The Boys Amazon's The Boys General Discussion Thread

[MadVillainy]

I liked this season more than season 1. It had a lot of what i liked from season 1, but not at many of my gripes.

I binged the first 7 eps similar to how I binged the first season and I didn't feel the pacing was as bad this season.
The humor was there but it wasn't as immature, most of the time, as season1.

Anthony Starr still gives a great performance as Homelander. The other performances were good too. Special shoutout to Chace Crawford as The Deep. Yeah he's a huge POS but I found myself laughing the hardest whenever he was on the screen. Like when he grabbed his own head when he was watching the footage of the Congress carnage.

The action was a lot better along with the SFX.

And for 99%, I thought the finale stuck the landing. Bonus here is a translation for what a certain character said as their final words

Spoiler

"It was so beautiful. How the three of us sat there, in the shade of an apple tree. Do you remember the day Frederick? Chloe's arms out of the car window. We found the perfect spot by the river, in the shade of an apple tree. It was the first time Chloe ate fresh apples.... was so happy. It was wonderful. I wanted it to never end."

For my gripes and I never read the comics but I know this isn't following the comics 1 for 1 so no need for "Well in the comics...":
-They're dealing with too many characters and storylines. For the most part they balanced it, but they need to cutback on who needs a full storyline for a season. Some characters are just supporting characters and that's fine. If they don't get to a character having their own story in one season tackle it in another. At the same time I felt like everyone got their own story, I think MM got the shaft and to a lesser extent A Train. I thought after last season A Train would be way more prominent and a threat.

-The analogies/parallels to modern times was way too on the nose. I'm not against analogies in general. I actually do enjoy them but in this it was kinda just too much. "Oh this person is supposed to be like AoC" "Oh this is supposed to be like Scientology" "Oh this is making fun of the girl power moment in Endgame" (I actually liked that one a lot), "Oh this thing about white supremacy is like what's going on in politics now" It just was too much to me and I don't think they said anything profound or even interesting with those analogies.

-Speaking of white supremacy, after The Boys and Watchmen...I'm cool on having white supremacists/Nazis in SH TV and film.

-The juvenile humor is still there a bit and it just doesn't appeal to me. Like the dude who's d**** was a giant tentacle. Like if I was 12 I'd find that funny, but stuff like that didn't make me laugh.

-I felt like they kinda abandoned the idea of the The Boys being wanted men as the season went on. Sure, they're not really distinct look group of people. But it kinda just felt after a while they were walking around in daylight without worrying about it. And they looked fine, Starlight made the comment in ep 1 that Huey looked like "****" but he looked fine. MM always had a fresh line up, glistening chain, and a fresh shirt...the physical appearance in nitpicking but the actual thing of them running around outside was a bit much.

-I kinda wish Homelander wasn't made to be a rapist. I felt in season 1 they left it a bit ambiguous whether it was consensual or rape between him and Rebecca. If you go back and watch that final scene in season 1 she doesn't looked scared as much as a bit surprised. As crappy of a person he is, adding the rapist angle just seems like going overboard. Kinda like in Rambo where they had that warlord who was clearly already evil, they turned him into a rapist just to further drive the point home of how evil he is. It's like, we get it. It just seems unnecessary

-I liked the finale a lot, but I don't think it left me wanting more like the end of season 1 did. As someone mentioned before, it's actually a pretty good series finale. There is one major loose end to tie up but even that could be played as an ambiguous, "The End...or is it?!" type ending.

-On a much lesser note, I agree with @Flash525: that final shot of Homelander was just outta place. They had a great final shot opportunity with the close up of his dead eyes. Why add that? I read that it was meant for season 1, when the tone was a bit more juvenile, and it was supposed to be on the top of the Chrysler building but Amazon nixed it for being "too much." But don't know why it was included here

But overall I really enjoyed it. I would've been fine if they ended it here, but obviously we're getting a season 3 and more.

 

[Broseph44]

What an amazing finale, wow just excellent stuff. This show is too damn good. Toni Starr needs an award. His performance as Homelander especially in episodes like this are just incredible.

Spoiler

Did not expect that twist at the end with Nueman being the one exploding everyone’s heads, wow totally unexpected great twist.

The girls kicking Stormfront’s ass was awesome and Stormfront’s death was done so well. As was Becca’s death and Maeve confronting Homelander. Great scene. Love all the little nice emotional moments as well. This whole just runs on all cylinders.

 

[Zarex]

I hadn't thought about it quite like that, but you make a fair point; feeling trapped, pushed into a corner and unable to come when needed.

In addition to losing his son, Homelander is in a bit of a tough spot within the Seven. Stormfront is crispy, Starlight and Maeve are working against him, and I'm not sure A-Train will be back in the fold after Homelander got him canned. Black Noir is out of commission, and seems to have more loyalty to Stan Edgar than the leader of the Seven. I could see his goal next season be bringing The Deep back, wanting at least one ally on the team.

