Comics Amazing Spider-Man #600 discussion thread

[Styles]

Everyone seems to forget that Mary Jane did not have an active role in the books since they got married. As well as JMS wrote them, during that time she just kinda sat there doing literally nothing.

When's the last time anyone has been THIS interested in these two?

Controversial yes...but it's working, and people are still buying.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Everyone seems to forget that Mary Jane did not have an active role in the books since they got married. As well as JMS wrote them, during that time she just kinda sat there doing literally nothing.

When's the last time anyone has been THIS interested in these two?

Controversial yes...but it's working, and people are still buying.

Yeah, so you didn't read any of JMS' run. The last time people were this interested was probably when Mackie killed her and people screamed till she was brought back.

 

[Themanofbat]

Way to knock a guy down on his first post at the Hype...

Welcome aboard Styles...

 

[moraldeficiency]

If that's knocking someone down, then the *****fication of the internets is complete. Should all first posts just be agreed with even when they're completely backwards?

He/She was claiming that everyone (that would include you and me) was forgetful or wrong about something, so maybe a first post shouldn't try to correct everyone? Or at least not me, you I'm okay with correcting. MJ was a major part of JMS' run and during that time she defeated several supervillians, had a job, was a major sounding board for Pete, etc. You know this.

Don't get snide, if this fella was knocking Spider-Man for being a liferaping devil dealer you would have knocked him down with a lot worse and you know it in your black evil little heart.

 

[The Joker]

Someone posted this on the CBR forum about why he thinks it was a problem for Peter to be married to MJ:

Because it was boring. Everything interesting that MJ had going for her was written out so that she'd be a "better match" for Peter, depriving the character of all life. It was almost a guarantee that every major storyline would have MJ sitting by the window looking sad waiting for and worried about Peter and they'd all end with Peter coming home and them being happy. MJ became a constant presence in the book that didn't do anything. Taking up space that could have been better used for characters that actually did provide plot hooks.

It deprived Peter of a lot of various interactions with his supporting cast. It limited the ways that new female characters could be written in. It also got rid of some of the major appeal of Spidey. He's not exactly a character that works at his best with a happy homelife and a loving wife in a strong commited relationship.

Also it did a horrible diservice to MJ's character. Now Spidey is somebody that I can see easily settling down and starting a family one day far off into the future, but MJ? What precisly about her character has ever said that she'd be a great wife and mother? She was the party girl, until it was retconned that she was just misunderstood. Awww....

While I hate how they ended the marriage, I have to say I agree with this opinion.

 

[moraldeficiency]

While I disagree quite a bit, though any story with the wife of a cop/superhero/firefighter is gonna have those, "is he coming home?" moments there was quite a lot done with the character. Peter David had her doing quite a bit as well. Personally I think MJ offered an opportunity missed by most writers in terms of supporting cast. While Pete's civillian world revolved around science and journalism; MJ could have offered some completely different characters through her modelling and acting stuff. There was a golden opportunity to put new worlds into the fold, but it was rarely touched on (I remember when Pete and MJ were moving and pete ran out of friends so MJ called some of hers, there was a gold mine there never touched). The other thing I liked about MJ was she was a good counter point to Peter, they were nothing alike, and I personally perfer those matches. I'll also say that while I agree Pete's life shouldn't be great, throw the guy a bone some time just so it doesn't seem like the good guy is always losing at everything. MJ being home was kinda the one good thing Pete had no matter what. His life sucked but there was that silver lining that being an amazing self sacrificing person would at least get you something, that someone special (who's not your mother) would recognize that in you.

I'd say that poster over simplifies people to an extraordinary extent. No one's just a party girl. Is pete just a science nerd? Could it be that most people actually have layers and facets to their personalities that once you get to know might have more depth than you notice on the surface? She's a party girl cause she had a rough childhood and it was a way to keeping people at a distance, getting the attention she craved, and helping her forget. Is harry an addict cause he just loves drugs or are there factors that make him an addict?

