All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[valmont]

Have a great time and enjoy it! I know I did. Repeatedly...t:

I sure will, thanks t:

Enregistrer​

 

[Black Narcissus]

Eh, If Patty took on another cb film it would be cool. I would not mind another female director on WW sequel either.

 

[ajzz]

Wonder Woman renames Spongebob

 

[Osiris-Rex]

My guess is, she *technically* has a secret identity, in that she doesn't have bright neon signs above her home reading "I AM WONDER WOMAN". However, she doesn't put a huge amount of effort into concealing herself, either. If you actually pay attention to her, you pretty quickly realize she's *some* kind of woman of mystery.

In the movie Wonder Woman movie she is never even called Wonder Woman so she doesn't even have a public identity, like Batman and Superman do. And about the only ones that saw Diana Prince and the demi-goddess
at the same time were Steve, Etta, Sameer, Charlie, and Chief. So the need for a secret indentity never even came up. I suppose that could change in the sequels though. Was she called Wonder Woman in Batman v Superman?
I don't remember that she was.

Eh, If Patty took on another cb film it would be cool. I would not mind another female director on WW sequel either.

It's a moot point. Patty Jenkins is already signed on to do the Wonder Woman sequel and has even announced the location of the next Wonder Woman movie.

Spoiler

The United States.

 

[Dark Raven]

In the movie Wonder Woman movie she is never even called Wonder Woman so she doesn't even have a public identity, like Batman and Superman do. And about the only ones that saw Diana Prince and the demi-goddess
at the same time were Steve, Etta, Sameer, Charlie, and Chief. So the need for a secret indentity never even came up. I suppose that could change in the sequels though. Was she called Wonder Woman in Batman v Superman?
I don't remember that she was.



It's a moot point. Patty Jenkins is already signed on to do the Wonder Woman sequel and has even announced the location of the next Wonder Woman movie.

Spoiler

The United States.

I thought the big news today is that she isn't actually signed onto the sequel yet.

'Wonder Woman' Director Patty Jenkins Not Signed for Sequel

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ector-patty-jenkins-not-signed-sequel-1010845

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I thought the big news today is that she isn't actually signed onto the sequel yet.

'Wonder Woman' Director Patty Jenkins Not Signed for Sequel

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ector-patty-jenkins-not-signed-sequel-1010845

My bad then. I assumed when Patty announced the location of the next Wonder Woman movie, she was the one that decided on the location, and thereby would be the one putting Wonder Woman in that location.

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/wonder-woman/news/a830010/wonder-woman-2-sequel-location/

 

[Flemm]

My bad then. I assumed when Patty announced the location of the next Wonder Woman movie, she was the one that decided on the location, and thereby would be the one putting Wonder Woman in that location.

I guess it's probably just a matter of time until they work out the details.

Anyway, I hope so. Not that another director might not also do a great job, but all things being equal, I'd like the current vibe to continue.

 

[Wonder89]

 

[StormC]

Patty is probably being patient and playing her cards right with her agent(s). She has all the power with the DCEU now, and everybody knows it.

 

[GothamBat]

My Wonder Woman review (spoiler-heavy):

Spoiler

Positives:

The grounded-ness of the story was a plus for me. Having it revolve around war, the logistics of war-fare, the planning, the war jargon ect. Those touchstones that helped ground the story were a plus. The presence and revelance of tactics, stratagems, planning, meetings, high ranking military officials and stuff. Having the characters navigate through the logistics of how they would accomplish what they had to accomplish. Every character had their own mannerisms and backstory and you could feel them as products of the cumulative experiences and traumas they went through.

I liked how naturally everyone acted and talked. I hate how they stage and deliver dialogue in the MCU movies where it's like.. so contrived and never feels like real speech and I just see actors delivering very artificial, pre-coinceived catch phrases and one-liners. The dialogue here was delivered in a really believable way, people stuttered, stumbled over their words, talked over each other and I never felt like anyone was reading lines.

For what it's worth I loved those 3 odd seconds of seeing Ares in live action back when he was in his prime, with his Greco-Roman get up, all buff, getting struck by lightening. It looked really neat and I so desperately wish we could have seen Zeus, Poseidon and co. in the flesh as well as more of Ares in his prime. In fact, I feel like a lengthy MOS style backstory with all the greek gods in live action at the very beggining would have sky-rocketted my appreciation for this movie.

