Comics Asm #534 *spoilers*

[MyPokerShirt]

im not listening! *sings**ignores obviousness of another mistake*


although, if you wana get technical: after all the tests reed and stark did after the other rebirth wouldnt an x-ray be one of them? so how come stark was surprised by the bone stingers in FNSM mexican wrestler arc? really these powers should have been explored by now...

 

[J. J. Jameson]

yeah i read that other thread. savemarvel and nuttyfruitcake are one and the same right?

They are? That's too lame for words.

 

[SpideyInATree]

yeah i read that other thread. savemarvel and nuttyfruitcake are one and the same right?

Yeah, they are one and the same. And he also created two other names.

 

[spideylover89]

You can tell because they are all
1) anti-Marvel
2) just joined within the last month or so
3) have lowercase and unspaced usernames

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Yeah, they are one and the same. And he also created two other names.

Why? It's pointless.

 

[MaraJanesSlave]

Just to add on to the whole spider-sense debacle, in HoM #1 he announced to the gathered group that he has a "spider-sense when there's danger." This was before reality was altered so shouldn't everyone who was present still have the memory of that...

As much as I hate defending this... this... stuff, IM had no memory of HoM, according to the last ish of that mini.

~Mara Jane

 

[rabidfanboy]

I thought he didn't have memories of the actual event, the altered reality, not what happened before it. I mean, did he forget about Wanda and what she did to the Avengers.

 

[Chuck_the_bear]

You feel like this because of bad writing and an amalgramated excuse to backpedal out of the new costume as well as all that came with it. Every fan does. The trick is to look at the tale from what Marvel has told us and realizing that we shouldn't be driven towards one side or the other.

Anyone else remember when they were defending all of this by saying Peter deserved to have all these perks? Now it seems everyone is silent and just pointing us to the Cap/Iron Man battle. Hmm...

i just never liked SPiderman

and Im mad cause Iron man was my hero and now he's being a NEW american spying on friends, wanting to knwo everything of everyone

and the writting is great

 

[Sloth7d]

As much as I hate defending this... this... stuff, IM had no memory of HoM, according to the last ish of that mini.

~Mara Jane

That still doesn't explain him knowing about it in friendly nieghborhood spiderman.

 

[Spade]

i just never liked SPiderman

and Im mad cause Iron man was my hero and now he's being a NEW american spying on friends, wanting to knwo everything of everyone

and the writting is great

Do you not see that they are sacrificing Iron Man's reputation to make a scapegoat on the Pro-Registration side? They're dragging two characters through the mud here, if you didn't notice- Peter (by making him look like a dunce and taking him away from his everyman behaviors) and Tony (by making him out to be the villain so that they only validify the complaint some of us have had all along- that Marvel chose a side way beforehand in some stupid silent protest of current events at the cost of classic characters).

And no, it's not good writing. If that were the case, they would not need to hype up the Cap/Iron Man fight. We're going to look back to this years from now and realize that this was a giant publicity hype for Marvel to bring attention to the fact that they've made so much change (most of which is unwarranted and unwanted). That does not make for a memorable story. A good one for the moment? Yes. The cornerstone of an enduring tale? Not in the least.

 

[Chuck_the_bear]

well I think its time to change... I mean ok
Iron is a Industrialist, so he figures it's good to be with the government or he'll lose contrats
and Parker has ALWAYS been a dunce, look at how many people he trusted who later turned into his enimes

 

[Sloth7d]

well I think its time to change... I mean ok
Iron is a Industrialist, so he figures it's good to be with the government or he'll lose contrats
and Parker has ALWAYS been a dunce, look at how many people he trusted who later turned into his enimes

trusting =/= moron

 

[Spade]

well I think its time to change... I mean ok
Iron is a Industrialist, so he figures it's good to be with the government or he'll lose contrats
and Parker has ALWAYS been a dunce, look at how many people he trusted who later turned into his enimes

The formulas have worked on a basic level for Marvel for half a century. All change has done is forced the fanbase to protest said change, and irk the higher-ups who feel they are pleasing the fanboys. You don't have to go through all that when the basics aren't put in a blender. As for your "characterizations", Tony has been pinned by the same government he works with with so many things it's not even funny. And initially he was against it, so don't forget that for a time he was Anti-Registration.

