The Dark Knight Rises Would it be possible for them to adapt "TDKR" while also excluding Superman?

[LuiECuomo]

http://www.newsarama.com/film/080807-dark-knight-returns.html

This article features a nice argument in favor of making "The Dark Knight Returns" the sequel to "TDK." The only real case against using the sequel is the presence of Superman (who as we all know is too unrealistic to feature in Nolan's universe). Other than that, "TDKR" is possibly the greatest Batman story ever told, and it seems a shame that one particular plot point/scene would hinder the whole thing from being adapted to the big screen.

So my question is this: is there ANY way to work around Superman's role in the story and feature some sort of "alternate ending" that retains the realism of Nolan's Bat-verse but which is equally as compelling? The Batman-Superman showdown is without a doubt one of the best scenes in "TDKR" but simply could not exist in the next film.

Any other ideas?

 

[Timstuff]

I love TDKR, but I do not want it as the third part of Nolan's trilogy.

 

[Doc Samson]

Yeah, I feel TDKR should be a stand alone picture somewhere down the road after Nolan is done. I don't see how you could do it justice without the climax of Superman & Batman going toe to toe. I also would want them to do it in a more comic book "300" or Sin City style fashion, with the actual comic suit and stylized rendition of Gotham City.

However, I think they should use some of the themes from TDKR in the next film, mainly Bruce on the run as this Outlaw Clint Eastwood type, and maybe throw in a "Sons of the Bat" type of gang (they already have the fake Batmen around, maybe he can take a few under his wing and train them) and see Bruce wage war against the cops & the criminals

You know what, the more I think about it, maybe it is the best way to go. Excluding Superman (which I still feel is a bit exclusion) making a "loosely" based film on TDKR could answer alot of questions

-Setting it in the future will allow them to recast the Joker as someone older, who could bring a different spin to the character while still keeping it faithful to the current version

-It would allow a different kind of Joker (and assuming Two-Face is somehow alive) and Harvey storyline, while still keeping IMO, Batman's most interesting characters intact to fully compete with what the TDK did this year

-We all know Bale's commitment to physically bringing his roles to life. How cool would it be to see Bale put on 50 or so extra pounds and use some prosthetics to bring the elder caped crusader to life? It would give him a whole different way to play Batman, and give the audience something we've never seen before.

 

[Nepenthes]

The better question is whether you can succesfully adapt the themes of DKR outside of the context of the Cold War

That article is junk. Why do people keep missing the fact that it's absurd to make a "future Batman" movie that occurs back in the middle of the 1980's. Hello? The article does not mention the period setting even ONCE. If you thought people were confused when BB came out wait till you show them a grey-haired Batman who somehow traveled back in time for his next movie. Mindless article, their entire argument is: it's escalation wow, it's got a different kind of Joker, it's got a three act structure!!! (are you kidding me): and it's a very influential book. Please.


that said, I think a movie where batman is old, and Gotham is in ruins from an earthquake, and he finds a girl Robin, fights mutant gangs, battles government Superman, kills the Joker...that would be an alright movie maybe.

 

[Doc Samson]

The better question is whether you can succesfully adapt the themes of DKR outside of the context of the Cold War

That article is junk. Why do people keep missing the fact that it's absurd to make a "future Batman" movie that occurs back in the middle of the 1980's. Hello? The article does not mention the period setting even ONCE. If you thought people were confused when BB came out wait till you show them a grey-haired Batman who somehow traveled back in time for his next movie. Mindless article, their entire argument is: it's escalation wow, it's got a different kind of Joker, it's got a three act structure!!! (are you kidding me): and it's a very influential book. Please.


that said, I think a movie where batman is old, and Gotham is in ruins from an earthquake, and he finds a girl Robin, fights mutant gangs, battles government Superman, kills the Joker...that would be an alright movie maybe.

Almost kills . That being said, I think "loosely" based would be pretty cool. I just want to see Bale get all flabby and out of shape for it, with the gray hair and prosthetics really, I think it would give him a chance to get some Oscar buzz because it could be a very different and nuanced portrayal. Plus the Academy loves when actors "transform" themselves for a role, hence all the Ledger Oscar talk...

 

[DACrowe]

I didn't read the article but

1) TDKR is overrated. A good story, but hardly the best Batman story ever told.
2) it's style like all of Miller's work is very surreal and fantastical. Not part of Nolan's "gritty realism" or rather versimilitude.
3) Superman is in it and Harvey Dent is alive with perfect surgery at the beginning.
and
4) Do we really follow up two very original smart films about Batman's early days with a boring adaptation of a graphic novel set at the end of his days?