I like the Ares reveal, what he said to Diana, and the vision. Also appreciated that there was a bit of sound internal logic behind the vision itself because it happened via the lasso of Hastia and, as a weapon with magical properties that allow it to influence people on a cognitive level, it made sense for it to be the conduit for the vision due to it being something that has a neurological interface properties. I'm pretty sure they had the Zod vision in mind when they wrote the scene because Diana says "I can't be a part of this" which is exactly what Clark says during his vision in MOS.

Speaking of the vision, I loved just how many powers Ares had. Teleportation, telekinesis, lightening powers, giving people visions, flight, that mental projection thing he did to inspire and whisper ideas to Maru, manipulation of matter and energy ect. He really felt like an entity that went above and beyond everything else we've seen so far, as he should because he's a deity. as a sidenote though: I hope they don't go too crazy with his powers and stick to clearly defining them and keeping them confined within those clearly defined parameters. I actually like that they didn't make him a scary creature with red glowing eyes and dark skin. The pantheon of greek gods have always outwardly looked like humans. All the amazons are humanoid, as is Diana so it stands to reason that Ares would be too. It would also very severely diminish his threat level if he was just another mindless rampaging monster. Him resembling a human and being well-spoken, lucid and smart made him more eerie and unsettling to me. Thewlis was very good in the role and I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

Scenes that were highlights:

Steve's death was beautifully done. I loved how much he paused before shooting. I loved that he had the heart-felt scene with her but she couldn't hear and then they flashed back to it, filling in the gaps and letting us the audience hear what was said. I loved the elation on Pine's face in tandem to the awareness that he had to die. Man was that beautiful. Gadot's cry of anguish was on point too. How she writhed and yelled felt very authentic.

Every scene with Ludendorff basically. The gala scene was tense as was his first introduction, the scene with the other generals, his death scene felt brutal and tense and it made you grit your teeth and cringe but in a good way.

Again, the Ares reveal scene. Very haunting.

The no man's land scene although I feel compelled to add that it really wasn't like one of the best scenes in cinema and it's kind of undeservedly hyped up as something it kind of isn't. It's a fine scene but it won't be etched in my mind and soul forever like you'd think it should be from all the high praise it's receiving.

Steve crash landing and being rescued by Diana. Nice POV shot of him in the water, unable to get out of the aircraft before being rescued.

The scene with Doctor Poison experimenting on that guy with the gas mask, with her getting frustrated and pulling that lever that made the mask get ripped off his face. brutal and dark and a "oh snap!" scene.

The scene with Steve hijacking the plane and him blowing up the lab. That explosion was intense. Usually explosions are a dime a dozen in movies but how he was perpendicular to it and how it made the airplane wobble as the flames almost engulfed him was pretty awesome. The color correction of that scene was interesting. Very heavy, saturated yellow tones but low contrast. Gave it a very old-timey war aesthetic which I appreciated.

Negatives:

I absolutely hated how the Germans spoke in English to each other. Maru and Ludendorff made sense because she's Turkish and he's German. But the German generals and Ludendorff? The soldiers who were chasing Steve? And there were a ton of other instances with Germans speaking in english like at the gala and so on. Speaking of languages how much cooler would it have been to have the amazons speak ancient greek? They have Gadot speak in ancient Greek for a bit and the Amazons had a relatively limited amount of screentime so having at least some of their dialogue in Greek felt doable.

Editing-wise it felt a bit choppy. Maru gets pulled out of her car during the climax and she stumbles and falls face first in the rubble. The next shot we see of her is an extreme close-up of her face with her looking all fierce and angsty and then the mask get blown off. I felt like some intermediate shots were necessary. It felt kind of rushed like there should have been a transitional shot of her disposition changing from bewildered to angry and composed. Also the scene where the first Amazon gets shot, we see her dangling body without much of an interlude between her being shot and her dangling lifeless frame. It was so abrupt that it kind of stepped ever so slightly into unintentional comedy. A slight lack of establishing shots too which bothered me about the theatrical cut of BVS and while it's a lot better here, it was still noticeable.