But regardless, I have no problem with ending the marriage, but the way it was ended could not have possibly been worse. Kill her, have something else happen, but don't use ****ing devil magic and write a Peter Parker so out of character Johnny Blaze seems brilliant in comparison.

 

[Galactus]

MJ was boring most of the time even before the marriage. Just like Gwen was boring. Even Stan Lee himself was a crappy writer when it comes to writing interesting women. I don't see why MJ can't be an interesting character and having a life on her own while being married. There are a lot of women out there in the real world who are having interesting lives, even if they are married to men who you can say have dangerous jobs (like being a cop, for example).

And this obsession with MJ being a "party girl" I don't understand. So what if she was in the old Stan Lee-stories? She was a teenager then. A lot of "party girls" groves up to be more serious women. To continue to write her as a party girl brings nothing to developing the character, and does as just as much diservice to her character as what they did with her under the marriage.

If the writers would stop thinking of characters as pure plot-devices, started to treat them like real people I might give it another chance. But I don't think that ever will happen, not in a comic-book like Spider-Man. They have always been written in a certain way and probably will be as long as they exist. At the end of the day I suppose you have to be a kid (or still have an "inner child" at least) to be able to enjoy the silliness of a comic-book.

 

[Meehaul]

MJ and the Black Cat wander back into ASM to fight for Pete's affections. Now the Black Cat, now she would have made an awesome wife. Meow. Check the spidey brain trust chatting about the future: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21667

 

[Styles]

Yeah, so you didn't read any of JMS' run. The last time people were this interested was probably when Mackie killed her and people screamed till she was brought back.

XD yea I didn't waste my money on JMS. when you turn a regular smart guy into a magic totem god, i think you effed up quite a bit. haha
I liked it when he started, and that he QUESTIONED the idea of it, but once he started forcing stuff (see sins past) i had to quit.

I think too many people have gotten attached to the marriage over the 20 years that it was written. Yes there are like 3 good marriage stories out there (heh), but I think the marriage brings some symbolic sense of closure to some fans. This should be an ONGOING story. Just look at Brand new day as another chapter in Peter's life. some days he loses, some days he wins.

Way to knock a guy down on his first post at the Hype...

Welcome aboard Styles...

LOL thanks, Themanofbat, glad to be here!
Here I go stating my opinion....I kinda half expected that be the first response since it was a pro bnd statement in an issue about the marriage not happening. ha!

I love this stuff, while I definitely hate how it was done, I love how much fun Spidey is again. There are so many subplots going on, (american son, dark avengers, harry and menace, mary jane, one more day)

All the while when JMS was writing it with an arc every 3 months, totally ignoring most of peter's supporting cast. (need i say magic totem spider?)

 

[Styles]

MJ and the Black Cat wander back into ASM to fight for Pete's affections. Now the Black Cat, now she would have made an awesome wife. Meow. Check the spidey brain trust chatting about the future: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21667

BC is arguably a more fitting girlfriend than MJ is.
I love how she was written until she became nuts. That stuff was horrible.

(Oh nooooo Spider-man can't be a regular looking guy!! ahhhhh!!!) XD

Fun Fact: Does anyone else know that they were planning on Peter knocking up Black cat? Except editorial didn't want a character having a child without being happily married.

 

[The Joker]

The Amazing Spider-Man panel at Wizard World Philly had Dan Slott, Joe Kelly, and Fred Van Lente. Slott talked about ASM #600:

“It’s the 600th issue of Spider-Man!”

Warming to his subject, Slott went on to describe the book as, “The super-awesome [editor] Steve Wacker comic! It is 104 Pages!” Since 104 pages couldn’t contain it there is an additional 5-page story that will be made available on the Internet. Included will be stories by Stan Lee, Brian Michael Bendis, Matt Fraction and Joe Kelly, as well as a 61-page story by Dan Slott, drawn by John Romita Jr. Cover variants will include work from Alex Ross, John Romita Jr. Joe Quesada and John Romita Sr.

The main villain will be Doc Ock as you’ve never seen him before. Said Slott, “It’s gonna be huge! It’s just a huge thing of love!” There will be an important Spider-Man soap opera event, and it will also be a great place for new readers to jump on.

