Comics Amazing Spider-Man #561

[iloveclones]

I didn't feel like they were trying to convince of that at all. I think her appearance was all about saying that MJ has moved on, it's time for the reader to move on also.

 

[carnageehw]

I think her appearance was all about saying that MJ has moved on, it's time for the reader to move on also.

If that was the case why did they have the "In another life"/tounching the monitor longingly reference? Hints of OMD is the opposite of moving on.

Also, if they REALLY wanted to move on, they wouldn't have told the readers they are always meant to be together, then left us with a story that's so easy to re-ret-con.

You can't tell the reader they are always meant to be together, and that thier "souls" will always know they are meant to be together, THEN hint that MJ knows about the deal and claim they are trying to move on.

 

[iloveclones]

I don't feel like they "hinted" that at all. I took it as her referencing their former relationship. As a couple. That's all. You're making too much out of it.

 

[carnageehw]

I don't feel like they "hinted" that at all. I took it as her referencing their former relationship. As a couple. That's all. You're making too much out of it.

But how does she know he's Spiderman then?

You can't say I'm making too much out of it when THE COMIC BOOK ITSELF told me there is a part of them that will always remember! We can't forget this. We all read it. A vast majority of people feel she is referencing OMD.

You can't have the comic book tell you something, then an action that a large group of your readers take as referencing that something and claim it's something else....unless it's a result of piss poor writing.

So: Either you are wrong about showing them moving on, or it's piss poor writing/art/direction, because you are showing a scene that (at the VERy least could) mean MJ remembers part of OMD right after telling readers part of them will always remember and that they were meant to be together.

Personally, I think that scene was a big "screw you" wrapped in a nice little "No, she was just talking about thier past relationship" excuse.

 

[iloveclones]

But how does she know he's Spiderman then?

Believe it or not, she didn't need to be married to him to know his secret id. In fact, she revealed that fact before they were married.

Now, I know you're going to say, "But they told us Nobody knows his secret id anymore! They lied. They lieeeed!" I think I'm smart enough to accept that they meant that everybody except MJ. Or that maybe there are a few exceptions (like the symbiote). I really don't care.

If they want to reference OMD, that's fine with me. (when you refer to "readers" that are so offended, or that they're poking fun of, the only ones that care about that stuff are the ones so up in arms over this whole thing.) They referenced Sins Past ( a near universally panned epic) over in Thunderbolts, and I got a good laugh out of it.

And I'm not saying you need to move on. Hey, decide things like that for yourself. What I am saying is that with issue #1 of BND, panel #1, they had Pete making out with another girl (sort of). With this story, they had mj with another guy. I think it's pretty clear that Marvel's intention is to show that they are not getting them back together anytime soon. And at the same time show that she could (someday) be a part of the cast again. Even her last word on panel were something to that effect.

 

[Ion Kenshin]

The idea of MJ remembering can go either way honestly. she could remember the whole deal with the devil thing or should could be referring to a previous relationship they had. i think we still need more info before a decision can be made. Secondly i dont think they said that no one remembers who he is period. i think it was more along the lines of anyone that witnessed seeing him after the unmasking forgot who he was. Its already been said that MJ knew he was spider-man from when she saw him swing out the window. It may have been confirmed by pete after they got married(honesty not sure) but regardless she knew it....

 

[maxred]

You're wrong iloveclones! You're so wrong. They are trying to convince us that Peter and MJ are better off without each other around. Because, they're trying to make Mary Jane the reason why Pete made the stupit mistakes, like the testing in the Clone Saga, the unmasking in Civil War, and finally making the deal with Mephisto, when its actually their fault! I enjoy seeing these two together, because to me they bring emotion into the comics, that Peter can interact with someone else, other than himself and his aunt, who now doesn't know about his secret other life.

 

[carnageehw]

Now, I know you're going to say, "But they told us Nobody knows his secret id anymore! They lied. They lieeeed!"

This is where I was going with it, yes.

I think I'm smart enough to accept that they meant that everybody except MJ.

Don't pretend you're "smart enough" for ignoring what the books says becasue it fits in with what you want to think. You know what? It still doesn't help your point anyway. Because if she knows Peter is Spidey, she still stands there, thouching the screen longingly, and says something (we don't hear her inflection, but logic dictates it would mask her gestures....that of longing)about thier past life. That's not moving on. If they wanted to show her not moving on, don't put that damn scene in there. Have the bed, the kissing, and the leaving town. That's moving on. And you should know it's better than what they did in this issue.

