All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion

[flickchick85]

This Stars filming soon, right? Will we be getting casting news in the next few weeks? I hope we get some GoT alums.

I need Nikolaj in a CBM stat. He could do the arrogance of one of the gods very well, imo.

But if THR's correct and this does start filming in the Fall, then I agree we'll probably get some of the bigger casting announcements around SDCC.

 

[Mad Love]

When you said that I automatically thought of

 

[queendarkness12]

I would like to see a familiar DCCU face in this movie, just to provide the connective tissue.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Yuck. How about we find out if WW can stand on her own? IM Thor and Cap didnt have the benefit of a previous intro (BvS), and the first WW film ever certainly doesnt need cameos or clever segues or allusions to other characters. Show some confidence that the character and the actress can stand up on their own.

Instead of supporting the movie with unnecessary tangential elements, focus every second of screen time on Wondie and her milieu. Anyone pining for signs of a broader universe can take solace in the fact that WB has shrewdly hedged their bets by sandwiching the film between two teamup movies - that also feature Wonder Woman. Hell, you could say that Wondie is the connective tissue.

Be happy with a likely (though given the aforementioned sandwiching, unnecessary) credits scene alluding to JL (or Flash, or Aquaman, or...)

 

[Black Narcissus]

It all depends on the story for WW.

Hinting allusions or cameos is not lack of confidence. This does not make it any less of a WW film. We don't know if her solo film leads up to JL.

Im and Cap had their stand alone flicks before their team up, DC is going straight into it after their first film. Different formula.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Yes that makes it even less necessary. We already know Wondie is connected to this bigger world and these other characters - a world theyre revisiting almost immediately (JL, which is set up by BvS) They can tease JL during the credits (id prefer a tease of a ww sequel or a new characters solo movie), but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to waste screen time on that stuff, especially if its an origin story.

And i find it funny that fans want WB/DC to repeat Marvels Phase 1 mistakes. As you say, DC has its own plan, and this plan doesnt require setting up the larger universe. A redundant waste of time.

Let Wondie have her own self contained story. She deserves it.

Edit: all that said, id love to see some easter eggs to the ww comics. Not holding my breath though.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Yes that makes it even less necessary. We already know Wondie is connected to this bigger world and these other characters - a world theyre revisiting almost immediately (JL, which is set up by BvS) They can tease JL during the credits (id prefer a tease of a ww sequel or a new characters solo movie), but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to waste screen time on that stuff, especially if its an origin story.

And i find it funny that fans want WB/DC to repeat Marvels Phase 1 mistakes. As you say, DC has its own plan, and this plan doesnt require setting up the larger universe. A redundant waste of time.

Let Wondie have her own self contained story. She deserves it.

Well, we don't know that.

I for one would rather see a WW story on the island etc.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Either way. Its immaterial to my point.

But how can we not get an origin story? Im not saying we need to track her from birth, but it would be bizarre if they introduce Diana in BvS and then, in her very first solo movie EVER, they skip over her origins. That makes no sense whatsoever. Which is why im not concerned. You may be defining "origin story" too narrowly (see: Thor)

 

[Mad Love]

I would like to see a familiar DCCU face in this movie, just to provide the connective tissue.

Lois Lane! She's the first person that gets invited to visit Themyscira.

When Wonder Woman reveals herself to the world, she could invite Lois Lane to Themyscira to do an report that would dispel people's preconceptions about the Amazons.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Sigh

 

[Black Narcissus]

Either way. Its immaterial to my point.

But how can we not get an origin story? Im not saying we need to track her from birth, but it would be bizarre if they introduce Diana in BvS and then, in her very first solo movie EVER, they skip over her origins. That makes no sense whatsoever. Which is why im not concerned. You may be defining "origin story" too narrowly (see: Thor)

Uh, I thought you meant from birth and so forth; rumored 1920s plot etc.

My mistake.

 

[Mad Love]

You may be defining "origin story" too narrowly (see: Thor)

Not really making sense. Marvel's Phase 1 mistakes? Those movies were all successful and allowed for sequels. The connected movies are what contributed to their success.

Making her movie completely isolated doesn't 'solve' what you perceive as a 'mistake', because it doesn't automatically make the movie good.

DC is establishing a shared universe so why would they ignore that now? You seem to have a narrow view of what her origin movie could be. Connecting the outside world is inherently part of her origin with Steve Trevor landing in Themyscira. They can connect characters and details with other movies while keeping the plot of her origin entirely separate.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Uh, I thought you meant from birth and so forth; rumored 1920s plot etc.

My mistake.