Speaking of the Deep.....I'm wondering if he will be elevated to the leader of The Collective in a Tom Cruise-ian fashion? He was on the outs with Alastair, but nobody knows that, and the Church is going to need a high profile figure to carry on with its mission.

 

[Zarex]

-I kinda wish Homelander wasn't made to be a rapist. I felt in season 1 they left it a bit ambiguous whether it was consensual or rape between him and Rebecca. If you go back and watch that final scene in season 1 she doesn't looked scared as much as a bit surprised. As crappy of a person he is, adding the rapist angle just seems like going overboard. Kinda like in Rambo where they had that warlord who was clearly already evil, they turned him into a rapist just to further drive the point home of how evil he is. It's like, we get it. It just seems unnecessary.

I was hoping their interaction was an an affair gone wrong for that reason. I don't know if we are going to learn more about it, but it could be that she went along with him out of fear and our man child Homelander was incapable of picking up her signals. But with Becca gone it is probably best to drop it.

 

[Flash525]

Why are so many people under the impression that Stormfront is dead? She isn't. She'll regenerate, it'll just be a slower process than I expect she's used too, which will put her out of action for a season or two.

Speaking of the Deep.....I'm wondering if he will be elevated to the leader of The Collective in a Tom Cruise-ian fashion? He was on the outs with Alastair, but nobody knows that, and the Church is going to need a high profile figure to carry on with its mission.

I'm not so sure of that. He won't be returning to the seven anytime soon, if that I'm sure, but he's easily led. He may very likely be the new collective face, but he won't be leading it. He's a puppet really - easily manipulated, and quite naive.

 

[elgaz]

Also, Homelander at the end. It would seem the scene was initially intended for Season one, but they threw it in here instead. Does anyone else feel it's a little ... out of place?

On first watch, yeah. My immediate reaction was .............. wow, that's random. Just took me completely out of whatever comfy mental zone I was in as the episode approached its end and seemingly tied up everything on a very positive note for the Boys.

On second watch, I think it's a stroke of genius (no pun intended!).

Homelander is a control freak, that much we know. He rules with an iron fist most of the time. He also has severe issues with isolation and abandonment and parenting and much more, all a result of his being brought up in a lab by doctors. Despite being physically invulnerable, he is - though he would never admit it - very vulnerable mentally, and has a constant need for adoration and adulation to fill that empty chasm inside him where parental love normally sits. He almost convinced himself that he "doesn't need anyone" in episode 4 when he killed Doppelganger, but the fact remains that his entire self-worth is wrapped up in how he is perceived, not in the ramification of his actions.

When Maeve confronts him at the end of the finale and puts him in a position where he has to choose between his public image and his son, he shows his true colous by selfishly choosing to preserve his image instead. Maeve has him over a barrel and this loss of control (along with losing his son & Stormfront) is not something his ego can accept easily.

Thus, standing high above the city and spreading his seed over it over it is a symbolic gesture of him re-asserting his male-ego-driven-dominance over the inferior humans that populate the city far below him. He continually mouths off "I can do whatever I want" whilst he does this, almost as if he has to convince himself that he still has that power. The fact is, we've already seen that he actually can't do whatever he wants as he is too obsessed with his image to endanger it.

 

[elgaz]

-I kinda wish Homelander wasn't made to be a rapist. I felt in season 1 they left it a bit ambiguous whether it was consensual or rape between him and Rebecca. If you go back and watch that final scene in season 1 she doesn't looked scared as much as a bit surprised. As crappy of a person he is, adding the rapist angle just seems like going overboard. Kinda like in Rambo where they had that warlord who was clearly already evil, they turned him into a rapist just to further drive the point home of how evil he is. It's like, we get it. It just seems unnecessary

From the American Pyschological Association profile of a rapist :

"an overly assaultive, hypersexual man from the criminal subculture who can accept a wide range of sexual gratifications and who shows a significant level of emotional disturbance. These rapists rape out of a habitual impulsive style of narcissistic gratification"

Add in his lack of mother figure, his ego, the fact that pretty much no-one on the planet can physically stop him, and all his other issues ........... hell, I'd be surprised if Homelander wasn't a rapist.

 

[MadVillainy]

From the American Pyschological Association profile of a rapist :

"an overly assaultive, hypersexual man from the criminal subculture who can accept a wide range of sexual gratifications and who shows a significant level of emotional disturbance. These rapists rape out of a habitual impulsive style of narcissistic gratification"

Add in his lack of mother figure, his ego, the fact that pretty much no-one on the planet can physically stop him, and all his other issues ........... hell, I'd be surprised if Homelander wasn't a rapist.