I really don't care.

Of course not.

If they want to reference OMD, that's fine with me.

That's fair. But your point was that they were showing MJ moving on. My point is referencing OMD is not moving on. I don't think that's even debatable. OMB is in the past.

They referenced Sins Past ( a near universally panned epic) over in Thunderbolts, and I got a good laugh out of it.

That's good. Except you never made the point of them moving on from Sins Past. If You (or marvel) said: You know what, that story sucked, lets pretend it never happened. Then they had that reference, you might be on to something.

And I'm not saying you need to move on.

While I don't like the break up, the one thing I DO want is moving on.

Hey, decide things like that for yourself. What I am saying is that with issue #1 of BND, panel #1, they had Pete making out with another girl (sort of).

A good example of showing people they are ready o move on. I agree.

With this story, they had mj with another guy.

This would have been a good example of moving on......had they not done the panic room scene, hwere a clear intetion is given towards not moving on, and staying in the past.

I think it's pretty clear that Marvel's intention is to show that they are not getting them back together anytime soon.

That may be Marvel intention, but they showed it piss poorly in this issue.


Look, I'm not talking about BND. I'm talking about this issue and scene.I don't know why you can't admit that one scene was cock. It made obvious references to OMD, a time when Pete and Mj were together, and made it look like MJ knew something about that time, and/or that she still loved/liked him. That IS NOT moving on. If they just removed that scene, you would be right. It would show moving on. But they didn't. And that scene (the screen touching part)wasn't even nessesary to the plot. Which is why I think it was a slap to the face. There is no reason to have it, it doesn't show to the readers that MJ or the book is moving on.

 

[Dangerous]

I didn't feel like they were trying to convince of that at all. I think her appearance was all about saying that MJ has moved on, it's time for the reader to move on also.

I did not get that impression.
She was thinking about PP in the airport.

Just read #561, here's my 2 webs-

Check out Bobby Carr's deformed left heel when Paperdoll pounces him on his bed at home.
Also what was up with MJ's bra- it had a body slimming belt built in.

So it's now clear MJ remembers being with PP. That combined with the book she was reading at the end of #560 suggests Mephisto's spell did not work properly, or rather that MJ's whisper in Mephisto's ear in #546 was a request for her to retain knowledge of their marriage.

Strange that Petey was happy at the end of the issue, considering he's just been fired and has no money to pay next months rent.
So it would appear that chick at the end of the book is Jackpot..... I'm just trying to remember what happened when Spidey tracked her down.. I'm sure she denied knowing Jackpot...

Anyway, this issue answered some questions which was cool.
The main problem I have with the book is Harry. While OMD was a cop out, hey atleast MJ remembers the past which is good.
Harry being alive is just a huge F-you to long time readers. I don't care that Mephisto has the power to resurrect the dead, it's totally pointless and lame. Harry has added nothing of value to the title thus far. It just feels like a re tread.

Overall it was an ok issue. I don't think there was anything great about it.
The art was cool, not amazing, the plot was interesting only because of the MJ stuff. The rest was pretty standard and logical. Paperdoll- while aesthetically interesting, is pretty 2D in more than one way.

There's one poster on this board (who shall remain nameless) who laps up every new issue like it's a Lee/Romita masterpiece.
Makes me chuckle every time.

 

[Themanofbat]

The main problem I have with the book is Harry. While OMD was a cop out, hey atleast MJ remembers the past which is good.
Harry being alive is just a huge F-you to long time readers. I don't care that Mephisto has the power to resurrect the dead, it's totally pointless and lame. Harry has added nothing of value to the title thus far. It just feels like a re tread.

I believe when questioned about Harry surprising ressurection from the dead, Marvel has responded with a "when you deal with the devil, there's a price to pay" type of answer...

So far, we've seen nothing much with Harry, but this writing team has some long lasting goals, and I would like to think that something sinister is affot with Harry... but in due time.

The biggest thing with me would be that if Harry and MJ would start dating again... that would make the small part in Peter's heart go "Aaaaaaaaaaargh!!!"

There's one poster on this board (who shall remain nameless) who laps up every new issue like it's a Lee/Romita masterpiece.
Makes me chuckle every time.

 

[Dangerous]

I believe when questioned about Harry surprising ressurection from the dead, Marvel has responded with a "when you deal with the devil, there's a price to pay" type of answer...