Teenage Diana's nose is nothing like Gal Gadot's nose and her accent was way off. (hey they gave young Bruce Ben Affleck's mole in BVS so I hold them to high standards now when it comes to attention to detail) Also she was completely uneccessary. She has like one 1 minute scene and then they age her up to Gal. The kids they chose also aren't like Gal (ethnically). That felt really weird to me... Caucasian little british girl turns into another little white girl... who then turns into the tan and exotic looking Gal Gadot.... that's like making young Clark semi-asian. It just felt.. dumb.

I really didn't like baby Diana like at all. Her being all eager to train and be a warrior felt... cheap and baby groot-esque in that she was just a vehicle for people to go "awww". Kind of wish we had started with grown up Diana. I don't hate kids ok? Ok maybe a touch but young Clark was great as was young Bruce so that natural dis-inclination of mine can be circumvented as long as their scenes are good.

Etta Candy could have been cut out of the movie and nothing would have changed. Actually, cutting her out would have made it so there wasn't a groan-worthy moment of her pointing Diana's sword at a random bad guy and saying something quippy and contrived. So the movie would have been marginally better.

Some of the scenes with action in them (not fighting, just action) felt ill-conceived in the sense that too much was happening, they were too busy and I couldn't successfully determine where to direct my attention. The fight with the Germans on the beach and the Amazons training come to mind. I felt like so many things were happening in the same shot and there was no clear focal point. I feel there needs to be a balance, you don't want action and mis-en-scene to be unpacked and digested instantly otherwise everything feels hollow but you also don't want to clumsily put too much on the screen and make the viewer feel like he missed half of it or cross into sensory overload territory. Sometimes (not always) the movie totally failed to strike that balance and gave us (well I'm speaking for myself) too much to unpack in too little time and all at once.

the song that played in the credits... That was perfect for the fight with Ares. It was a beautiful, taut, high-octane piece of music that would have fit a fight scene so well. A week or so ago, some guy even linked it, saying it's the song that played during their final confrontation. I was really looking forward to it. But no... it only plays in the credits. Speaking of the score this felt like such a let-down. It was a generic score to me. Nothing really stood out. This to me, is the first DCEU movie with a standard, conventional score that you kind of just forget about during and after the movie. I heard it all before seeing the movie and I thought it would really pop when it accompanied the scenes but sadly it didn't to me.

I thought Steve's crew were boring at best and annoying at worst. the cliche'd gang of misfits. They were all archetypes and walking tropes. The dumb, loud, blundering drunk has-been. The silent, soft-spoken, gentle one. The mischief-maker, wise guy scoundrel. Very cliche'd and I'm happy with where they sit canonically because it means that they're all dead in present day. I didn't care one bit about seeing them all intermingle and I'm a bit dissapointed none of them were killed in the movie itself. Not because I hated them but because it might have made me appreciate them more.

The final battle was underwhelming. It felt disjointed and fragmentary. Not like an actual fight. No mano y mano. Just Ares telepathically flinging crap at her and not much else. The cgi was unconvincing and the choreography basically non existent.

Some things that would have made me like the movie more: more action scenes with more stand-out moments. The action felt perfunctory and I wanted more of it in both volume and quality.

More backstory with the gods. I wish we could have seen Zeus and the old gods in all their glory.

Better dialogue and more Ludendorff and Sir Patrick.

That might have bumped it up to a 7 or even higher but overall it just didn't grab me. I give it a 6.2. I will end with one last major positive though: I was really scared about them ret-conning Diana's "I walked away from mankind" speech from BVS and they really didn't. It's not as clear-cut as her quitting mankind and walking away but it's made clear that she understands that humans have both good and evil in them and it's pointless to put on her armor and "kill the bad guy" because it's nowhere near as binary and simple as that. She walked away from mankind in the sense that she stopped trying to save the day as an ambassador of the gods. I thought it struck a very agreeable balance between keeping things consistent with BVS and also not ending on a complete downer note and not making Diana feel like a cynical quitter and someone who bears ill-will towards the human race.

 

[jmc]

I thought the big news today is that she isn't actually signed onto the sequel yet.

