The Dark Knight Rises Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfect?

[BatmanBeyond]

Am I the only one who feels like The Dark Knight Rises lifts Nolan's trilogy to being perfect?

-R

I'd say it certainly adds a sense of completion and fulfillment to it. So yeah, definitely some lifting involved.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

It's not PERFECT, but what is ever perfect?

In TDK and TDKR I missed some of the dark Gotham that Begins had.

I missed some of Batman's detective work (though that's a pretty minor complaint for me).

Batman's voice sounded forced and annoying at times. I'd have wanted something more like Conroy. Though not sure how that would've worked out.

While Joker is the best CBM villain easily, I still missed some of the BTAS Mark Hamill crazyness.

It feels a bit weird that Batman was only active for like 1-2 years before retiring (not counting his return in TDKR). I'm not sure I'm a big fan of that.

Rachel Dawes is easily there with Raimi's MJ as the most terrible love interest. Though mostly because of the awfully annoying Maggie.

The unfortunate death of Ledger. I want a Joker who's present in more than one film.

The bomb plot in TDKR was very generic.


But, minor complaints aside, this is as close to perfect as we'll probably get. This is my absolute favourite trilogy of all time and I can't ask for more.

I agree with this for the most part, though I don't think Rachel was as bad as MJ in Rami's Spider Man movies. For me I wish Bats was more of a detective in these movies and I prefered the Gotham in Batman Begins to the real world locations in DK and DKR. Also the fight scenes on these movies are average at best and borderline on being mediocre in some places particularly, Bats and Banes last fight in Rises, which come to think of it SUCKED big time! This is still my favorite super hero trilogy but I don't think Rises was as amazing as people hyped it up to be, it's good but slightly underwhelming in my book.

 

[Deserana]

Am I the only one who feels like The Dark Knight Rises lifts Nolan's trilogy to being perfect?

-R

100% agree. Rises enhances this trilogy even with its faults.

 

[Binker]

Random question: do you guys think that people who have mixed feelings toward TDKR, rather it be nitpicky or actual flaws, are actually based on 1) them not really paying attention to the film itself and what it's telling vs. what they would've wanted, and 2) the film being something of a multiple viewing and you'll find and realize more and more things about it kinda movie?

 

[Anno_Domini]

A mixture, I'd say. Half of the complaints are something one can answer themselves with the film but they still don't understand, but the other half could very well be 'flaws' in their mind because it's not what they wanted to see.

I mean, some will bring up the notions of the bomb being called so many things, or The Bat reaching the ocean very fast, but that gets overshadowed(which are actual flaws) from the complaints over the eight year gap, or believing the Dent Act isn't elaborated in the film or that Gotham City doesn't have a voice in the film, and those are just nitpicks and not really flaws, imo.

 

[Frodo]

Random question: do you guys think that people who have mixed feelings toward TDKR, rather it be nitpicky or actual flaws, are actually based on 1) them not really paying attention to the film itself and what it's telling vs. what they would've wanted, and 2) the film being something of a multiple viewing and you'll find and realize more and more things about it kinda movie?

The issue is this, ...and this is something that some die hard fans pro and con can't seem to grasp... films are subjective. In other words, people can look at the exact same thing and have very different reactions. Complaints and Compliments can stem from a variety of subjective reasons either in the film, not in the film, what they get from the film, etc.


Now me , I don't ask why someone doesn't view TDKR the way I do. I'll read and listen to their take on the film because i'm always interested in reading other perspectives. But I don't ponder why someone doesn't like something I do or question their motivations because , in the end it only really matters whether I liked or enjoyed the film , not whatever someone feels the same way.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Very different reactions is fine, but there seems to be a very thin line where people point to flaws in their own minds as plot holes.

 

[Alex Logan]

Random question: do you guys think that people who have mixed feelings toward TDKR, rather it be nitpicky or actual flaws, are actually based on 1) them not really paying attention to the film itself and what it's telling vs. what they would've wanted, and 2) the film being something of a multiple viewing and you'll find and realize more and more things about it kinda movie?

I would say it's "what they would have wanted" for a great deal of people.

Very different reactions is fine, but there seems to be a very thin line where people point to flaws in their own minds as plot holes.

Exactly.

 

[Anita18]

I would say it's "what they would have wanted" for a great deal of people.

I agree. To be fair, most people don't react well when something is different from their expectations. The more set their expectations, the more disappointed/angry they are.

I don't have energy to be angry, so I was like, "Huh" at first but now I love TDKR for what it DOES do, especially in finishing Bruce's story. That's what it set out to do, and it wasn't like we were jipped of actual story points in the marketing. (*COUGHSUPERMANRETURNSCOUGH*) The motivations for the class warfare and the siege were just different from what we expected.

And it's actually kind of unfair to expect TDK-level social commentary in everything Nolan does post-TDK. Inception was touted as a huge film, and it had a large scope, but it was really about one man fighting his own demons. More often than not, Nolan's films are about the protagonist fighting his own demons, which is an inherently intimate and personal subject. They're not about social commentary. So TDK in that sense really was an anomaly.

