Infinity War Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER User Review Thread - Part 2

[N'Jobu]

Nope. Movie was about Thanos collecting the stones and then using them to wipe off half the universe. All of that happened in THIS movie. How is the ending a cliffhanger? It would have been one had it cut to black after he snapped his fingers but sorry, I don't think you "probably" understand what that word means better than I do.

Yea I agree. I think people are looking at it from the perspective of having the avengers be the protagonist as they have been in the first two avengers films. But that's not what the directors and writers intended for infinity war. They've reiterated that Thanos is the protagonist and that it is his movie. So if you look at it from that perspective, he's the twisted hero of this story, he accomplishes what he set out to do, and the avengers look to be defeated. The story can end here and it would be fine, although dark, especially since this is all from Thanos' perspective. This is why it shouldn't be considered a cliffhanger.

Although we know there is an avengers 4, and that the avengers will likely try to fight back against Thanos and undo what he did in this film, that shouldn't change what this film was. The only thing that I can think of that supports this film having a cliffhanger is the whole Dr. Strange plan, since we haven't seen the supposed fulfillment of that plan. If there even is one.

 

[Iceman]

It works well as a Thanos film.

 

[N'Jobu]

It works well as a Thanos film.

Maybe they should have called it "Thanos: Infinity War", or just "Infinity War" to make it even more obvious that this is his film.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Nope. Movie was about Thanos collecting the stones and then using them to wipe off half the universe. All of that happened in THIS movie. How is the ending a cliffhanger? It would have been one had it cut to black after he snapped his fingers but sorry, I don't think you "probably" understand what that word means better than I do.

I got into this debate with you in another thread, but to sum up why, it's because the arcs established in this film don't resolve themselves. The heroes all have looks of shock and such, but Tony's arc doesn't end, Thor's doesn't end, Banner's, etc. Really only Thanos's arc does. Therefore it doesn't feel like a complete movie. This movie has a similar ending to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1. The only difference is one is plainly labled Part 1 and the other isn't, but the dynamic is the same.

 

[honestbharani]

I got into this debate with you in another thread, but to sum up why, it's because the arcs established in this film don't resolve themselves. The heroes all have looks of shock and such, but Tony's arc doesn't end, Thor's doesn't end, Banner's, etc. Really only Thanos's arc does. Therefore it doesn't feel like a complete movie. This movie has a similar ending to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1. The only difference is one is plainly labled Part 1 and the other isn't, but the dynamic is the same.

Well, we debated this long and hard in the other thread, so I guess we will agree to disagree about the respective character arcs themselves. But, even assuming the arcs did not resolve, that does not equate a cliffhanger. A cliffhanger suggests a situation left unresolved, and that does not happen in this movie. It would have been a cliffhanger if the movie ended when Thanos snapped his fingers, but it did not. It shows the repercussions of that action and the movie ends with the protagonist in peace. How can it be a cliffhanger even if we are to accept that some of the character arcs are yet to be fulfilled?

 

[N'Jobu]

I got into this debate with you in another thread, but to sum up why, it's because the arcs established in this film don't resolve themselves. The heroes all have looks of shock and such, but Tony's arc doesn't end, Thor's doesn't end, Banner's, etc. Really only Thanos's arc does. Therefore it doesn't feel like a complete movie. This movie has a similar ending to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1. The only difference is one is plainly labled Part 1 and the other isn't, but the dynamic is the same.

In what ways do you consider their arcs to have not ended?

 

[honestbharani]

Maybe they should have called it "Thanos: Infinity War", or just "Infinity War" to make it even more obvious that this is his film.

I don't place much emphasis on the title and honestly, even looking at it as an Avengers movie, this is still complete, just that they lose. I just don't see how it can ever be defined as a cliffhanger.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, we debated this long and hard in the other thread, so I guess we will agree to disagree about the respective character arcs themselves. But, even assuming the arcs did not resolve, that does not equate a cliffhanger. A cliffhanger suggests a situation left unresolved, and that does not happen in this movie. It would have been a cliffhanger if the movie ended when Thanos snapped his fingers, but it did not. It shows the repercussions of that action and the movie ends with the protagonist in peace. How can it be a cliffhanger even if we are to accept that some of the character arcs are yet to be fulfilled?

Him simply winning is not a resolution. As noted, in DH1, Voldemort gets the Elder Wand, obtaining the tool he needs to kill Harry Potter in his mind. Here, the film is about stopping Thanos. They lose this battle, but much like DH, the war is not over. The heroes don't really deal with the aftermath. People disappear and it ends. The heroes don't say they're giving up, fighting another day, etc. They just look shocked. In TESB, the movie people claim this is most like, the heroes actually discuss the meaning behind their failure in Cloud City and talk about what tomorrow will bring. THAT'S closure. THAT'S an ending. Yes, they left it open for ROTJ, but they still resolved the arcs and that particular story. This was not closure. This was pure shock, which is the definition of a cliffhanger.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In what ways do you consider their arcs to have not ended?