So far, we've seen nothing much with Harry, but this writing team has some long lasting goals, and I would like to think that something sinister is affot with Harry... but in due time.

The biggest thing with me would be that if Harry and MJ would start dating again... that would make the small part in Peter's heart go "Aaaaaaaaaaargh!!!"

Yeah I just resent his presence.
He was Petey's best friend, a conflicted guy who died a tragic death.
The past is the past, I think it should stay that way.

It's not you.
You like BND Spidey more than me, but you know whats up.

 

[UK_Stu]

I'm still not 100% behind brand new day yet. I need more re-assurances about what spidey history is how I remember it and what now has changed.

I bought my first spider-man comic in 1983, I have bought every issue of ASM since then to date - I've stuck with it through some pretty s**ty strorylines - but now I'm expected to believe some of these stories have changed or if they did happen they were in a completely different context?

At least if Marvel had kept their bottle and gone with the original clone storyline , history wouldn't have been wiped.

Anyway, i'm still reading at this point - and the best thing about this issue was confirmation that MJ isn't jackpot. That would have been a terrible piece of story telling.

 

[kainedamo]

I don't feel like they "hinted" that at all. I took it as her referencing their former relationship. As a couple. That's all. You're making too much out of it.

From what people are saying happened in the issue, they're not making too much out of it at all.

And consider that MJ made an extra "deal" with Mephisto. When she whispered to him she literally said "and I'll remember everything".

Give me a break.

 

[imdaly]

From what people are saying happened in the issue, they're not making too much out of it at all.

And consider that MJ made an extra "deal" with Mephisto. When she whispered to him she literally said "and I'll remember everything".

Give me a break.

I got the same vibe from it as iloveclones did. I'm pretty sure the writers wrote it the way they did in order to specifically leave it ambiguous enough to get people talking about it like this: jumping to conclusions that MJ remembers everything.

And I just double-checked my issue of OMD, and strange enough, my copy never revealed what MJ whispered in Mephisto's ear.

My thought is that she whispered something in his ear along the lines of "If Peter can't have our marriage, at least give him his best friend Harry back", which would explain why Harry has returned. And of course Mephisto would agree to the terms, knowing full well how much of a double-edged sword it would be to have Harry back in Peter's life.

 

[kainedamo]

I got the same vibe from it as iloveclones did. I'm pretty sure the writers wrote it the way they did in order to specifically leave it ambiguous enough to get people talking about it like this: jumping to conclusions that MJ remembers everything.

And I just double-checked my issue of OMD, and strange enough, my copy never revealed what MJ whispered in Mephisto's ear.

My thought is that she whispered something in his ear along the lines of "If Peter can't have our marriage, at least give him his best friend Harry back", which would explain why Harry has returned. And of course Mephisto would agree to the terms, knowing full well how much of a double-edged sword it would be to have Harry back in Peter's life.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in OMD the text was enlarged. She requested that she remember everything. It's ****ing beyond obvious that she remembers.

 

[Styleshift]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in OMD the text was enlarged. She requested that she remember everything. It's ****ing beyond obvious that she remembers.

A pic would be greatly appreciated.
And the whole "team in another life" thing could be yanking our chains like the faust book she was holding...sorry buddy. Even though we don't like it we have to consider both sides until more evidence is revealed and one option is eliminated.

 

[imdaly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in OMD the text was enlarged. She requested that she remember everything. It's ****ing beyond obvious that she remembers.

I sure can't read what those dots are!

 

[Styleshift]

I sure can't read what those dots are!

heheh thanks Triangle head.
I took this pic and enlarged the text.
It is text but under neath it are 3 black strips, and it is blurred out over all.

 

[carnageehw]

A pic would be greatly appreciated.
And the whole "team in another life" thing could be yanking our chains like the faust book she was holding...sorry buddy. Even though we don't like it we have to consider both sides until more evidence is revealed and one option is eliminated.

I'm with you man. We absolutley can't jump to comclusions. Though I'm firm on "if she doesn't remember everything it's piss poor writing/ purposley teasing fans."

I just re read the issue yesterday, and noticed MJ looking at Peters name on her phone, like she was about to call him. Yet another sign to show marvel isn't saying she's "over" anyone yet.

 

[Doc Destruction]

No, but she sure can jump in the sack with other people! WHOO! I love this new direction!