That's not what I'm saying/said at all. I don't know why quote this to me. Read what I said again.
I didn't say "I don't buy that Homelander would be a rapist" I said that I don't see why do it as I found it to be overkill and also also I preferred s1 it was way more ambiguous

 

[elgaz]

That's not what I'm saying/said at all. I don't know why quote this to me. Read what I said again. I didn't say "I don't buy that Homelander would be a rapist" I said that I don't see why do it as I found it to be overkill and also also I preferred s1 it was way more ambiguous

I did read what you wrote.

My point was that in my opinion, it's actually fairly easy to buy Homelander as a rapist because he already checks off most of the criteria associated with a rapist's mentality as stated in the APA profile:

Narcissist? Yes
Assaultive? Yes
Hypersexual? Yes
Criminal? Yes
Emotionally disturbed? Yes
Impulsive? Yes
Invested in his own gratification? Yes

By making him a rapist, the show maintains tension between him, Becca and Butcher.

If he hadn't been a rapist, that means Becca slept with him willingly. That implies - at the very, very least - attraction to him, if not more. Thus we'd end up with a situation where she may well be open to her, Homelander and Ryan becoming a family. And a situation where Butcher's entire motivational arc for finding his wife becomes redundant because she cheated on him. He wouldn't go to the lengths he did if that was the case.

I think they went down the right road.

 

[MadVillainy]

I did read what you wrote.

My point was that in my opinion, it's actually fairly easy to buy Homelander as a rapist because he already checks off most of the criteria associated with a rapist's mentality as stated in the APA profile:

Narcissist? Yes
Assaultive? Yes
Hypersexual? Yes
Criminal? Yes
Emotionally disturbed? Yes
Impulsive? Yes
Invested in his own gratification? Yes

By making him a rapist, the show maintains tension between him, Becca and Butcher.

If he hadn't been a rapist, that means Becca slept with him willingly. That implies - at the very, very least - attraction to him, if not more. Thus we'd end up with a situation where she may well be open to her, Homelander and Ryan becoming a family. And a situation where Butcher's entire motivational arc for finding his wife becomes redundant because she cheated on him. He wouldn't go to the lengths he did if that was the case.

I think they went down the right road.

What you're saying in your first bit has little to do with what I'm saying. You keep bringing up "buying" him as a rapist and quoting the APA's profile. I'm not doubting or disputing if Homelander is a believable rapist. I never said or implied I did and that's clear in my initial post. So, again, there's no reason to bring that up in anything said to me, quoted to me, etc.

My point that it just seems extra and added on unnecessarily. He's already evil enough, adding that seems like overkill. If you wanna dispute that? Cool. But that has nothing to do whether he his personality is inline with a rapists. And I never said or implied it did.

Now to your final point/paragraph: I'm not saying and never said that they should've taken away the fact that Butcher thinks that Homelander raped and killed his wife. He could/could've gone all through season 1 thinking that and then in season 2, and if you rewatch the season 1 finale they seemed to be leaning this way, it's revealed that it was a consensual affair. That doesn't take away Butcher's motivational arc for all of season 1. And then season 2, there's still tension between him, Becca and Homelander.
-Butcher/Becca because she cheated on him but he still loves her.
-Butcher/Homelander because, consensual or not, he slept with Butcher's wife and Butcher still knows that Homelander is a sadistic sociopath.
-Butcher and himself because realizes he's been fighting on a misconception for so long, where does that leave himself?

And you could still have Becca/Homelander tension too. She had an affair, is ashamed, gets pregnant has Voz hide her away because a) they think that the birth will kill her and they don't want it leaked out that Homelander's "seed" can kill someone b) that "squeaky clean" (to the public's eye) Homelander is out banging randos. But she ends up giving birth and she's been hiding Homelander's son from him for years and now he's mad and she knows he's all powerful. She'd still be terrified of him. The same fear tension is still there.
And I really don't get the point of

that means Becca slept with him willingly. That implies - at the very, very least - attraction to him, if not more. Thus we'd end up with a situation where she may well be open to her, Homelander and Ryan becoming a family.

Just because Becca could've had a consensual affair with him doesn't mean that she would want a family with him. People are married and, unfortunately, have one-off affairs. That doesn't mean they're open to start a family with the person. Again it could've been a one-time slip up. Just because your attracted and sleep with someone doesn't mean you want to have a family with them.
Not making him a rapist doesn't take away anything really. Homelander would still be a sadistic POS, Butcher would still love his wife and have reason to hate Homelander. Becca would still have her son, be in hiding, and be fearful of Homelander.

 

[Zarex]

If he hadn't been a rapist, that means Becca slept with him willingly. That implies - at the very, very least - attraction to him, if not more. Thus we'd end up with a situation where she may well be open to her, Homelander and Ryan becoming a family. And a situation where Butcher's entire motivational arc for finding his wife becomes redundant because she cheated on him. He wouldn't go to the lengths he did if that was the case.