Nah. Just how she becomes Wonder Woman. The events leading up to her putting on the outfit and taking up the superhero mantle. If they want to show her mom getting busy with Zeus (or whatever) thats fine, but we didnt need a birth for thor or cap or stark. In SH movies, the origin refers to the events leading up to the individual becoming the titular superhero.

Birth/infant scenes are optional. (Except for space jesu.. uh, superman)

Edit: and of course im not talking about isolating her from the outside world or from characters of her own canon. But in her very first solo movie she doesnt need, off the top of my head, Lois Lane showing up or an Aquaman "swim-by". plenty of untapped material from her own lore without wasting time with that crap.

And since her intro in BvS instantly connects her to the broader DCCU - an entire 2.5 hour movie - theres just no need for it. At all.

 

[Mad Love]

Nah. Just how she becomes Wonder Woman. The events leading up to her putting on the outfit and taking up the superhero mantle. If they want to show her mom getting busy with Zeus (or whatever) thats fine, but we didnt need a birth for thor or cap or stark. In SH movies, the origin refers to the events leading up to the individual becoming the titular superhero. Birth/infant scenes are optiknal. (Except for space jesu.. uh, superman)

That blanket statement isn't true at all. The reason why we didn't see the birth of Thor, Cap, or IM is because it doesn't inform their character.

Characters like Loki, Superman, and Wonder Woman on the other hand have significant births that mean something to their developed character. Loki was exchanged at birth, Superman is the last son of Krypton, WW is the daughter of the Queen of Amazons and the King of the Gods. Those births resonate to who they are when they mature.

 

[Bwahaha!]

I want it all. Plenty of historical scenes, which can be flashbacks, showing Diana alive during various centuries to show her immortality. Ancient scenes depicting how the Amazons came to be on the island and finally something in modern day that in a huge way leads into the JL movie, which releases a few months later.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Nah. Just how she becomes Wonder Woman. The events leading up to her putting on the outfit and taking up the superhero mantle. If they want to show her mom getting busy with Zeus (or whatever) thats fine, but we didnt need a birth for thor or cap or stark. In SH movies, the origin refers to the events leading up to the individual becoming the titular superhero.

Birth/infant scenes are optional. (Except for space jesu.. uh, superman)

Edit: and of course im not talking about isolating her from the outside world or from characters of her own canon. But in her very first solo movie she doesnt need, off the top of my head, Lois Lane showing up or an Aquaman "swim-by". plenty of untapped material from her own lore without wasting time with that crap.

I know what origin story means in a SH movie, mane. I was just confusing you with another poster...who wanted to see her origin from birth and as a kid etc. My mistake.

I also agree with your second part. A brief mention or hint of the other heroes wouldn't hurt, but it isn't necessary.

 

[Mad Love]

Edit: and of course im not talking about isolating her from the outside world or from characters of her own canon. But in her very first solo movie she doesnt need, off the top of my head, Lois Lane showing up or an Aquaman "swim-by". plenty of untapped material from her own lore without wasting time with that crap.

You don't know what solo origin "needs" because you don't know its arc.

In MOS, we go from Superman being born to him fighting Zod in Metropolis. The origin movie can span a lot of time.

Lois Lane going to Themyscira is in the comics and part of her lore, but you decide what's needed or what's wasting time?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

If you think Lois Lane is an essential part of her mythos i dont know what to tell you. Inserting her into a WW origin story in order to "connect" Wondie to Supes and Metropolis (already handled in BvS, not that it matters) is ridiculous. It shrinks the world to unbrlievable levels, serves no purpose, and takes time away from characters that are imortant to WWs mythos (hint: not supermans girlfriend). Heck, a brand new character would be preferable. There are other reporters in the dccu Earth. Some are even "Pulitzer prize winning journalists!".

Im vociferous about this because its just the kind of boneheaded Prequel-esque idea that happens in genre films all the time. All because they think fans want all their favorite characters to join the party. No.

 

[Mad Love]

You're making too many presumptions. Including Lois Lane isn't about connecting Wonder Woman to Superman. Apparently you don't recognize her as her own character in the DCU. Making up another Pulitzer Prize journalist just to serve the same exact purpose as Lois is tedious and redundant. That's what would be unnecessary. Not to mention that Lois has the most experience covering metahumans, so it's completely realistic that she would do it with her high profile. It's how the real world works. Sure, it doesn't have to be Lois Lane, but it could be, there's no good reason why it shouldn't be her, and that's how it was in the comics.

There are plenty of characters that aren't essential to a character's origin that are included in an origin movie. Was Colonel Hardy essential to Superman's origin? Hamilton? Faora? Zod? They could have used different villians instead. Was Bruce Wayne's satellite essential? The story dictates what's necessary and essential. And, not every detail has to be about necessity because movies are works of art, not a machine.