'Wonder Woman' Director Patty Jenkins Not Signed for Sequel

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ector-patty-jenkins-not-signed-sequel-1010845

WB better pony up with the cash then. Overnight she's become the saviour of the entire franchise.

 

[Lighthouse]

Patty just tweeted how she wishes Roger Ebert were around to review WW, and Chaz Ebert responded saying he would've been really proud of her. I remember when Monster came out, Ebert was a HUGE supporter of that film.

 

[Sundancer]

edit

 

[jmc]

Actually, not only is Patty inline to demand a much higher pay day, she can pretty much demand creative control over the entire sequel. She's more or less now on the same path Nolan was after Batman Begins.

 

[dhandler01]

Yep which is why she didnt sign before. WB isnt going to low ball her either they will give her the same deal Affleck got when his career turned around. She will basically be able to pick her projects.

 

[jmc]

I don't recall Nolan being signed up for multiple films either. It's almost an identical situation to BB. She's really got all the chips in this game.

 

[Paradox1]

I don't think Patty wants creative control per se as much as get funding for her passion projects outside of WW.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[Black Narcissus]

One of the all female screenings.

 

[Brother Jack]

Actually, not only is Patty inline to demand a much higher pay day, she can pretty much demand creative control over the entire sequel. She's more or less now on the same path Nolan was after Batman Begins.

That's a really good analogy. Because in both cases they elevated the brand out of a slump with their success. My ideal would be a Jenkins-directed WW trilogy, if the DCEU can allow for it.

 

[jmc]

That's a really good analogy. Because in both cases they elevated the brand out of a slump with their success. My ideal would be a Jenkins-directed WW trilogy, if the DCEU can allow for it.

Situation is almost identical. Timelines are almost the same too, if you want to include Green Lantern it is the same.

 

[flickchick85]

Actually one pretty significant piece of the puzzle is different: Jeff Robinov. The guy who had a handshake loyalty relationship with Nolan, who is no longer the president of WB.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Actually one pretty significant piece of the puzzle is different: Jeff Robinov. The guy who had a handshake loyalty relationship with Nolan, who is no longer the president of WB.

I still feel like WB is by far a more friendly studio to their directors in general tho. Snyder's deal with them was extended after his tragedy etc. George Miller mentioned how WB suits wanted to make up over the JL fallout with Mad Max immediately after.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

My Wonder Woman review (spoiler-heavy):

Spoiler

Positives:

The grounded-ness of the story was a plus for me. Having it revolve around war, the logistics of war-fare, the planning, the war jargon ect. Those touchstones that helped ground the story were a plus. The presence and revelance of tactics, stratagems, planning, meetings, high ranking military officials and stuff. Having the characters navigate through the logistics of how they would accomplish what they had to accomplish. Every character had their own mannerisms and backstory and you could feel them as products of the cumulative experiences and traumas they went through.

I liked how naturally everyone acted and talked. I hate how they stage and deliver dialogue in the MCU movies where it's like.. so contrived and never feels like real speech and I just see actors delivering very artificial, pre-coinceived catch phrases and one-liners. The dialogue here was delivered in a really believable way, people stuttered, stumbled over their words, talked over each other and I never felt like anyone was reading lines.

For what it's worth I loved those 3 odd seconds of seeing Ares in live action back when he was in his prime, with his Greco-Roman get up, all buff, getting struck by lightening. It looked really neat and I so desperately wish we could have seen Zeus, Poseidon and co. in the flesh as well as more of Ares in his prime. In fact, I feel like a lengthy MOS style backstory with all the greek gods in live action at the very beggining would have sky-rocketted my appreciation for this movie.

I like the Ares reveal, what he said to Diana, and the vision. Also appreciated that there was a bit of sound internal logic behind the vision itself because it happened via the lasso of Hastia and, as a weapon with magical properties that allow it to influence people on a cognitive level, it made sense for it to be the conduit for the vision due to it being something that has a neurological interface properties. I'm pretty sure they had the Zod vision in mind when they wrote the scene because Diana says "I can't be a part of this" which is exactly what Clark says during his vision in MOS.