Questions about Norman Osborn were deferred until the following day’s Dark Reign panel. Some of the upcoming events will fall out from “American Son.” The reason Osborn didn’t include Doc Ock in his current plans will be revealed in issue #600. Basically, Osborn probably couldn’t get him. “I want to move [Doc Ock] up to a Doctor Doom level.” said Slott. “He’s going to get AMPed!”

Link: http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21678

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Awesome, awesome, and more awesome! Is it July yet?

 

[The Joker]

Well Wizard Magazine is doing a big article on ASM #600 this week. I'll post any pics or info worth posting on thursday.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Awesome! Can't wait to read it.

 

[Matt Murdock]

Anyone posted the ad for ASM 600 that was in 597?

 

[The Joker]

Anyone posted the ad for ASM 600 that was in 597?

Yeah, I did here: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=17010568&postcount=83

 

[Matt Murdock]

Ah. Nice one.

I feel like they want everyone to think it's MJ and Peter, but it's bound to be Jameson and May.

 

[Styleshift]

Everyone seems to forget that Mary Jane did not have an active role in the books since they got married. As well as JMS wrote them, during that time she just kinda sat there doing literally nothing.

When's the last time anyone has been THIS interested in these two?

Controversial yes...but it's working, and people are still buying.

Styleshift. That's cute.
Well....at least you won't have to check your posts for expletives before you submit them. (Style*****)
EDIT: woooow auto-censoring censorship!!! why didn't they have that when I was on here before???

Anyhoo,
Now that I've caught up on Spidey. I'll entertain you folks with my current thoughts.

Good stuff. They can tell good stories in this "Brand New Day" world.
(Don't get excited...there's a catch)

Before I left for my AIT training I converted my 40 years of ASM to CBR format and transferred it to my psp, so I wouldn't be bored.

I Read most of the 80s stuff that I missed. Classic Spider-man. Perfect stride of stories, (except for that whodunit story with the computer)

Anyways, my point is...I really understand why they are so fond of this period and want to go back to it. I really do now more than ever.

However, at this point they also make it clear that these stories can be told with a married Spider-man. He's not dating anyone nor has he been trying to get a date. The chick that likes him can still like him as a married man. That's real life. He can still be attracted to her also, It's only wrong if he gives in to temptation. Mj and peter can share an apt. and these stories would have all been the same. (with the exception of Vin, the character nobody likes.)

Marvel's real problem is that they find a hard time writing interesting women that don't have super powers or a costume. Think of how many throw away female characters they've had?

There is so much lost potential that the marriage had.
They should not have "infinite crisis" reset the Spidey mythos.
It's lost a HUGE amount of appeal to me. As a younger fan what drew me to Spider-man was the fact that he was the only Superhero that literally "grew up". Now that they've opened up just about every can with this character, (unmasking, new powers, marriage, etc.) That makes it even harder to keep me entertained. without a good cliffhanger.

It's lazy writing to erase so many things, and with a book like this one that shows me there will no longer be any true pay off.
If they don't like something they'll just reboot it. Since fans are still buying they are teaching them it's ok.

I wouldn't be buying this book if you guys weren't so cool to chat with. t:

Before I wrap this up,
I wiil admit I'm interested in JJJ Sr.
He has much potential and I honestly don't feel they will drop the ball this time.

He seems way too good to be true. I thought it was out of character at first, but c'mon the lady wanted to be with Doc Ock at one point.

American started out well, (except for the odd broke back park scene with Harry and Peter)
but now its losing its pace again like New ways to die did. Hopefully they keep things in motion unlike giving us a bunch of filler like issues afterwards like NWTD did.