 

[Fudgie]

Random question: do you guys think that people who have mixed feelings toward TDKR, rather it be nitpicky or actual flaws, are actually based on 1) them not really paying attention to the film itself and what it's telling vs. what they would've wanted, and 2) the film being something of a multiple viewing and you'll find and realize more and more things about it kinda movie?

It's mainly actual flaws. So many people come up with the same complaints so it ain't no coincidence. Rises just didn't press the right buttons as much as the last two Nolan Bat flicks did.

 

[The Eradicator]

Random question: do you guys think that people who have mixed feelings toward TDKR, rather it be nitpicky or actual flaws, are actually based on 1) them not really paying attention to the film itself and what it's telling vs. what they would've wanted, and 2) the film being something of a multiple viewing and you'll find and realize more and more things about it kinda movie?

Well, in my case at least, I was very mixed about the film when I first saw it, and that was because I imposed my own expectations on the film. I had my own idea of what the film should've been like and how it should've ended. However, since its release, I have seen the film two more times, and it has grown on me considerably. I now think that TDKR is just as good as the first two, and it concludes the trilogy in a very satisfying way.

The problem is, I went into TDK completely clean - I had only seen the trailers, and that was it. I wasn't on message boards, hunting for spoilers or speculating about the plot for months. So when I saw the film, I felt like I got hit by a ton of bricks (in a good way, of course!). With TDKR, my anticipation was through the roof and I was following the pre-release speculation and chatter religiously. So therefore, when I saw the film, my initial reaction was much different than with TDK.

Once you accept the film for what it is, you understand the story it's trying to tell. You realize that TDKR does this trilogy justice, and that is all that matters. In the end, this is Nolan's vision of Bruce Wayne's arc, not mine.

 

[Ryan]

It's mainly actual flaws. So many people come up with the same complaints so it ain't no coincidence. Rises just didn't press the right buttons as much as the last two Nolan Bat flicks did.

This. I find it odd when people say that people that didn't like tdkr must not have been paying attention or didn't get it. These are the same fans that loved BB and TDK, so suddenly for the last installment their turned their brains off? I've seen the other films, loved the other films, just didn't like this one as good as the other for many reasons. Why is disliking something less valid then liking something? I don't see anything wrong with people liking or disliking whatever they want. I love Batman Begins. Others feels its the weakest. Do I debate them over it, argue about it? No. Its their point, and they are entitled to it. I've never understood why some on the messageboards just don't accept others opinions, whatever they may be.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Well, in my case at least, I was very mixed about the film when I first saw it, and that was because I imposed my own expectations on the film. I had my own idea of what the film should've been like and how it should've ended. However, since its release, I have seen the film two more times, and it has grown on me considerably. I now think that TDKR is just as good as the first two, and it concludes the trilogy in a very satisfying way.

The problem is, I went into TDK completely clean - I had only seen the trailers, and that was it. I wasn't on message boards, hunting for spoilers or speculating about the plot for months. So when I saw the film, I felt like I got hit by a ton of bricks (in a good way, of course!). With TDKR, my anticipation was through the roof and I was following the pre-release speculation and chatter religiously. So therefore, when I saw the film, my initial reaction was much different than with TDK.

Once you accept the film for what it is, you understand the story it's trying to tell. You realize that TDKR does this trilogy justice, and that is all that matters. In the end, this is Nolan's vision of Bruce Wayne's arc, not mine.

Good post. My experiences with the films were practically the same. Watching TDK 'completely clean' as you put it was probably the best cinematic experience I have had in my life so far. So it would've taken quite a lot for TDKR to even come close to it, but it's clear that following the production obsessively and reading a pretty large number of spoilers beforehand didn't help my cause. I also had clear expectations for Bane as the villain as well. I wanted him to lead his own splinter group of LoS(ers), moving away from Ra's Al Ghul's ideals. So I was initially disappointed when Talia was eventually revealed to be in the movie and I thought it weakened him as a character. If anything, further viewings have made me think their shared backstory makes Bane more complex as a character and it also establishes a further parallel with Bruce. And this was the case with other aspects as well.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the film has some flaws (certain scenes really need more time to breathe and Talia's character could've definitely used more time as well) and I still think I rate it behind TDK and BB (though I still need to do a trilogy marathon), but the way in which it concludes Nolan's trilogy is just wonderful and very satisfying.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It's mainly actual flaws. So many people come up with the same complaints so it ain't no coincidence. Rises just didn't press the right buttons as much as the last two Nolan Bat flicks did.

It's really just a coincidence when the majority still rather enjoy TDKR, but you'd think otherwise on these forums as people make it seem like it's one rotten apple of a film.