And Peter? A dunce? No. Let's never use those two phrases in tandem for the true Peter Parker. Peter can beat the Hulk and Doc Ock not because he's stronger but because he uses his wits. He is trusting, but not so trusting as to what Civil War wants us to believe. Peter is no fool, and that it took him so long to learn the truth just makes this reborn Peter look like a stooge.

 

[Chuck_the_bear]

IM sorry

it's just... this is COMIC book..
not real life.. the story is great
the writing is good
the graphics are nice
I like it

cause I know these people aint real

 

[DACrowe]

This is true but if you want Spider-Man to continue as a franchise series to follow in years (let's face it, Marvel's hoping DECADES) to come, you don't betray the foundations of the character, simply because it will sell comic books.

Most crossovers (on the large scale) suck. There I said it. This is a great idea. It takes essientially what is happening in our country now (media and literature always reflect current events and ideologies) and hte basic debate on what is right and wrong in a person's right (wire tapping anyone? Right to a trial in Guantanmo Bay? Etc.) is brought to the forefront.

And yes Marvel took a side, but let's face it, the neo-cons....er pro-regs are morally and constitutionally wrong. What irks the fans is Spider-Man should not be with them.

I read this issue and JMS is trying to make due the best he can but the last page where Spidey admits he hates the law and thinks it sucks but will support it because it is the law....what the ****? Since when has Spider-Man been Judge Dredd? He breaks the law to do what he knows is responsible and right all the time. The cops hate him, he still has murder warrants on his name and about half a billion dollars probably owed in property damage (probably more) not to mention all the villains. He sees how terrible when just two (Green Goblin and Venom) know who he is, so he reveals it to the whole world?!

And why again....oh yeah because Bush....er, Iron Man told him to. Since when has Peter EVER been a puppet. Out of character. I think Spidey is on the wrong side and this written epiphany would work maybe in Ultimate Spider-Man or back when Pete was young but it makes him look like a moron to be taking Iron Man's orders and doing the wrong thing, knowing it is wrong.

Meh. Oh well. I think overall Civil War is a good crossover but Peter needs to grow more (start a family dammit! They still want a baby don't they?) and just should have skipped the whole....oh guess what Vulture kidnapped MJ this week now.

 

[Spade]

Meh. Oh well. I think overall Civil War is a good crossover but Peter needs to grow more (start a family dammit! They still want a baby don't they?) and just should have skipped the whole....oh guess what Vulture kidnapped MJ this week now.

Yeah...the last time we tried to have Peter 'grow' as a character Marvel Time got in the way and thus was born Sins Past (or as I prefer to call it, Stan's Pissed). The guys over at Marvel don't really know how to handle anything past superficial changes nowadays.

IM sorry

it's just... this is COMIC book..
not real life.. the story is great
the writing is good
the graphics are nice
I like it

cause I know these people aint real

...Everyone here knows they're not real. You know, I'm not actually "talking" to you- it's a message board. And this isn't really "my post" so much as this is my loaning of this space from SHH to use and be edited or deleted at any time. Not exactly the world's best rebuttal, acquaintance...

 

[DACrowe]

Was Stan pissed about Sins Past? Really?

 

[spideylover89]

Yeah...the last time we tried to have Peter 'grow' as a character Marvel Time got in the way and thus was born Sins Past (or as I prefer to call it, Stan's Pissed). The guys over at Marvel don't really know how to handle anything past superficial changes nowadays.

That was actually more "growth" for Gwen instead of Pete, but I see your point. First of all they shouldn't be trying to add depth to a character that's been dead for 30 years when they have a live one that has been stuck in development limbo.