 

[stillanerd]

Here's a four page preview of ASM #600. Just scroll to the bottom to images and blow the up:

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8565.SNEAK_PEEK~colon~_Amazing_Spider-Man_%23600

 

[kguillou]

Originally posted by Moraldeficiency

While I disagree quite a bit, though any story with the wife of a cop/superhero/firefighter is gonna have those, "is he coming home?" moments there was quite a lot done with the character. Peter David had her doing quite a bit as well. Personally I think MJ offered an opportunity missed by most writers in terms of supporting cast. While Pete's civillian world revolved around science and journalism; MJ could have offered some completely different characters through her modelling and acting stuff. There was a golden opportunity to put new worlds into the fold, but it was rarely touched on (I remember when Pete and MJ were moving and pete ran out of friends so MJ called some of hers, there was a gold mine there never touched). The other thing I liked about MJ was she was a good counter point to Peter, they were nothing alike, and I personally perfer those matches. I'll also say that while I agree Pete's life shouldn't be great, throw the guy a bone some time just so it doesn't seem like the good guy is always losing at everything. MJ being home was kinda the one good thing Pete had no matter what. His life sucked but there was that silver lining that being an amazing self sacrificing person would at least get you something, that someone special (who's not your mother) would recognize that in you.

I completely agree man. These days it feels like Peter is just losing at everything. Its more depressing than relatable imo. Marvel feels like the only way to make a character interesting is to beat them and beat them while their down until they give in. A little happiness once in a while does wonders for characters. Just look at the X-men, when was the last time they were even remotely happy?

Marvel keeps arguing that MJ limited Peter's interaction with the rest of his supporting cast, i think thats bull. Pete's rich supporting cast has always been there, its just that certain writers chose not to use them. JJJ, Robbie, Ben urich, Betty Brant, Flash, Liz, pretty much everyone except Harry was around to use. Heck there have ben alot of interesting new characters introduced in recent years that have simply disappeared. Whatever happened to Jill Stacy? What happened to Robbie's son, the one who roomed with Peter duing the Mackie years? What about all of Peter's students? There were some serious potential there when Peter was teaching to introduce plenty of new characters. I don't see how MJ limited Peter's interaction with all these characters.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Here's a four page preview of ASM #600. Just scroll to the bottom to images and blow the up:

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8565.SNEAK_PEEK~colon~_Amazing_Spider-Man_#600

Who, awesome!

 

[The Joker]

Here's a four page preview of ASM #600. Just scroll to the bottom to images and blow the up:

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8565.SNEAK_PEEK~colon~_Amazing_Spider-Man_%23600

WHOA!!!!! So many surprises there. Where to start?

Spoiler

1. Otto seems totally insane!!! I love the idea that this is a result of head trauma due to the numerous blows he's recieved over the years from superhuman foes.

2. Doc Ock's voice looks like it's robotic or something. What is that about?

3. I count six tentacles on that last panel, just like on the Alex Ross cover.

4. I know they ain't going to kill off Ock again, so I wonder how he's going to cure this?

5. I cannot wait to see the chaos he wreaks on New York in this frame of mind. It's gonna' rock!!!!

 

[Styleshift]

I completely agree man. These days it feels like Peter is just losing at everything. Its more depressing than relatable imo. Marvel feels like the only way to make a character interesting is to beat them and beat them while their down until they give in. A little happiness once in a while does wonders for characters. Just look at the X-men, when was the last time they were even remotely happy?

Marvel keeps arguing that MJ limited Peter's interaction with the rest of his supporting cast, i think thats bull. Pete's rich supporting cast has always been there, its just that certain writers chose not to use them. JJJ, Robbie, Ben urich, Betty Brant, Flash, Liz, pretty much everyone except Harry was around to use. Heck there have ben alot of interesting new characters introduced in recent years that have simply disappeared. Whatever happened to Jill Stacy? What happened to Robbie's son, the one who roomed with Peter duing the Mackie years? What about all of Peter's students? There were some serious potential there when Peter was teaching to introduce plenty of new characters. I don't see how MJ limited Peter's interaction with all these characters.

I totally agree with THAT statement. I could relate to the good guy using EVERYTHING. but at least throw Peter a bone every once and a while, They think because they give him a sense of humor that it doesn't get depressing.
It's like I said bro, Marvel can't write interesting Women (that don't have powers).