There are lots of reasons why Becca may have wanted to have sex with a very handsome and charismatic fellow who happens to be the most powerful person on the planet. Especially, as was shown, things weren't nearly so rosy at home as Butcher at first led us to believe. And at the same time have zero interest in co-parenting with a godlike figure with laser eyes, since it was clear (as they showed in the last episode) that she was still very much in love with her husband. And to suggest that Butcher would have immediately fallen out of love with Becca and given up on saving her because she slept with Homelander is both silly and inconsistent with reality.

The idea of Becca willingly making a bad decision, as opposed to having a pregnancy forced upon her, makes the situation between her and Butcher, Butcher and Homelander and Becca and Homelander more interesting than if Ryan was the result of a rape. Becca's dead, and the issue of exactly what happened likely died with her, but I would have preferred that what happened between her and Homelander was an affair gone very, very wrong.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I do feel that everything that transpired in this episode could've taken place in 2 episodes. The Stormfront storyline alone could've been an episode in itself.

 

[MadVillainy]

I do feel that everything that transpired in this episode could've taken place in 2 episodes. The Stormfront storyline alone could've been an episode in itself.

Really I thought it was handled well. I think 2 eps would've ruined the pacing

 

[Prison Mike]

I think the audience wouldn’t be as sympathetic toward the Becca character if it was revealed it was a consensual affair rather than rape. If it was an affair, it wouldn’t change Homelander’s character because he’s still a POS but it would tarnish how people see Becca. I think the writers made the right call with the storyline.

 

[MadVillainy]

Maybe a little but just cuz someone had an affair doesn't mean people wouldn't feel sorry for her while she's being intimidated by Homelander in their scenes or completely secluded from normal civilization. There are plenty of men and women characters who cheat and are still liked and sympathetic to the audience

 

[Drizzle]

I might be in the minority preferring season one over two, but this finale was much better than season one's finale. Overall I enjoyed season 2. I just hope that for season 3 they go back to dropping all the episodes at once. The Boys is better suited for binging.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'd be fine with either release strategy. I agree that this show is better for binging. Which is why I waiting until all the episodes, minus the finale, were aired and then binged them all in time for the finale.

Both release strategies allow for binging or week by week viewing. It's up to the consumer

 

[Prison Mike]

As a viewer, I definitely prefer the binge method but I also understand from the studio perspective that they would want to stretch it out as much as possible so people will talk about it for months. I do like how the episodes were an hour long instead of 40 or 45 minutes...especially for a short season.

 

[Filmfan93]

Amazing episode and season finale. Homelander continues to be the highlight of the show for me.

Also, the fight scene in this episode reminded me of what I wish the action in JL was. These guys should handle a DC film, because I can't imagine what a phenomenal Superman film can be made with the creators of The Boys at the helm.

 

[Pennywise]

The Boys: Love Sausage vs. Mother's Milk Round 2 on the Table for Season 3

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

..


I had a couple of queries about the finale :

Spoiler

Stormfront appears to be bulletproof, so how was Becca Butcher able to stab her in the eye

Although the molecular structure of Stormfront's skin is incredibly dense, there's a limit to the amount of damage it's capable of sustaining. This is demonstrated most clearly when

Spoiler

Ryan is able to mutilate her by applying a higher level of heat vision than what his father used on her in a previous episode.

With those limitations in mind, coupled with what we already know about UV light and optical sensitivity, I think it's reasonable to assume that

Spoiler

Stormie's eyes

lack the same resistance properties as her skin. In short, they're somewhat more vulnerable.

 

[Lencho01]

I kinda take issue with how Becca died since it seemed like she was hit in the neck (with something sharp) somehow but we never got to see how Ryan's heat vision looks/how it hit Stormfront. I was totally expecting to see Becca partially fried or something.

 

[flickchick85]

I kinda take issue with how Becca died since it seemed like she was hit in the neck (with something sharp) somehow but we never got to see how Ryan's heat vision looks/how it hit Stormfront. I was totally expecting to see Becca partially fried or something.

I took it as Stormfront's grip being so tight when she was hit by the blast that she simply ripped open Becca's throat when she was blown back.

 

[kvz5]

I kinda take issue with how Becca died since it seemed like she was hit in the neck (with something sharp) somehow but we never got to see how Ryan's heat vision looks/how it hit Stormfront. I was totally expecting to see Becca partially fried or something.

I was expecting that too. Although, gosh, imagine how much more trauma Ryan would get from that.

 

[Dave McFly]

I took it as Stormfront's grip being so tight when she was hit by the blast that she simply ripped open Becca's throat when she was blown back.

I think you are on to something there