I agree with DA, the next best thing for Pete would be starting a family. Yes it would age him, but Marvel is looking at the age thing the wrong way. It won't turn away young readers because Spidey would become a father figure (if he already isn't one). Kids look up to guys like spidey and either want to a)be him or b)have a dad like him. Now what would make spidey any more relatable as a father figure than him becoming an actual father?

 

[spideylover89]

IM sorry

cause I know these people aint real

That's not a good way to look at it because if that was everyone's attitude then the writers could do whatever they want with him. Without a solid foundation the character would be changing every week. One minute he's a jerk, the next he's a boy scout. Without consistency you lose the effect of realism and the reader becomes disassociated with the story. The point is making the reader believe for a few minutes that these are real people even though they know it's fiction. They have to care for the characters, they have to be attached in some way to the characters. If they aren't then it's completely pointless and there is no reason to sit down every month to read the next story.

 

[Themanofbat]

I read this issue and JMS is trying to make due the best he can but the last page where Spidey admits he hates the law and thinks it sucks but will support it because it is the law....what the ****? Since when has Spider-Man been Judge Dredd? He breaks the law to do what he knows is responsible and right all the time. The cops hate him, he still has murder warrants on his name and about half a billion dollars probably owed in property damage (probably more) not to mention all the villains. He sees how terrible when just two (Green Goblin and Venom) know who he is, so he reveals it to the whole world?!

Spidey has never really broken any big time laws other than leaving the scene of a crime when the cops are yelling "Stop!", escaping the police when they wanted to question him for the murder Captain Stacy, and the occasional break-ins, etc...

Spidey has some respect for the law and for what is right. Why the hell do you think he's a "good" guy? And I will admit, that he does indeed break minor laws when it's the responsible thing to do at that time.

As far as the cops hating him... maybe. Police generally don't like vigilantes, but he has had friends on the force many times, going as far back as Jean DeWolffe, and this was at a time when he WAS wanted for questioning of the murder of Capt. Stacy. And if you ever read ASM #186, Spider-Man has never been charged nor has there ever been ANY warrants by the police for murders... not even Captain Stacy. They just wanted to question him.

Read the damn stories... Peter's being pressured by an old ally and friend that it's the right thing to do... his Aunt May, the ONE person whom he has done soooooooooooo much for during his entire crime-fighting career, gives him her blessing. Try to think of the amount of STRESS that was relieved off Peter's shoulders when she did that. All that he has endured his entire life in order to avoid his Aunt May having a heart attack if she ever found out he was that "terrible Spider-Man"... All the guilt of having to lie to her to protect her... Everything... and for one brief moment, she gives him HER blessing that what he's about to do is the right thing to do. Despite his apprehensions on the whole thing, this one little moment of euphoric magic clearly goes to his head, and he does it. He reveals himself. The way it was presented is so much in the character of Peter Parker (at least it is to me), that I have no clue how others are reading it. But he did it. I can clearly see how he was pressured to do it... and now, after everything has settled, he starts to think with a clearer head, and starts to doubt his decision.

Like it was mentioned in the last issue, everything that he has ever wanted is finally his... yet it feels wrong.

It's my opinion that the characterization is spot-on, and for those that can't see it, that's too bad.

And having said that, that's merely my two cents.

Cheers...

 

[Sloth7d]

Spiderman HAS run from the cops plenty of times.
Most memorable is when Spiderman was wanted for questioning in the abduction of Normy Osborn.And when he was the primary suspect in the murder of Joey Z. Not to mention the 5 mill reward that was put on his head for attacking the green goblin in the form of his alter ego.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Read the damn stories... Peter's being pressured by an old ally and friend that it's the right thing to do... his Aunt May, the ONE person whom he has done soooooooooooo much for during his entire crime-fighting career, gives him her blessing. Try to think of the amount of STRESS that was relieved off Peter's shoulders when she did that. All that he has endured his entire life in order to avoid his Aunt May having a heart attack if she ever found out he was that "terrible Spider-Man"... All the guilt of having to lie to her to protect her... Everything... and for one brief moment, she gives him HER blessing that what he's about to do is the right thing to do. Despite his apprehensions on the whole thing, this one little moment of euphoric magic clearly goes to his head, and he does it. He reveals himself. The way it was presented is so much in the character of Peter Parker (at least it is to me), that I have no clue how others are reading it. But he did it.