If you think WW's origin alone can fill up 2 hours and tell a meaningful arc, I don't know what to tell you. Origins are meaningless if you don't show events that establish the character's importance. Look at every superhero origin movie. It's not only about their origin. There's always a plot that pulls the protagonist towards a challenge to overcome. The character has to do something after they get their costume.

These characters are key players in the DCU. It would be less believable if they didn't interact. You can be against it all you want, but that's not how films or comics work. Events and characters are suppose to be interconnected in a shared universe. Making WW's origin very contained doesn't make much sense. Like I said, it's part of her origin story for the outside to enter her world and for WW to join the rest of the world. It wouldn't be smart business-wise either. WW is sandwiched between BvS and JL. Why would they have the WW movie ignore that when they could use it to draw in more people into her movie?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

You're making too many presumptions. Including Lois Lane isn't about connecting Wonder Woman to Superman. Apparently you don't recognize her as her own character in the DCU. Making up another Pulitzer Prize journalist just to serve the same exact purpose as Lois is tedious and redundant. That's what would be unnecessary. Not to mention that Lois has the most experience covering metahumans, so it's completely realistic that she would do it with her high profile. It's how the real world works. Sure, it doesn't have to be Lois Lane, but it could be, there's no good reason why it shouldn't be her, and that's how it was in the comics.

There are plenty of characters that aren't essential to a character's origin that are included in an origin movie. Was Colonel Hardy essential to Superman's origin? Hamilton? Faora? Zod? They could have used different villians instead. Was Bruce Wayne's satellite essential? The story dictates what's necessary and essential. And, not every detail has to be about necessity because movies are works of art, not a machine.

If you think WW's origin alone can fill up 2 hours and tell a meaningful arc, I don't know what to tell you. Origins are meaningless if you don't show events that establish the character's importance. Look at every superhero origin movie. It's not only about their origin. There's always a plot that pulls the protagonist towards a challenge to overcome. The character has to do something after they get their costume.

These characters are key players in the DCU. It would be less believable if they didn't interact. You can be against it all you want, but that's not how films or comics work. Events and characters are suppose to be interconnected in a shared universe. Making WW's origin very contained doesn't make much sense. Like I said, it's part of her origin story for the outside to enter her world and for WW to join the rest of the world. It wouldn't be smart business-wise either. WW is sandwiched between BvS and JL. Why would they have the WW movie ignore that when they could use it to draw in more people into her movie?

So what you're saying is you really want Lois Lane in the Wonder Woman movie. Got it.

 

[Mad Love]

So what you're saying is you really want Lois Lane in the Wonder Woman movie. Got it.

If that's what your comprehension leads you to believe...

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Some people have to always act as though someone pissed in their cereal when discussing this stuff for some reason. I just don't get it.

 

[Mad Love]

Hmm...

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/24/heres-why-wonder-woman-isnt-getting-a-movie-any-time-soon/

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hmm...

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/24/heres-why-wonder-woman-isnt-getting-a-movie-any-time-soon/

Yeah... I don't care if it was written by a woman... That was some lame ass, pseudo-intellectual, reactionary Libertarian/Randian BS that was heavy on surface ideas and pretty much tone deaf about, oh, the last 60 plus years of actual human history. Let's not also forget the usual Libertarian tone of "conspiracy" everywhere. Look, Marston was a strange cat, but even with his out there lifestyle (and lets be honest... Dude lived the life of having multiple wives where one wore a symbol of binding... There's little about "Matriarchy" about that despite what he may have espoused publicly.), even with his stated objectives with WW originally, to be honest WW has grown into something different, as did Superman and did Batman, as did ALL the usual suspects of long lived comic book properties. And again, going back to the conspiratorial nature of the authors writing... Yeah, WW books and projects are coming out because those individual authors chose to write those books, not as some kind of highly planned and coordinated propaganda campaign. Finally... Umm... We are getting a WW film. It's happening. It's a practically a fait acommpli at this point. So... Yeah, a totally useless article filled with Conservative/Libertarian/Reactionary Jibber-Jabber, though I am sure the author feels very proud, fighting the good fight against all the unseen Anti-Market/Anti-Freedom forces that surround us all and threaten all those benevolent Corporations that should really be the ones deciding all things in this world, all by her typing BS on the Internet, something that wouldn't exist without government investment in the first place.

Sorry Mad Love... I have to call them like I see them.

 

[Mad Love]

The title was cheap clickbait.

I think you're being harsh on the author/article for the politcal slant of the website. I'm immensely against Randian philosophy myself. I agree with most of her claims which are echoed by the popularly accepted resources she mentioned along with Marston's own words and actions.

What I find of interest is her suggestion of the Silver Age origin and its similarities with Azzarello's take.