The Amazing Spider-Man ASM: Stuff You Didn't Like Thread

[Eddie Brock]

Bulletin Board: picture of Uncle Ben, picture of young Peter with parents, wanted poster.

Words being mentioned by Uncle Ben's voicemail while the camera moves over the bulletin board: "...unresolved..."

Seriously? I'm going to feel like an idiot if I missed that both times!

 

[Jexx]

Those first 3 are all of the same fight...the school fight. That happens just right after Lizard scratches Peter in the sewer. The school to find Peter is the very next place Lizard goes. That final pic, the NYPD scene right before the final battle, does not have the gashes running across the suit...hence my point.

No. Peter gets cleaned up by Gwen before the school fight, and that last picture obviously has gashes in it.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Since we're talking about SM1 and ASM, I'll put my two cents in. While I thought certain aspects of ASM improved on the Raimi film, I can't goes as far as to say ASM is drastically better or I enjoyed it more .

I really don't see some drastic difference between the two films. It's not like comparing TDK to B&R.

On a side note though, I do suspect that alot of the "this is so much better than the raimi films" arguement is really aimed at Spiderman 3 more then the first two. Spiderman 3 amplified all of the minor problems from the other two films and left a bad taste in people's mouths. After that, the narrative of that "All Raimi films sucked "began to take hold. However, what people forget is that the reason why Spiderman 3 was rejected was because the first two films were embraced for the most part among the GA.

This. A thousand times, this.

I really dislike the revisionist evaluation of Raimi as someone who never got Spider-Man, or Tobey as completely miscast. From 2002-2007, people LOVED Raimi's movies and thought that Tobey was a great choice. It was after Spider-Man 3 when everyone who had a gripe with Raimi started becoming way more vocal about it, while all the people who still liked his work didn't speak up as much. That's the way it is with any movie. The ones still talking about something years after tend to be the ones with the biggest axe to grind.

Was Raimi perfect? No. Did his Spider-Man refrain from wisecracks in a lot of action scenes? Yes. But what good reason is there for him to wisecrack if a loved one's life is hanging in the balance, or if he's in a fight to the death with a former friend? That's the majority of fight scenes in Raimi's movies. Wisecracking didn't always fit the circumstances. But it wasn't completely absent either. Spidey talked smack to the pro wrestler during their match, and there were fun moments like his "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" stuff.

With Amazing out now, people are seizing on this new thing as proof that Raimi never got it right before...when TASM is practically the same movie as the 2002 version. The camp has been dialed down a notch, and Peter actually confides in Gwen while he mostly pined after MJ from a distance.

In my opinion, where the TASM falls short of the 2002 movie is the portrayal of Peter's growing selfishness in the time leading up to Uncle Ben's death. In TASM, it was more like a few bad choices rather than any serious ego problems or surlyness, which Raimi's movie portrayed far better.

Also, while Gwen talked with Peter more than MJ did, winning her over was not the challenge or accomplishment that winning MJ was. The 2002 movie showed Peter struggling with his shyness, unable to even approach MJ in the beginning. It showed MJ's abuse at the hands of her father, and her relationship with the insensitive jock Flash Thompson. Later she was with Harry, but he chose his daddy issues over her. Peter was that nice guy who liked her and provided her with affection, when she was used to nothing but abuse from everyone else. In TASM, Gwen basically just decides that she likes Peter from the beginning, even as he stuttered in front of her or openly refused to tell her things. I think that Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone had better interaction, but the Tobey/Kirsten romance had more to it beneath the surface.

Basically, I would refrain from holding up either the 2012 or 2002 versions as head and shoulders above the other, since there are pros and cons to both, and they are in many ways the same movie anyway.

 

[chaseter]

No. Peter gets cleaned up by Gwen before the school fight, and that last picture obviously has gashes in it.

It does not have gashes horizontally across the suit.

 

[Jexx]

You're right, it doesn't. The slashes are diagonal.. just like the ones inflicted on him by the lizard.

 

[Havok83]

Also, while Gwen talked with Peter more than MJ did, winning her over was not the challenge or accomplishment that winning MJ was. The 2002 movie showed Peter struggling with his shyness, unable to even approach MJ in the beginning. It showed MJ's abuse at the hands of her father, and her relationship with the insensitive jock Flash Thompson. Later she was with Harry, but he chose his daddy issues over her. Peter was that nice guy who liked her and provided her with affection, when she was used to nothing but abuse from everyone else. In TASM, Gwen basically just decides that she likes Peter from the beginning, even as he stuttered in front of her or openly refused to tell her things. I think that Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone had better interaction, but the Tobey/Kirsten romance had more to it beneath the surface.

Well Im pretty sure thats the point. Its all speculation, but I think they are gearing up for the triangle between Peter, Gwen and MJ. This movie established Gwen as Peter's first love; the one that got away. MJ can enter the in the next movie and they can play the dynamics between the 3. Wont quite work if little happened between Peter and Gwen in this film. Assuming this is the route they are going in, I think they handled the Peter/Gwen relationship just fine

 

[Jexx]

I don't think that the 2nd movie will include MJ as someone Peter will fall in love with. You can tell at the end of the movie that he is pretty close to completely loving Gwen.

Also, I think in the game they're together, but I'm not sure, haven't played it. :/

 

[Havok83]

I don't think that the 2nd movie will include MJ as someone Peter will fall in love with. You can tell at the end of the movie that he is pretty close to completely loving Gwen.

Also, I think in the game they're together, but I'm not sure, haven't played it. :/

And he's a teenager with Gwen being the first girl he's cared for. She wont be the last. Peter doesnt have to fall in love with MJ in the next movie, but it is a good place to introduce her. He wasnt in love with MJ when he first met her in the books, but there definetly was an attraction that was played off. It wasnt till after Gwen died, that MJ picked up the pieces and he fell in love with her. I can see this film series following that pattern.

Game is not canon and the next movie doesnt have to follow anything from it.

 

[Supa]

And he's a teenager with Gwen being the first girl he's cared for. She wont be the last. Peter doesnt have to fall in love with MJ in the next movie, but it is a good place to introduce her. He wasnt in love with MJ when he first met her in the books, but there definetly was an attraction that was played off. It wasnt till after Gwen died, that MJ picked up the pieces and he fell in love with her. I can see this film series following that pattern.

Game is not canon and the next movie doesnt have to follow anything from it.

Well, the Marvel wiki says they take place in the same universe. Maybe not the best source of info, but it's something.

 

[Jexx]

No, it doesn't. I'm still going to treat it as canon though, except the parts that the movies contradict.

 

[Havok83]

Well, the Marvel wiki says they take place in the same universe. Maybe not the best source of info, but it's something.

The game is based of the events of the movie but the next movie does NOT have to be based off the events of the game. Its not canon to the movie franchise. The way the game was approached was to give the developers the freedom to do what they wanted with the characters and stories without having to be too bound by the film and any future films

 

[Jexx]

...I'm still going to treat it like it is in my understanding of the universe. I wouldn't use it as fact on the forums though..

 

[Mistah K88]

The conspiriacy stuff...it's TOO much.

I do think J. Jonah Stacy should have stayed alive and actually built a relationship with Peter/Spider-Man rather than his last minute change of heart. The fact that they were going after Spidey, when The Lizard was proven to be real just reeks of Jameson. George Stacy didn't really get enough real time to develop in my opinion.

 

[Majmun]

1. I didn't like that he revealed himself already to several people.

2. I didn't like the relationship between Peter and Gwen. That scene where he webbed her and brought her to him was very cheesy.

3. I wish they would have shown how he developed the web-slinging contraption and also his outfit. It was all too quick.

4. I didn't like how sometimes his hands stuck to things and sometimes they didn't. Wasn't consistent.

5. Didn't care for the basketball scene, too cheesy for my tastes. I mean he's flying through the air, up above the rim of the basketball goal, and no one seems to think nothing is odd about that? Or that a ball is stuck to his hand and a strong boy can't pull it away with both hands? Nobody thought that was odd, especially a guy who was wimpy before?

6. How did Spiderman get in that car before the thief? The thief had to use a device to get in, but Spiderman was already in there?

7. All those lizards in the city going to where Dr. Connors was hiding? That was silly, especially that they were crawling on the web to get there. What purpose did that serve? Why were they drawn to him? There are Lizards like that in NYC?

8. I did not like how Peter was bitten by the spider.

 

[Jexx]

I don't get the complaint about Peter telling multiple people about his identity. He never actually told anyone that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, aside from Gwen (and even then, he didn't 'tell' her).

 

[kguillou]

He was unmasked alot in this movie though. Granted, this is probably a more realisitic approach than say the comics but still it would have been nice to maintain the mystery a little bit. Btw, does Aunt May know he's spidey too? That scene at the end where he comes home all beat up and aunt may looks at him in shock....does she know? Were they subtly implying that?

 

[Daybreak_st]

They dropped it because he suddenly had a much bigger issue to deal with. He had just been lectured by Cpt. Stacey about how Spider-Man wasn't actually trying to help anyone but, was rather just some guy with a vendetta. Then he had the bridge scene and realized he could do better by helping people instead of pursuing his vendetta. That's where he becomes Spider-Man and takes Ben's words about responsibility to heart and realizes it's not about revenge. Just like Ben told him after picking him up from school.

QFT excellent post! I really don't understand how people aren't getting that in this movie they actually gave Peter a significant character arc that was different than the Raimi movies. He's essentially angry and out for revenge. He starts going after the guy then once he fights that gang and they say "we've seen your face" he starts wearing a mask. That begins the development of his overall costume. But like you said he doesn't become a true hero until he stops blindingly pursuing his vendetta and starts really helping people. I absolutely loved the bridge scene where he saved that kid. Just so well done. That's when he became Spider-man.

I'm not dissing the Raimi films just establishing that the character had a different arc. In those films he catches the bad guy immediately and doesn't pursue the hero thing until after a graduation, which i can assume was a few weeks later at least. Then he becomes a hero etc. It was still well done but I thought ASM gave him a more organic character arc. He didn't just become a hero, he need to embrace something larger than his personal vendetta and that scene with Cap Stacy really brought that out, and just emphasized what his Uncle ben was trying to tell him.

 

[Daybreak_st]

He was unmasked alot in this movie though. Granted, this is probably a more realisitic approach than say the comics but still it would have been nice to maintain the mystery a little bit. Btw, does Aunt May know he's spidey too? That scene at the end where he comes home all beat up and aunt may looks at him in shock....does she know? Were they subtly implying that?

Yeah pretty sure she figured it out. She knew he was out a lot and had a secret. Then there is a moment of recognition on her face when Peter walks out when Cap Stacy calls for his arrest on TV. By the end she knows. I like that the movie doesn't spell it out for you. Although to be honest the Raimi films implied it too when aunt may gave him the hero speech in SM 2.

 

[Troy_Parker]

That final pic, the NYPD scene right before the final battle, does not have the gashes running across the suit...hence my point.

The gashes are still there.

 

[Daybreak_st]

This. A thousand times, this.

I really dislike the revisionist evaluation of Raimi as someone who never got Spider-Man, or Tobey as completely miscast. From 2002-2007, people LOVED Raimi's movies and thought that Tobey was a great choice. It was after Spider-Man 3 when everyone who had a gripe with Raimi started becoming way more vocal about it, while all the people who still liked his work didn't speak up as much. That's the way it is with any movie. The ones still talking about something years after tend to be the ones with the biggest axe to grind.

Was Raimi perfect? No. Did his Spider-Man refrain from wisecracks in a lot of action scenes? Yes. But what good reason is there for him to wisecrack if a loved one's life is hanging in the balance, or if he's in a fight to the death with a former friend? That's the majority of fight scenes in Raimi's movies. Wisecracking didn't always fit the circumstances. But it wasn't completely absent either. Spidey talked smack to the pro wrestler during their match, and there were fun moments like his "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" stuff.

With Amazing out now, people are seizing on this new thing as proof that Raimi never got it right before...when TASM is practically the same movie as the 2002 version. The camp has been dialed down a notch, and Peter actually confides in Gwen while he mostly pined after MJ from a distance.

In my opinion, where the TASM falls short of the 2002 movie is the portrayal of Peter's growing selfishness in the time leading up to Uncle Ben's death. In TASM, it was more like a few bad choices rather than any serious ego problems or surlyness, which Raimi's movie portrayed far better.

Also, while Gwen talked with Peter more than MJ did, winning her over was not the challenge or accomplishment that winning MJ was. The 2002 movie showed Peter struggling with his shyness, unable to even approach MJ in the beginning. It showed MJ's abuse at the hands of her father, and her relationship with the insensitive jock Flash Thompson. Later she was with Harry, but he chose his daddy issues over her. Peter was that nice guy who liked her and provided her with affection, when she was used to nothing but abuse from everyone else. In TASM, Gwen basically just decides that she likes Peter from the beginning, even as he stuttered in front of her or openly refused to tell her things. I think that Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone had better interaction, but the Tobey/Kirsten romance had more to it beneath the surface.

Basically, I would refrain from holding up either the 2012 or 2002 versions as head and shoulders above the other, since there are pros and cons to both, and they are in many ways the same movie anyway.

You make some great points and I agree, SM 1 and 2 have a lot of merit and deserve respect. For me comparing them to ASM is equivalent to comparing the 89 BAtman to BAtman Begins. Both featured the same character but they were just different interpretations and while I may favor one above the other that doesn't discredit the other one.

Same with Spidey. I honestly loved ASM. And I prefer the interpretation primarily because the characters seemed more well defined and it avoids the whole pining after and object of affection that so many superhero movies feature. After SM 1 I was pretty much over Peter and MJ getting together and her character became less likable with each movie. Then in SM 3 Pete becomes a jerk and they split. I just dislike contrived reasons for people to stay apart. It reminds me of Clark and Lana from Smallville. You never get solid reasons for WHY he cares so much about her just that he does. She's the object of his affection, the prize that he needs to get so to speak. Same with Peter and MJ from the previous trilogy. She's the girl he's always loved, and his attainment of her is this huge deal. I prefer the more organic relationship in ASM. They're two teenagers who kind of like each other and they get together. They are a bit awkward etc, but he just rings true. It's built up to be the huge accomplishment, she's not the prize etc.

In that she can actually function as more than just a damsel in distress or plot device. I'm sorry but It just seemed so contrived that in each film see winds up getting captured by the villain and used as bate for Spider-man . Really, each villain had the same idea? That's just a bit much. It worked in SM 1 and seemed natural the repetition was irritating. I was so relived that although she was in danger in ASM she saved herself. She was never the focus of the villain or used as bate. And he actually helped Peter. She served nicely as a confidant/sidekick in this film which was great.

Overall, in the same way I'm glad NOlan had a very different interpretation of Batman instead of retreading everything Burton did. I'm equally happy that while we did get another origin story the interpretation was so different it didn't feel like we were retreading old ground. even uncle ben's death etc handling it different just made it feel better than if they tried to hit all the same notes as the previous films.

 

[chaseter]

Lizard was created in part bc of Peter but knowing and being close to Peter wasnt what got Captain Stacy killed, so that analogy doesnt fit with Gwen at all

Let me make a real life analogy where I am dating a girl and I get her dad killed because I created a super villain that kills him.

Peter got Stacy killed because Peter had a hand in creating the Lizard that led to that situation. Peter will likely have a hand in future villains and Stacy knows that...hence why Stacy wants Gwen to stay away. But that doesn't matter to Gwen apparently.

 

[chaseter]

The gashes are still there.

Spoiler

Spoiler

That's from a different battle. Look how much different they look:

Lizard rips his costume on his chest huge and then he goes to see Gwen.

 

[Daybreak_st]

Let me make a real life analogy where I am dating a girl and I get her dad killed because I created a super villain that kills him.

Peter got Stacy killed because Peter had a hand in creating the Lizard that led to that situation. Peter will likely have a hand in future villains and Stacy knows that...hence why Stacy wants Gwen to stay away. But that doesn't matter to Gwen apparently.

I really don't think that's it. He died trying to help Peter, that's where any accountability or guilt comes into the picture. It was simply that Peter will lead a dangerous life full of enemies and he wants to spare his daughter, the potential danger, worry, and pain that comes with it. The idea that Peter created a Super villain was a bit exaggerated and I doubt Gwen even saw it that way. It was an equation for goodness sakes, that's it. Captain Stacy wasn't aware of that part and I doubt he was thinking Peter would have a hand in creating any other super villains, only the life he's leading will make him a lot of enemies and he doesn't want his daughter to be a part of it.

 

[chaseter]

I didn't mean that Peter will literally have a hand in creating every super villain but that super villains will be created because of him. Crime will come to him like a magnet.

 

[Troy_Parker]

[/SPOILER]

That's from a different battle. Look how much different they look:

Lizard rips his costume on his chest huge and then he goes to see Gwen.

You're kidding me, right? You were saying that the gashes weren't there during the police unmasking scene when they were, that's why I posted those pictures.

They're there in the final battle too.