Speaking of the vision, I loved just how many powers Ares had. Teleportation, telekinesis, lightening powers, giving people visions, flight, that mental projection thing he did to inspire and whisper ideas to Maru, manipulation of matter and energy ect. He really felt like an entity that went above and beyond everything else we've seen so far, as he should because he's a deity. as a sidenote though: I hope they don't go too crazy with his powers and stick to clearly defining them and keeping them confined within those clearly defined parameters. I actually like that they didn't make him a scary creature with red glowing eyes and dark skin. The pantheon of greek gods have always outwardly looked like humans. All the amazons are humanoid, as is Diana so it stands to reason that Ares would be too. It would also very severely diminish his threat level if he was just another mindless rampaging monster. Him resembling a human and being well-spoken, lucid and smart made him more eerie and unsettling to me. Thewlis was very good in the role and I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

Scenes that were highlights:

Steve's death was beautifully done. I loved how much he paused before shooting. I loved that he had the heart-felt scene with her but she couldn't hear and then they flashed back to it, filling in the gaps and letting us the audience hear what was said. I loved the elation on Pine's face in tandem to the awareness that he had to die. Man was that beautiful. Gadot's cry of anguish was on point too. How she writhed and yelled felt very authentic.

Every scene with Ludendorff basically. The gala scene was tense as was his first introduction, the scene with the other generals, his death scene felt brutal and tense and it made you grit your teeth and cringe but in a good way.

Again, the Ares reveal scene. Very haunting.

The no man's land scene although I feel compelled to add that it really wasn't like one of the best scenes in cinema and it's kind of undeservedly hyped up as something it kind of isn't. It's a fine scene but it won't be etched in my mind and soul forever like you'd think it should be from all the high praise it's receiving.

Steve crash landing and being rescued by Diana. Nice POV shot of him in the water, unable to get out of the aircraft before being rescued.

The scene with Doctor Poison experimenting on that guy with the gas mask, with her getting frustrated and pulling that lever that made the mask get ripped off his face. brutal and dark and a "oh snap!" scene.

The scene with Steve hijacking the plane and him blowing up the lab. That explosion was intense. Usually explosions are a dime a dozen in movies but how he was perpendicular to it and how it made the airplane wobble as the flames almost engulfed him was pretty awesome. The color correction of that scene was interesting. Very heavy, saturated yellow tones but low contrast. Gave it a very old-timey war aesthetic which I appreciated.

Negatives:

I absolutely hated how the Germans spoke in English to each other. Maru and Ludendorff made sense because she's Turkish and he's German. But the German generals and Ludendorff? The soldiers who were chasing Steve? And there were a ton of other instances with Germans speaking in english like at the gala and so on. Speaking of languages how much cooler would it have been to have the amazons speak ancient greek? They have Gadot speak in ancient Greek for a bit and the Amazons had a relatively limited amount of screentime so having at least some of their dialogue in Greek felt doable.

Editing-wise it felt a bit choppy. Maru gets pulled out of her car during the climax and she stumbles and falls face first in the rubble. The next shot we see of her is an extreme close-up of her face with her looking all fierce and angsty and then the mask get blown off. I felt like some intermediate shots were necessary. It felt kind of rushed like there should have been a transitional shot of her disposition changing from bewildered to angry and composed. Also the scene where the first Amazon gets shot, we see her dangling body without much of an interlude between her being shot and her dangling lifeless frame. It was so abrupt that it kind of stepped ever so slightly into unintentional comedy. A slight lack of establishing shots too which bothered me about the theatrical cut of BVS and while it's a lot better here, it was still noticeable.

Teenage Diana's nose is nothing like Gal Gadot's nose and her accent was way off. (hey they gave young Bruce Ben Affleck's mole in BVS so I hold them to high standards now when it comes to attention to detail) Also she was completely uneccessary. She has like one 1 minute scene and then they age her up to Gal. The kids they chose also aren't like Gal (ethnically). That felt really weird to me... Caucasian little british girl turns into another little white girl... who then turns into the tan and exotic looking Gal Gadot.... that's like making young Clark semi-asian. It just felt.. dumb.