Nah. I'd rather see Nolan do his own thing, I mean twice he has proven better than Miller's take, why not a third? Besides they can do TDKR another day, because the themes of TDK do not carry over into that movie (nor the ocntinuity or tone). I'd also add that I prefer the Batman Beyond continuation of it all, really.

 

[Nepenthes]

Almost kills . That being said, I think "loosely" based would be pretty cool. I just want to see Bale get all flabby and out of shape for it, with the gray hair and prosthetics really,

ha ha, you wanna have this debate? Batman intended to kill him and *****ed out at the last second, but still he wanted to kill him and he effectively did. that's what I think about all that . but anyway

you're right it would be a cool to see Bale do his older Goddamn Batman, and a great way to differentiate the film. I think Batman3 could look seriously at a 5 or 10 year timejump no matter what. And yeah a loosely based DKR would be alright, there's alot of cool stuff pick up. But I just want to see people acknowledge the damn fact the book relies on the Cold War, which is absurd for a modern Batman film, and that you have too address that context before we go talking about any "DKR movie".

 

[swob]

Yes.

 

[Nepenthes]

I just a wrote a 3 page outline of how the 1st act would play out. I've replaced Russia with Santa Prisca and Two-Face with Bane. So far we've got Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Ellen Yindel, Selina & the Catwomen, the Mutants & the Mutant Leader, with the Joker and Superman appearing only for a moment or two. Act 1 ends with a giant public showdown between two old men trying to reclaim former glory. I think Bane will be out for good, he shouldn't remain past the first act but Santa Prisca is a different story. Tim Drake has a cool new DKR origin too, if I may say so myself.

 

[TimidationGame]

This would be a monumental mistake for what they have going now on many different levels. There are much much better ways to do that story and how to lead in to it. I really don't want to sound like i'm trashing the story or thought, but these are two very different animals both with lots of potential.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

I like the idea of Gotham being hit by an earthquake, but if we are going that route I'd prefer No Man's Land.

 

[jarve]

I don't think the story works in Nolans universe, though I could see him using the general idea that batman, after taking the fall in the last one, is now more of a legend than an actual being in the public eye.

 

[StorminNorman]

I don't want to see TDKR on screen with or without Superman.

 

[Doc Samson]

ha ha, you wanna have this debate? Batman intended to kill him and *****ed out at the last second, but still he wanted to kill him and he effectively did. that's what I think about all that . but anyway

you're right it would be a cool to see Bale do his older Goddamn Batman, and a great way to differentiate the film. I think Batman3 could look seriously at a 5 or 10 year timejump no matter what. And yeah a loosely based DKR would be alright, there's alot of cool stuff pick up. But I just want to see people acknowledge the damn fact the book relies on the Cold War, which is absurd for a modern Batman film, and that you have too address that context before we go talking about any "DKR movie".

Oh he definitely wanted to, his whole thought process when he was chasing him down was to kill him, but at the moment of truth, his morals still showed up (which I found odd anyway, since he shotguns a mutant to death earlier in the story lol)

That being said, I don't want a direct interpretation from TDKR, but what I'm saying is using some of the elements. The whole cold war angle of the book relies heavily on Superman anyway, so assuming he would never show up in a Nolan movie (which he wouldn't) then I think they wouldn't need to address that side of it. Even the mutants would be too much, so we don't need that either. Im suggesting having the timeline jump from Batman's early years to maybe 10 down the road. This would allow Bale to age somewhat, and put on some weight to show the older, more grizzled Bat. Doing the time jump would also allow someone older (Daniel Day Lewis WB, even though the man looks the same age as Heath and I will continue to stand by that!) to portray the Joker and also to do it differently while still following what they developed already. It also could allow them to show just what Batman's underground, almost urban legend retreat does to Gotham over the course of a decade, with everything running amok. If somehow Harvey survived, they could use the angle where Bruce helps get him plastic surgery (he can even do this privately from the public) in hopes that Harvey can regain his sanity. They can do a whole host of things, I just think it would be different and interesting to see Bruce deal with Gotham some years down the line from TDK to see just how bad it's gotten. It doesn't have to be TDKR at all, but with Batman on the run, it will be in a similiar vein regardless. And the bottomline is, if they don't do something different and big on a huge scale, the next film would be anti-climactic in comparison....

 

[Nepenthes]

I think the shotgun is supposed to be deliberately vague. so you can't be sure. Maybe you're right about the morals kicking with Joker but for some reason I like it better to think that he killed him


I think a movie based on DKR could be a real possibility after Batman3. I wouldn't even bother thinking about how Nolan would do a "DKR movie", he won't. His scripts are too much of a amalgam of characters rather than any adapted storylines


I'm interested, what elements would people MOST like to see adapted from DKR? and what elements from Knightfall or Batman Beyond could make it into the same movie?