 

[Fudgie]

This. I find it odd when people say that people that didn't like tdkr must not have been paying attention or didn't get it. These are the same fans that loved BB and TDK, so suddenly for the last installment their turned their brains off? I've seen the other films, loved the other films, just didn't like this one as good as the other for many reasons. Why is disliking something less valid then liking something? I don't see anything wrong with people liking or disliking whatever they want. I love Batman Begins. Others feels its the weakest. Do I debate them over it, argue about it? No. Its their point, and they are entitled to it. I've never understood why some on the messageboards just don't accept others opinions, whatever they may be.

Lurve this awesome post.

It's really just a coincidence when the majority still rather enjoy TDKR, but you'd think otherwise on these forums as people make it seem like it's one rotten apple of a film.

Ya can enjoy something and still think it's flawed or weaker ya know.

 

[I Am The Knight]

This. I find it odd when people say that people that didn't like tdkr must not have been paying attention or didn't get it. These are the same fans that loved BB and TDK, so suddenly for the last installment their turned their brains off?

Exactly. It's almost as if BB and TDK brainwashed them into loving TDKR, no matter what.

 

[TheBat812]

This. I find it odd when people say that people that didn't like tdkr must not have been paying attention or didn't get it. These are the same fans that loved BB and TDK, so suddenly for the last installment their turned their brains off? I've seen the other films, loved the other films, just didn't like this one as good as the other for many reasons. Why is disliking something less valid then liking something? I don't see anything wrong with people liking or disliking whatever they want. I love Batman Begins. Others feels its the weakest. Do I debate them over it, argue about it? No. Its their point, and they are entitled to it. I've never understood why some on the messageboards just don't accept others opinions, whatever they may be.

There is a difference between not enjoying the way something is executed and refusing to believe there was a reason behind a creative decision. There have been valid complaints, sure, but few of the truly legitimate film gripes go beyond "The execution was jarring or was laughable" (something some fans seem to forget you can also find in both BB and TDK). Story-wise, and thematically, this film is equally strong as the other two in the series. In my personal estimation, actually surpasses them in some very impressive ways, by not only expanding upon the journey started in 1 and 2, but also in bringing back themes that are imperative to completing Bruce's journey. Not enough people give this series credit for continually evolving their characters' viewpoints from film to film, constantly having to adjust their world-views and codes to their changing environment.

 

[Ryan]

There is a difference between not enjoying the way something is executed and refusing to believe there was a reason behind a creative decision. There have been valid complaints, sure, but few of the truly legitimate film gripes go beyond "The execution was jarring or was laughable" (something some fans seem to forget you can also find in both BB and TDK). Story-wise, and thematically, this film is equally strong as the other two in the series.

I can't speak to those critiques as they do not refect the problems I've had with TDKR. Ya, I guess at times there were some scenes that cut too fast etc, and your right there were some in Begins and TDK as well. By the same token, I don't believe just because something was excuted with great precision that I have to like it. I like things because I enjoy them and I found TDKR to be the least enjoyable of the three...what's wrong with me thinking that?

 

[TheBat812]

I can't speak to those critiques as they do not refect the problems I've had with TDKR. Ya, I guess at times there were some scenes that cut too fast etc, and your right there were some in Begins and TDK as well. By the same token, I don't believe just because something was excuted with great precision that I have to like it. I like things because I enjoy them and I found TDKR to be the least enjoyable of the three...what's wrong with me thinking that?

Nothing, that's absolutely fine, haha.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Ya can enjoy something and still think it's flawed or weaker ya know.

Reading the boards nowadays, one would never know that people do enjoy the film even by saying it's the weakest or naming its countless "flaws".

 

[Ryan]

Nothing, that's absolutely fine, haha.

^
Ha, sorry, wasn`t aiming for you or one person in particular *cough,cough*, but there has been a real mindset that we must love this movie and that if we don`t we are heretics or something. Look at how people were even threatening reviewers that were giving less than favourable critiques. Just smallmindedness to not tolerate differing opinions.

 

[Shikamaru]

Exactly. It's almost as if BB and TDK brainwashed them into loving TDKR, no matter what.

Agreed. I fully believe that if it wasn't for the fact that BB and TDK were so good and that Nolan was the director, TDKR wouldn't have received anywhere near the amount of praise it got in general.

 

[Anita18]

Agreed. I fully believe that if it wasn't for the fact that BB and TDK were so good and that Nolan was the director, TDKR wouldn't have received anywhere near the amount of praise it got in general.

I'm not sure. TDKR got pretty much the same RT rating as Inception (although a higher rating on Metacritic) and I see the two as having the same amount of "issues." Not the same issues mind you, but add them up and they'd be pretty similar. So I don't see how TDKR necessarily gets a Batman bonus, or at least a strong argument of one.

How much those issues affect you depends on what you're bringing into the film beforehand. Such is the ways of perception and art....

 

[BatLobster]

Calling people sheep is just as insulting and condescending as when people say "you don't get it"

Just fyi

 

[Anno_Domini]

That's the boards for ya though, lol.

Over-protective fanboys tell others they just don't understand, and non-fans of a CBM will call others sheep for liking said film.