Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Thread Manager, Nov 19, 2012.
Did she really think about it?
You might want to go back and edit your posts OutOfBoose, some of those quotes are from multiple posters. You put words in Joker's mouth.
Regarding your post,
When we got on this subject, I actually looked at the script at these two moments to see what was in there (I tend to do that with all the Batman films, I'm always intrigued with the scripts for all of them, especially TDKR).
I thought this was interesting, they should have left some of these exchanges in (then again, I understand the reasoning behind limiting what Batman says considering Michael Keaton trimmed out most of his lines since he thought Batman would "never say this" and wanted to keep a low-key, cold demeanor),
The Tattooed Strongman swaggers out behind Batman and unleashes a savage kidney punch.
Batman painfully reels forward, keeping balance.
"Before I kill you, I"ll let you hit me. Hit me. Come on, hit as hard as you can. I need a good laugh."
Batman punches the Strongman's face. The Tattooed leviathan roars with laughter.
"You call that a ..."
The Tattooed Strongman stops laughing when he looks down and sees that Batman has attached the Thin Clown's bomb to the Not-so-Strongman's leopard skin. Batman gives him a calm, firm push into an open manhole.
Batman going pursuing Catwoman is pretty self-explanatory though, he just saw her flip out of Shrek's leveled department store, none of these lines between them are really needed, but,
EXT. BUILDING ROOFTOP--NIGHT
Batman storms up the last of the fire escape and passes Catwoman, curled atop a rooftop power shack. When she speaks, Batman turns to see her slink down.
"Where's the fire?"
"'Shreck's.' You --"
Catwoman launches a brutal kick in Batman's face. Batman vibrates back a few steps,
Catwoman spins, pounding Batman off the ledge. Then lashes out her whip, coiling it around Batman's flapping arm. With both hands, she jerks him up. Lashes her end of the whip to a weather vane.
"As I was saying: I'm a woman, and can't be taken for granted. Are you listening.
"Hanging on every word."
"Good joke. Wanna hear another one? The world tells boys to conquer the world, and girls to wear clean panties. A man dressed as a bat is a he-man, but a woman dressed as a cat is a she-devil. I'm just living down to my expectations. Life's a ***** -- now so am I. She runs her talons over the whip-lifeline.
Meantime with his free arm, Batman reaches into his utility belt and pulls out a plastic mini-test tube with a blue fluid on top, red fluid on the bottom, separated by a thin barrier.
A "he-man"? Sure. They shine that beacon in the sky, then wonder what hole I crawl out of.
"Wow, a real response and you're not even trying to get into my tights. But explain me ... If you're so down on "them" out there, why bust your ass to protect them?"
"I just can't sleep at night. Exploding department stores keep me up."
He snaps the tube. As the blue seeps into the red and the tube slowly glows purple ...
"I can't sleep either, lately. There's alittle link, between us. But bottom line, you live to preserve the peace, and I'm dying to disturb it. That could put a strain on our relationship."
Yeah...that's not how the justice system works. VIGILANTISM is indeed something. But for the concept of Batman to work--a nebulous force that operates outside the law, but is given legitimacy to a point by the police department that works with him instead of against him--he needs to behave at least soemwhere in the lines of the law. If he is just going out there Charles Bronson style, "They got what they deserve" ain't going to cut it in a courtroom. Hence why when the police did think Batman is a killer at the end of TDK, he became public enemy no. 1.
And not only that, but what Jonah Nolan said about it is that, it's too easy to just say Batman is going out there fighting the most violent criminals in Gotham without taking life. From a writer's perspective, they felt they had to challenge that notion in order for Batman to grow as a character. Enter The Joker. The whole thing in TDK is Bruce has to realize that regardless of his intentions, his actions do bring about the deaths of others. He's waging a war...there will be casualties.
Batman ALWAYS was officially an outlaw, regardless of his body count. He got some allies in GPD, but that was about it. But he would get them in any case. Remember, he worked with Gordon, who isn't afraid to step beyond the law, because he works with what he has. When it's necessary, it's necessary. More of that, police would never catch Batman. Things would be just the same.
He became an enemy number one for GPD (but not for everybody even there), because he killed a lawman and a symbol. Dent became a martyr. Police folk wouldn't take it personally otherwise. Criminal world plays dirty, why normal people shouldn't have their own joker for such cases.
I think, the only problem, that people have with murder of the strongman, is that he didn't have a kid at gunpoint. So Batman didn't have a BIG ENOUGH reason to kill him. It doesn't matter that there's a war going on.
Also, Batman behaves somewhere in the lines of the law in Batman Returns too. He doesn't carnage every single criminal he sees. I just don't get why people care about Batman's body count, when the streets are being turned into a war zone. And who knows how many normal people died that night.
Interesting info. Keaton is the man. ) I think, the final version is better. Doesn't break the tempo. But I like the line about exploding stores, that don't let Batman sleep at night. I think, it would establish Batman and Catwoman as enemies. So people wouldn't ask why they fought. But to me it looked pretty natural as it was.
And where's his arc? Batman STILL hesitates to kill dangerous criminals and terrorists after everything that happened in the previous movies.
Wow, I'm so glad that dialogue got cut out of Returns. Most of it is pretty terrible.
Oh wait, I vaguely remember now some poster on here who kept calling Anne "the princess diaries chick" from a while ago back when TDKR was still in production. Is OutRiddled this same guy still going on about this more than a year and a half later and obviously ignoring any of her other work?
That's like still calling Christian Bale "the Empire of the Sun" boy or Heath Ledger "the Knight's Tale" guy.
Michael Keaton was completely right to cut most of the lines from the script... but these should have stayed in.
He could have totally made these work.
That last line is pure Batman.
^ Right, because that person was a banned user, and they never ever return again under a different username.
OutRiddled admitted in the Community forums that he's been banned from multiple forums already: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=25570231&postcount=368
He also dodged my question: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=25591771&postcount=773
He knows I'm right. Only a troll would hang around forums bashing movies regularly that they have no interest in.
I don't answer silly accusations because it derails the thread.
Oh please. This post by itself was a derail of the thread topic as was your responses to Dark Raven's accusations, and the Batman Returns script milost posted.
You don't answer because you know I'm right. Nobody who hates these movies as much as you do posts in forums about them so regularly and so negatively unless they're trolling.
It'd be alright if Outriddled contributed and actually liked something from the last three Batman films but he seems to hate everything about them.
I don't know why you bother coming into this particular section personally. If there's nothing you like about it, there's nothing to defend or discuss. Sometimes you seem alright, but lately it feels like you're just pressing people's buttons. Not everyone agrees on things, that's obvious but demeanor is everything. Lately with the Hathaway stuff and other things, it feels like you're trying to get a rise out of folks.
Exactly. It's like he's threatened by their success and popularity so he has to constantly put them down to make himself feel better.
The GCPD would have cared even if he didn't kill Dent. He would be wanted for the murder of Maroni, Maroni's associate and at least one crooked cop. Killing a cop is a pretty fast way to "personalize" it with any law enforcement in the world.
However, even if it was just Maroni, Gordon would still have to go after him. Vigilantism is against the law. Batman breaks that law regularly, but when written in a certain context (i.e. Gotham is dire and corrupt), one can create a scenario where some cops will give him longitude long as he stays within parameters.
You want Batman to be Frank Castle. Besides the lone vigilante with a gun was pretty boring even back during the first Death Wish film, it would make the idea of cops working with him indefensible. He is then taking the law totally into his own hands and acting as judge, jury and executioner. That makes him a direct challenge to the authority and order of the system. That means he is a threat to society.
That is one very simple reason that he is not written to act that way. Nolan just chose to challenge the principle in a dramatic way during the second film. And, intriguingly, seems to imply that Batman has given up that rule in the third film. But by that point he is no longer a nightly vigilante nor is he a secret resource for the cops.
I don't want him to be Frank Castle. I want him to act smart and I don't see much problem if he kills in certain situations. I don't want him declaring "no guns, no killing". He's a hero, not an anti-hero. It's implied, that he wouldn't butcher everyone. He doesn't save Ra's, and it was great. He pushes Harvey and it was reasonable, he shoots at the truck - it was reasonable too. But I don't see much problem of him killing those thugs in Returns. It was in style with the movie and the story. I don't think anyone would blame him for that.
I don't want him to dance with bare fists (and camera gimmicks) against a group of people with fire arms. Where's his awesome arsenal of smoke pellets, flash bombs, tazers and stuff like that? Begins was great in this regard (except for a couple of scenes), TDK - too, Rises - not so much (but the tunnel scene was one of the best in the trilogy).
Lol, you are the biggest troll around here. You and your followers. Just because you have a 33,000 + post count and have been here since 2003 doesn't make you any less a troll. Why? Because you troll anyone who doesn't blindly worship Christopher Nolan. You are without a doubt the biggest Nolan fanboy around here.
I'm just about done with you.
Obviously you have not met batfreakforever
But seriously, if you think a poster like The Joker, who is reasonable and always discusses his opinions with constructive, logical arguments, is a troll, then I think you are just on a totally different wavelength than most people about what that term constitutes.
Oh my goodness. How wrong you are. You must have never read my posts on TDKR. I am very critical about a lot of aspects of it. Ask any of the regulars around here. Anno, Batlobster, Brain Damage etc. They'll tell you that. Take milost as an example. He is very critical over TDKR. Have you ever seen me have a go at him for it? No. In fact we see eye to eye on the movie. Heck you can go through my post history and find plenty of my critical posts on it.
I don't care if you think Nolan's movies are the worst things ever put on celluloid. Between your constant ferocious hatred, and your blatant trolling like the petty insults thrown at Anne Hathaway in this thread, that's what sticks out about your behavior as irksome. Nobody who hates these movies as much as you claim you do spends so much time here constantly putting them down. Not unless they're trolling.
The only constant critical posters are the ones who are fans of these movies in some way but have some problems with them, but you're not one of those people. So what are you doing here all the time?
Thank you, mate