot09]

Yeah from what I've heard, I'm glad it's not banged over our heads in this.

I thought they made Steve Trevor too much of a dick in that movie..I hope Pine isnt like that.

 

[jemoen]

Exactly.They are similar characters, yet very different. One was brought up in a magical island, protected and where she had a peaceful life. While Clark was brought up in our cynical world. Diana had her parents, she knew her people, she belonged. Clark never belonged, he was ostrasized by the society, he only had his parents, and he has to make his world "small". Diana grew up being proud of who she is, of her heritage, and knowing what she is doing is right. Clark grew up not knowing what's right and wrong in this ever growing morally grey world, he asked "Did god do this to me?". He didnt know.

They are fundamentally different characters. Clark faced all the bows and arrows of society and this repugnant world, which Diana never had to. He took one for the team and the league, and because of his example and inspired by him, the rest of the league can now come out of the shadows, including Diana.

Both hero in their own right, but very different heroes.

 

[def28]

Just saw this.

Solid flick and pretty much hit what I wanted in the film. Love Gal in the role and I can't picture anyone playing Diana anymore. The tone and balance between the drama and comedy was well played. Gonna be a crowd pleaser for sure.

Any complaints I had were pretty minimal. I don't think this hits any sort of Superhero high for DC like say Dark Knight but it's a great first entry and easily the strongest from DC since The Dark Knight. Post Suicide Squad, this is definitely what they needed, and I heard people outside of the theatre talking about how this film was enough to give them confidence in future projects. So good to see the change of options on the DCU. Overall this was always great fun and treated the characters with respect.


With my minor complains, at times it was by the numbers from a narrative level and some of the VFX looked jarring. But nothing near the level of ruining the film as a whole. Too much good going on.

With the ending...

Spoiler

I would have liked the fight with Ares to be a bit more balanced with the editing, the parallel cutting to other characters got rid of the tension with Diana and Ares imo and there were definitely times when I think Snyder displayed her action scenes visually stronger in BvS. After Steve dies she goes into a fury and starts doing some Faora time moves but it just doesn't look that good. Like MOS I think the prior major set piece to the final battle completely upstaged the main fight, which was a bit disappointing. Always nice to walk out on a high note.

8/10

 

[rickfox]

just out of cinema

me and friends we all agree this is a great piece of work, personally I think third act has a little bit pacing issue

but over all, we really enjoy it,

Thank you ,Patty Jenkins, Zack Snyder, Gal Gadot ,Chris Pine and the others

I will watch it again within next 48 hours

( I never read one chapter of DC,Mavel comic books, never watch an episode of DC cartoon,watched a few episodes of marvel cartoon, never watched any episode of dc or marvel tv drama, never purchase any dc or marvel toys or merchandise)

 

[Sleiek]

About to watch it now.

Nothing better than watching a new DC movie at the end of a very long work day.

 

[markjoedelonge]

I thought they made Steve Trevor too much of a dick in that movie..I hope Pine isnt like that.

He's not.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

I am really happy about the movie.
IMO it's important to remember that some times ago, we read and commented articles like this

https://moviepilot.com/p/wonder-woman-and-justice-league-movies-in-trouble-say-sources/4189163

 

[Link]

She's positive because of her privilege -- the privilege she has as an outsider and someone raised as a special princess. White people and men often have a more positive outlook on the world compared to people of color and women, because they have grown up in a world where they felt secure. That isn't to say I dislike having that kind of idealism portrayed, but I do think it's unfair to compare her mindset to people like Superman who grew up knowing the world and who went further than Diana by putting himself in front of the human race as a public figure under public scrutiny.

What about her was uniquely feminine other than physically? I notice that you bash Superman for sulking, which is just a derogatory spin on his being sensitive, pensive, and emotional, which are supposedly more feminine traits. It's fascinating how it's empowering and acceptable for a female hero to be both strong and vulnerable, but if a male hero shows vulnerability, it's scoffed at and derided.

You completely misunderstood my point. How is Superman not privileged? He's a white male, the group you mentioned as the most privileged kind, has a great job, family, girlfriend AND superpowers to go with it. Wonder Woman perfectly portrayed everything one would expect from a good Superman adaption in this film, and more. You seem to enjoy this current iteration of Superman so all power to you, but I'm not satisfied with him being written like a diet Batman.

Both Wonder Woman and Superman go through hard turns, but in this film universe only one them cope with it in a way that you would expect from the character.

What comes to those feminine qualities I mentioned, I meant compassion as the most important one. How Wonder Woman emotes in this film is beautiful. There hasn't been anything like this in superhero cinema since Donner's Superman. I love troubled superheroes like Batman and Wolverine, but I had no idea how much I needed to see someone so hopeful and loving as Wonder Woman.

 

[Binker]

I actually think it was handled well in the animated movie.

Well they became straw feminists, which was weird since a woman directed the animated film too. It was the way they were handled that made them unlikable. I find this alot with modern versions of WW: the DCAU was similar, which is why I don't like that version; and at first I liked the 2009 film, but over time, even that was has criticism. We won't go into the 2011 pilot, nor her portrayal in JLW; but going back to 2009 film, I wonder what it would be like if those things weren't in the film at all. Instead the thing between Diana and the Amazons on Steve and Man's World weren't based on gender issues but of what has changed versus what hasn't, and whether returning to the outside world would reopen old pasts.

 

[Link]

I am really happy about the movie.
IMO it's important to remember that some times ago, we read and commented articles like this

https://moviepilot.com/p/wonder-woman-and-justice-league-movies-in-trouble-say-sources/4189163

Yeah, I mean they don't even have deleted scenes since the production was so smooth. I admit that those rumors scared me back in the day, but it's good to remember that rumors are just rumors. So happy that this film is such a wild success, I need to see it again.