I really didn't like baby Diana like at all. Her being all eager to train and be a warrior felt... cheap and baby groot-esque in that she was just a vehicle for people to go "awww". Kind of wish we had started with grown up Diana. I don't hate kids ok? Ok maybe a touch but young Clark was great as was young Bruce so that natural dis-inclination of mine can be circumvented as long as their scenes are good.

Etta Candy could have been cut out of the movie and nothing would have changed. Actually, cutting her out would have made it so there wasn't a groan-worthy moment of her pointing Diana's sword at a random bad guy and saying something quippy and contrived. So the movie would have been marginally better.

Some of the scenes with action in them (not fighting, just action) felt ill-conceived in the sense that too much was happening, they were too busy and I couldn't successfully determine where to direct my attention. The fight with the Germans on the beach and the Amazons training come to mind. I felt like so many things were happening in the same shot and there was no clear focal point. I feel there needs to be a balance, you don't want action and mis-en-scene to be unpacked and digested instantly otherwise everything feels hollow but you also don't want to clumsily put too much on the screen and make the viewer feel like he missed half of it or cross into sensory overload territory. Sometimes (not always) the movie totally failed to strike that balance and gave us (well I'm speaking for myself) too much to unpack in too little time and all at once.

the song that played in the credits... That was perfect for the fight with Ares. It was a beautiful, taut, high-octane piece of music that would have fit a fight scene so well. A week or so ago, some guy even linked it, saying it's the song that played during their final confrontation. I was really looking forward to it. But no... it only plays in the credits. Speaking of the score this felt like such a let-down. It was a generic score to me. Nothing really stood out. This to me, is the first DCEU movie with a standard, conventional score that you kind of just forget about during and after the movie. I heard it all before seeing the movie and I thought it would really pop when it accompanied the scenes but sadly it didn't to me.

I thought Steve's crew were boring at best and annoying at worst. the cliche'd gang of misfits. They were all archetypes and walking tropes. The dumb, loud, blundering drunk has-been. The silent, soft-spoken, gentle one. The mischief-maker, wise guy scoundrel. Very cliche'd and I'm happy with where they sit canonically because it means that they're all dead in present day. I didn't care one bit about seeing them all intermingle and I'm a bit dissapointed none of them were killed in the movie itself. Not because I hated them but because it might have made me appreciate them more.

The final battle was underwhelming. It felt disjointed and fragmentary. Not like an actual fight. No mano y mano. Just Ares telepathically flinging crap at her and not much else. The cgi was unconvincing and the choreography basically non existent.

Some things that would have made me like the movie more: more action scenes with more stand-out moments. The action felt perfunctory and I wanted more of it in both volume and quality.

More backstory with the gods. I wish we could have seen Zeus and the old gods in all their glory.

Better dialogue and more Ludendorff and Sir Patrick.

That might have bumped it up to a 7 or even higher but overall it just didn't grab me. I give it a 6.2. I will end with one last major positive though: I was really scared about them ret-conning Diana's "I walked away from mankind" speech from BVS and they really didn't. It's not as clear-cut as her quitting mankind and walking away but it's made clear that she understands that humans have both good and evil in them and it's pointless to put on her armor and "kill the bad guy" because it's nowhere near as binary and simple as that. She walked away from mankind in the sense that she stopped trying to save the day as an ambassador of the gods. I thought it struck a very agreeable balance between keeping things consistent with BVS and also not ending on a complete downer note and not making Diana feel like a cynical quitter and someone who bears ill-will towards the human race.

I think they used two younger actresses playing Diana to show how long Antiope had been training her in secret. Had they used the same little girl and then had Hippolyta discover them, it may have looked like they'd only been training for a few days or weeks. It made sense to me and I thought both girls looked fine (if you compare a young photo of Gal to the girl who plays her as a child, there are similarties - there has been a comparison photo posted here at some point)

I suppose it wouldn't have seemed so "pointless" had they used teen Diana for a few more scenes... but I think she was only there to bridge the gap between girl and woman.

 

[flickchick85]

I still feel like WB is by far a more friendly studio to their directors in general tho. Snyder's deal with them was extended after his tragedy etc. George Miller mentioned how WB suits wanted to make up over the JL fallout with Mad Max immediately after.

Well I certainly hope so. Patty deserves the best treatment after this.