• Jessica drew? lost powers went away
• Jean DeWolfe? killed off
• Gwen Stacy? killed off
• Betty Brant? Dissapears quite often
• Deborah Whitman? Phased out loooong ago. and the list continues.
• Betty Ross? Killed off
• Karen page? killed off

There are even some superhero types that suddenly dissapear once in a while until they can think of something new to do. Of course you can say this about some male characters too. But they are in the far more minority than the female characters. They don't resort to killing those characters off. Ned leeds and

Spoiler

Foggy

are the only two i can think of off the top of my head.

and Are Peter and Mj getting married in 600? Heck no. Sales aren't low enough. They just want to raise sales. It's most likely 2 other characters getting married and a flash back of peter and Mj remembering there (almost marriage )

 

[iloveclones]

^ These are kind of ridiculous arguments.

First off, we are talking about superhero comic books. If there's a female character, odds are, they are going to have powers. And if you stick around the powered set long enough, someone is bound to notice that you're kind of useless, and a target, and find a way to get you some powers.(It's covenient that they do that, because now it makes it for the writer easier to put them in the middle of the action)

Secondly, all of the characters that you list were in the comics for a good long time. While they were around, I didn't hear anyone complaining about them not being interesting. And, frankly, they are supporting characters. The title was never intended to be the Amazing Spider-Man and Jean DeWolff. If they outlive their usefulness (or interestingness), so be it. Move on. Betty Brant becomes boring, there's a Norah right around the corner.

Thirdly, this isn't a male/female thing. It just happens that superhero comics are dominated by male leads (being power fantasies for teens and all). When's the last time Zapper was a constant in a She-Hulk comic? Hear much of Roman lately (from Dazzler's awsome comic)?

 

[Styleshift]

^ These are kind of ridiculous arguments.

First off, we are talking about superhero comic books. If there's a female character, odds are, they are going to have powers. And if you stick around the powered set long enough, someone is bound to notice that you're kind of useless, and a target, and find a way to get you some powers.(It's covenient that they do that, because now it makes it for the writer easier to put them in the middle of the action)

Secondly, all of the characters that you list were in the comics for a good long time. While they were around, I didn't hear anyone complaining about them not being interesting. And, frankly, they are supporting characters. The title was never intended to be the Amazing Spider-Man and Jean DeWolff. If they outlive their usefulness (or interestingness), so be it. Move on. Betty Brant becomes boring, there's a Norah right around the corner.

Thirdly, this isn't a male/female thing. It just happens that superhero comics are dominated by male leads (being power fantasies for teens and all). When's the last time Zapper was a constant in a She-Hulk comic? Hear much of Roman lately (from Dazzler's awsome comic)?

That's ludicrous clones.
First off, I know we are talking about superhero comics, but look at how much they have evolved? They are cinematic now-a-days. t:

You don't have to have super powers to be interesting. People change and grow. They don't stick to the same beat no matter how much they might like to or think so. Your a great guy clones and I am very sure you aren't the same man 3 years ago that you are today. You've adapted to your life and I'm sure you've learned lessons you use today am I right? What difference have you made in the lives of those surrounding you? How did you earn the right to always be there?? That's the point I was making earlier, they always just disappear and reappear when ever "needed".

sure those characters were around for a nice time. Sure the stories were pretty good, But the end result was the same.

Instead of learning to adapt these characters they just throw them away until they are ready to reuse them for situations. That's why the marriage didn't work. They couldn't throw Mj away when they wanted.

For example Betty Brant has evolved as a character, from a secretary to a reporter. She works with Peter again.
Which is GREAT!!!! She has much potential.
Now they've suddenly dropped her in favor of the BND cast. They've done this many many many times before. My opinion "thus far" is pretty accurate to assume they aren't able to write strong female characters well. Damsels in distress are so overplayed. If thats all the characters are there for why use them in the first place??

and thanks for furthering my point on accident (I knew someone would do it)

Even sometimes WITH powers, females are hard to write for marvel. Isn't that my whole point in the first place? hehe t: