The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else not like the 8 year exile plot?

[BatLobster]

I'd like to point out...my 90 year old grandmother legitimately broke her back a few years ago...and she healed within a year.

That's awesome!

 

[coderaven24]

I just loved watching Gordon's face watching the news

 

[BatLobster]

Unless Bruce was really really really horrible at landings when using that Bat cape/glider, I still have a hard time believing the cartilage of his knees was worn down that much from being Batman for just over a year. I mean, I don't think we ever got a shot of him basically just crashing with his glide-cape in Begins. And by TDK he was skilled enough to drop 4 stories without any effort. The only fall we see is when he was able to deploy only half the cape saving Rachel. That should have resulted in a back injury, BTW. We certainly never saw him crash while gliding like we did Keaton...
.

The fall after saving Dent's kid in TDK could have done it.

 

[DaveMoral]

Unless Bruce was really really really horrible at landings when using that Bat cape/glider, I still have a hard time believing the cartilage of his knees was worn down that much from being Batman for just over a year. I mean, I don't think we ever got a shot of him basically just crashing with his glide-cape in Begins. And by TDK he was skilled enough to drop 4 stories without any effort. The only fall we see is when he was able to deploy only half the cape saving Rachel. That should have resulted in a back injury, BTW. We certainly never saw him crash while gliding like we did Keaton...

So, to me, what injuries we do see him sustain stretches the credibility of him being too debilitated at the beginning of TDKR to have been the Bat for 8 years. I still think it makes sense for him to have accumulated more injuries over another 3-4 years after TDK prior to the Dent Act having been truly successful such that he could no longer do it physically... let alone with the sights of the GCPD fully turned on him.

I can't help but feel like the real reason for the apparent retirement of the Bat for 8 years is that Nolan did not want to leave a gap into which fans could say he should have made another film depicting Batman's battle against this or that rogue that Nolan didn't want to use or couldn't figure out how to use. Which is crazy to me, because with the mob gap left by the elimination of Falcone, Maroni and the others I could see Cobblepot and Sionis sticking their heads in the game. They would both be much more mafioso, but because of the combination of Batman and the Joker they donned their respective eccentricities. Or at least Sionis. He wants his thugs terrified of crossing him and his enemies more terrified. Hence the Black Mask. Cobblepot is just called the Penguin(perhaps to his chagrin as well) because he's a somewhat squat, chubby man who has a penchant for tuxedos. Between Batman and the Dent Act, they are taken down.

Bad taste to quote myself... but man! Now I realize how the drama of the passage of the Dent Act, the introduction of Cobblepot and Black Mask, and maybe a copy cat vigilante, could have made for a perfect opportunity for Nolan to do an adaptation of War Games.

 

[DACrowe]

He looks ineffective and weak at the start as it is. Having him injured for 8 years would have been more realistic for the injury. Plus it would have given Bane more time to truly twist the mentality of Gothams citizens rather than having him basically saying "I've blown up huge chunks of your city but you should follow me because I'm telling you Commissioner Gordon is a big fat phoney." He would have been able to really get into their heads and develop a B.ig Brother style relationship

For Batman to be Bane's prisoner for eight years looks much worse. Trust me.

Oh it's not like real world dictatorships have ever lasted more than 5 months. If we're going to play that game, in reality surely the US government wouldn't have let it last even 5 months.

Except no dictatorships exist in a hostaged city-state in the heart of the United States. Gotham in TDKR is basically the island of Manhattan. And yes, I do believe Manhattan being controlled by a warlord for five months is a hard pill to swallow. But it goes down just enough to let me go with the flow of the movie more than EIGHT YEARS. Nearly half-a-year is unbelievable, it just would become comical if it's 12 months or 18 months long, much less 96 months. The government would invade Gotham just to save credibility before they got to a 10th of that time span of being kept out.

 

[Tojo]

I don't see the 8yr gap as even necesarry. It could have been 4-5, timing the span between the films.

Imo, I'd have preferred it was alluded to him being active for a couple of yrs after TDK, but phasing himself out when he realised he wasn't needed. 8yrs is just far too long. Was there supposed to be a war afyer TDK?

 

[Drunkard Esq.]

For Batman to be Bane's prisoner for eight years looks much worse. Trust me.

He wouldn't have had to have been Bane's prisoner for all of the time he was away. They could have made it so that after recouperation his travels back to Gotham played a part of the story (i.e detective work, self discovery, new fighting techniques, using his wiles to get back etc, basically learning how to be better than Bane) rather than a gaping plot hole to be glossed over. Have it echo Batman Begins in that respect.

It wouldn't have had to be 8 years, that seems like a pretty arbitrary number anyway.

I guess my main point is that Batman being away from Gotham for a long period of time should have been because of Bane rather than the reason he loses to him.

I don't see the 8yr gap as even necesarry. It could have been 4-5, timing the span between the films.

Imo, I'd have preferred it was alluded to him being active for a couple of yrs after TDK, but phasing himself out when he realised he wasn't needed. 8yrs is just far too long.

Exactly. I think what really annoyed me was they went out of the way to explicitly state that the Batman hadn't been active since the night Dent died.

They purposely narrowed down the scope of just who this Batman is, rather leave room for the audience's imagination to fill in the gap. They left even the idea of the possibility of a legendary, prolific Batman no room to breathe.

 

[Golgo-13]

I just loved watching Gordon's face watching the news

During the 'Return of the Batman' chase?

 

[darknight7]

Bruce Wayne would never retire over the loss of a love interest. If anything he would be more consumed by his devotion to the cowl.

He would be lost in his Batman persona.

He would be out there meaner, angrier, scarier and stealthier than ever.

This was out of character and lame, it cheapens the ending of TDK.

I could go on and on but I choose not to...

--dk7

 

[darknight7]

To me it seems strange that his parents getting killed made him more determined than ever, but losing Rachel, basically made him a recluse for 8 years, that doesn't sit right as something Batman would do.

THIS!!^^^^

--dk7

 

[JackWhite]

For a man who is criticized for an over abundance of expository dialogue, I totally expected the 8 year gap to be explicit with the timeline of Bruce's mental and psychical demise over that time. Was the fall at the end of TDK the cause for Bruce's need for a cane? Truly, we don't know for sure. Blake mentions the last "confirmed" sighting of the Batman was the night Dent died. And I fully expected for Alfred to mention, when Bruce went into the bat-cave, that he hadn't been there in years, not just awhile.

I'm still part of team rooftop patrol for about a month or two until the Dent-act really kicked in, but I guess that whole team thing is played out?

 

[FCEEVIPER]

O.K, i get that he had to go into hiding after the Harvey Dent incident..but why 8 years?

And why is Bruce walking around with a cane 8 years later, as if his ordeal with Joker and Two-face happened last week.......? He's been injured for 8 years? What kinda injury lasts that long?

Plus, wouldn't ppl put two and two together that Batman has disappeared and so has Bruce Wayne.....

I would have liked it better if during those 8 years they would have mentioned bats facing off against Penguin and Riddler,etc...it saddens me that Nolans Batman has only faced off against Crane, Ra's, Joker, Bane and Catwoman...

8 years seems way too long of a hiatus...

I didn't mind the 8 year layoff..

All of GPD is hunting Batman non-stop, there are no Joker type villains terrorizing Gotham, mob had quite down, and losing Rachel didn't help. So yeah, I didn't mind it at all.

 

[JackWhite]

Bruce Wayne would never retire over the loss of a love interest. If anything he would be more consumed by his devotion to the cowl.

He would be lost in his Batman persona.

He would be out there meaner, angrier, scarier and stealthier than ever.

This was out of character and lame, it cheapens the ending of TDK.

I could go on and on but I choose not to...

--dk7

I see what you mean.

Bruce was lost in the Batman persona from behind closed doors. Bruce didn't retire Batman because of Rachel, if anything he retired Bruce Wayne because of her. Batman was forced into premature retirement because of the lie he constructed with Gordon to cover up Dent's murders.

But it would have been nice if Alfred mentioned to Bruce that "You went out there, night after night practically looking for wrongs to right, but Gotham no longer needed Batman. I guess, even after all of these years, you still haven't come to terms with that. And for that, I have truly failed you".

But then people would explain it's over expository.

 

[socool]

Bruce Wayne would never retire over the loss of a love interest. If anything he would be more consumed by his devotion to the cowl.

He would be lost in his Batman persona.

He would be out there meaner, angrier, scarier and stealthier than ever.

This was out of character and lame, it cheapens the ending of TDK.

I could go on and on but I choose not to...

--dk7

I completely see this point and for the most part, I agree, but I think Bruce gave up Batman because Gotham didn't need a Batman anymore. It wasn't until Selina stepped into his life that he donned the cape and cowl again because there was a reason. I could be wrong, though.

 

[JackWhite]

I completely see this point and for the most part, I agree, but I think Bruce gave up Batman because Gotham didn't need a Batman anymore. It wasn't until Selina stepped into his life that he donned the cape and cowl again because there was a reason. I could be wrong, though.

Indeed.

I think a lot of people are taking it that Bruce just quit because Rachel died. But that's not the case. Bruce very much wanted, needed to dawn the cape and cowl again. Hell, when he ran off to the cave and pulled up Selina's file, there was this spark back in him. The old Bruce Wayne, the man with a purpose, was back again. But only for a moment, till later of course.

 

[kvz5]

Was Bruce really a recluse though throughout the 8 years? Not talking about Batman but just Bruce shutting the world out. [blackout]Tate (or Fox?) said that he was working on the clean energy project and it wasn't until he realized how dangerous it could be 3 years ago that he became a recluse. Also, he had time to acquire the clean slate program so I think it hints to him working on some stuff at some point during those 8 years. [/blackout]

But yeah on the topic at hand... I was always on the camp that I would've preferred that he was active as Batman and got "lost in that monster of his" and they go on from that angle. When we heard that he was retired during those 8 years, I grew to accept it because I thought it would give us some meaty material. But considering how fast his transition was from recluse to normal again (less than 10 mins) then I'm not sure anymore if that 8 year exile was even necessary in the first place.

 

[Nevincer]

Was Bruce really a recluse though throughout the 8 years? Not talking about Batman but just Bruce shutting the world out. [blackout]Tate (or Fox?) said that he was working on the clean energy project and it wasn't until he realized how dangerous it could be 3 years ago that he became a recluse. Also, he had time to acquire the clean slate program so I think it hints to him working on some stuff at some point during those 8 years. [/blackout]

But yeah on the topic at hand... I was always on the camp that I would've preferred that he was active as Batman and got "lost in that monster of his" and they go on from that angle. When we heard that he was retired during those 8 years, I grew to accept it because I thought it would give us some meaty material. But considering how fast his transition was from recluse to normal again (less than 10 mins) then I'm not sure anymore if that 8 year exile was even necessary in the first place.

This is exactly how I feel. For such a dramatic plot point it was done with so swiftly that I didn't care for it at all, and it was something I was so excited for due to it's gravitas. Words can't express how disappointing that was.

 

[darknight7]

I see what you mean.

Bruce was lost in the Batman persona from behind closed doors. Bruce didn't retire Batman because of Rachel, if anything he retired Bruce Wayne because of her. Batman was forced into premature retirement because of the lie he constructed with Gordon to cover up Dent's murders.

But it would have been nice if Alfred mentioned to Bruce that "You went out there, night after night practically looking for wrongs to right, but Gotham no longer needed Batman. I guess, even after all of these years, you still haven't come to terms with that. And for that, I have truly failed you".

But then people would explain it's over expository.

I don't think it would have been over expository (but I could see those who would)

I personally like what you did there...

--dk7

 

[Drunkard Esq.]

I see what you mean.

Bruce was lost in the Batman persona from behind closed doors. Bruce didn't retire Batman because of Rachel, if anything he retired Bruce Wayne because of her. Batman was forced into premature retirement because of the lie he constructed with Gordon to cover up Dent's murders.

But it would have been nice if Alfred mentioned to Bruce that "You went out there, night after night practically looking for wrongs to right, but Gotham no longer needed Batman. I guess, even after all of these years, you still haven't come to terms with that. And for that, I have truly failed you".

But then people would explain it's over expository.

Something along those lines would have been perfect. Although I don't know why you'd also want to pin the blame for that on poor Alfred, he gets teary enough as it is!

 

[Saint]

I'd like to point out...my 90 year old grandmother legitimately broke her back a few years ago...and she healed within a year.

It's also worth noting that not all spinal injuries are equal. Both my parents suffered them skydiving, and recovered in months, not years. Out of the hospital in days, actually.

 

[Saint]

Indeed.

I think a lot of people are taking it that Bruce just quit because Rachel died. But that's not the case. Bruce very much wanted, needed to dawn the cape and cowl again. Hell, when he ran off to the cave and pulled up Selina's file, there was this spark back in him. The old Bruce Wayne, the man with a purpose, was back again. But only for a moment, till later of course.

Yes, the film makes it quite clear he wanted to be Batman again--Alfred even accuses him of "waiting for things to go bad again" so at he has the excuse.

Bruce didn't quit because of Rachel, but he did become a hermit because of her. He quit because there was nothing left for Batman to do--and with Rachel dead, there was nothing left for Bruce Wayne, either.

 

[The Guard]

Yes, the film makes it quite clear he wanted to be Batman again--Alfred even accuses him of "waiting for things to go bad again" so at he has the excuse.

Eh...the film hints at Alfred feeling that way. Bruce never once admits it. He becomes Batman because Gotham needs him again, and then retires Batman as soon as he can by faking his death.

 

[darknight7]

It's also worth noting that not all spinal injuries are equal. Both my parents suffered them skydiving, and recovered in months, not years. Out of the hospital in days, actually.

Out of a "hospital"? you say?

Bruce was in an underground jail/pit in the middle of no where with nothing but a man who punched him in the back once...

Spoiler

dumb

--dk7

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Eh...the film hints at Alfred feeling that way. Bruce never once admits it. He becomes Batman because Gotham needs him again, and then retires Batman as soon as he can by faking his death.

I think it would've made more sense for him to be breaking down because he didn't take an eight year hiatus.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This is exactly how I feel. For such a dramatic plot point it was done with so swiftly that I didn't care for it at all, and it was something I was so excited for due to it's gravitas. Words can't express how disappointing that was.

Agree.