I have read the stories...and I'll take your two arguments one at a time..

1/ Tony Stark pressured him to unmask?. Show me?...seriously, show me the issue # and title where this happens? You can't because it doesn't....the closest can be found in ASM 532 :

Tony Stark : I'm saying that because of my position, I have to make sure everything is on the up and up, that means the only way Peter Parker can work with me is if Spider-man unmasks

In this discussion, Stark could either mean Spidey unmasks for the general public or for the authorities....Stark isn't specific....but once Peter says he can't do it, Stark immediately comes back with

Tony Stark: It's not me asking Pete, if you don't unmask you'll be just like the other powers that defy the law.

Clearly when Stark tells Pete to unmask, he means in front of the authorities because his comparison to others who "defy the law" would be irrelevant....none of the others were asked to unmask in front of the public...nor would refusing to unmask "publicly" put him in violation of the law

No-where in ASM or Civil War has Stark ever told Pete to unmask in front of the public....Stark's happy he did it...but Pete didn't have to and he wasn't asked to......and even if I believe Pete would be willing to put his family in more danger today than they were in yesterday, cause his good bud told him to (which I don't)...his good bud didn't tell him to....Pete could have just registered and still been by his bud's side......Pete's willingness to place his family in more danger today than they were yesterday, when he clearly didn't have to.....is piss poor characterization

2/ Cause his Aunt May told him to. Euphoric?...goes to his head?.....Spider-man isn't a 13 year old child excited because his Mommy is watching him dive off the high Board...he's an adult...an adult whose life will ever be changed because his identity caused the one he loved to die. If Aunt May had asked Pete to do something that Pete knew would endanger her.....he'd have said no....in the 60's 70's 80' and 90's.....he says yes this time because the story requires it...not because it's honest to the character. ...

Don't get me wrong MOTB.....I'm loving Civil War....and since the unmasking I tend to agree with the characterization.....IT's beyond me how anyone can argue that Spidey wouldn't fight other heroes unless said people missed the 70's when every second issue of Spidey pitted him against a different superhero.....

...but the unmasking's out of character....however thus far it's created a great story....hence I can overlook it....."The Other" on the other hand was out of character but it created nothing more than a mess....unforgiveable....

...and that's my 2 cents

 

[The Jester]

Don't know if this is mentioned
but in Friendly neighborhood spider-man #4, it seems Iron man, Captain America, and even Mr.Fantastic all know that Peter has a spider-sense
Go look over the beginning of the issue
Peter even "demonstrates" his spider-sense to Tony.

 

[Miss Webb]

I dunno, I thought Spidey held back during the fight with Cap and his heart wasn't in it. After all, they aren't enemies no matter what promise Stark has from Peter. How do you just launch into someone you like, respect and admire? It makes no sense. And Cap has a good 'read' on Spidey's motivations. But as for Peter 'adoring' Cap, that's a bit much. During the Queen storyline he was pretty insolent and wisecracking. You got the impression he liked Cap, but thought he took himself too seriously. I kind of like the insanity of all this...heroes fighting heroes over policy. We'll have that mega splash page soon of everybody fighting everybody.

And does Kitty Pride still dig Peter in the main title? Or is that another series?

 

[Miss Webb]

Okay here's what's up for #535:

From Marvel.Com-
THE STORY:
CIVIL WAR Tie-in
“THE WAR AT HOME”
Caught in the throes of the Civil War that’s ripping apart the super hero community, Spider-Man contemplates a move that will mean new friends and new foes. In a conflict of this magnitude, three is no middle ground -- Peter Parker’s move will cast him as either George Washington...or Benedict Arnold. Part 3 (of 6).
32 PGS./Rated A ...$2.99

The cover is looking like this:

YES! Looks like the Iron Man/Spidey fight is on its way

Pretty art, but I see Spidey once again has the porportions of a child.