The heroes failed in their fight against Thanos, what does it MEAN to them? Thor was seeking vengeance for his people and didn't get it, what does that mean to Thor? Tony went into space to stop the threat he saw 6 years ago, what does that mean to him? Cap failed to stop Vision from dying, what does that mean to him? Etc. These questions are not answered. They just sit there in shock. Shock is not a resolution. Are they fighting another day? Giving up? Etc. These are lingering questions. Hence no closure. Hence arc incomplete.

 

[N'Jobu]

The heroes failed in their fight against Thanos, what does it MEAN to them? Thor was seeking vengeance for his people and didn't get it, what does that mean to Thor? Tony went into space to stop the threat he saw 6 years ago, what does that mean to him? Cap failed to stop Vision from dying, what does that mean to him? Etc. These questions are not answered. They just sit there in shock. Shock is not a resolution. Are they fighting another day? Giving up? Etc. These are lingering questions. Hence no closure. Hence arc incomplete.

From my perspective, they are devastated and defeated. To me that's what they feel in the end. I'm not sure most of the avengers are aware that they can fight back. I'm not even sure they were meant to have full arcs in this film as they are the antagonists who are in the protagonist's way of his goal. At least that's how I think the writers look at it. I just think that without knowledge of a 4th avengers film coming, the film could end here and be fine. Sure it would be devastating and the avengers would be considered secondary characters in this film, but I think it could be viewed as a complete story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

From my perspective, they are devastated and defeated. To me that's what they feel in the end. I'm not sure most of the avengers are aware that they can fight back. I'm not even sure they were meant to have full arcs in this film as they are the antagonists who are in the protagonist's way of his goal. At least that's how I think the writers look at it. I just think that without knowledge of a 4th avengers film coming, the film could end here and be fine. Sure it would be devastating and the avengers would be considered secondary characters in this film, but I think it could be viewed as a complete story.

They are devestated, yes. But, what does that MEAN! Is their resolve broken? Is their resolve stronger? Are the Avengers no more? Do they plan to find Thanos and undo things? Etc. I can go up and down the line and ask the deeper meaning of the ending of the characters as well. For example: "Hulk we got a lot to figure out buddy." Okay, what do you need to figure out and how will you go about it? Answer: Tune in next time! Same for all the heroes. Yes they're devestated, but what that means from a character perspective is not explored. The questions linger. Therefore, they're not resolved.

 

[N'Jobu]

They are devestated, yes. But, what does that MEAN! Is their resolve broken? Is their resolve stronger? Are the Avengers no more? Do they plan to find Thanos and undo things? Etc. I can go up and down the line and ask the deeper meaning of the ending of the characters as well. For example: "Hulk we got a lot to figure out buddy." Okay, what do you need to figure out and how will you go about it? Answer: Tune in next time! Same for all the heroes. Yes they're devestated, but what that means from a character perspective is not explored. The questions linger. Therefore, they're not resolved.

I'm not sure if those questions are ones that needed to be answered in this film. You probably need to add on another 15-20 minutes to give more understanding into what the avengers are thinking once they're defeated. All those things would have nothing to do with the actual plot and purpose of this story, imo of course. I think that because its the avengers we're talking about, we want to know more and have more importance placed on their arcs. That's understandable, but for me it works.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not sure if those questions are ones that needed to be answered in this film. You probably need to add on another 15-20 minutes to give more understanding into what the avengers are thinking once they're defeated. All those things would have nothing to do with the actual plot and purpose of this story, imo of course. I think that because its the avengers we're talking about, we want to know more and have more importance placed on their arcs. That's understandable, but for me it works.

I am not saying ending on a cliffhanger is a problem for this movie. It is Part 1 of a 2 part movie. I am just saying the movie doesn't stand as a single entry. The film introduces the ideas mentioned in my post without offering resolution to them, and since these are not resolved, it cannot be considered a complete movie. It would at least have needed to offer some form of resolution to these threads, but instead it allows them to linger. If it is an idea presented in the movie, then it has to resolve itself it is to be considered a complete film. But it doesn't do that. Which again, makes sense. It is a Part 1.

 

[spider-neil]

I am not saying ending on a cliffhanger is a problem for this movie. It is Part 1 of a 2 part movie. I am just saying the movie doesn't stand as a single entry. The film introduces the ideas mentioned in my post without offering resolution to them, and since these are not resolved, it cannot be considered a complete movie. It would at least have needed to offer some form of resolution to these threads, but instead it allows them to linger. If it is an idea presented in the movie, then it has to resolve itself it is to be considered a complete film. But it doesn't do that. Which again, makes sense. It is a Part 1.

If you treat Thanos as the protagonist (and he has the most screen time) the movie has a beginning. middle and end. The movie even ends with 'Thanos will return'.

 

[N'Jobu]

I am not saying ending on a cliffhanger is a problem for this movie. It is Part 1 of a 2 part movie. I am just saying the movie doesn't stand as a single entry. The film introduces the ideas mentioned in my post without offering resolution to them, and since these are not resolved, it cannot be considered a complete movie. It would at least have needed to offer some form of resolution to these threads, but instead it allows them to linger. If it is an idea presented in the movie, then it has to resolve itself it is to be considered a complete film. But it doesn't do that. Which again, makes sense. It is a Part 1.

I get what you're saying. The thing is, I look at what stops this from being a complete film for you as something that's more a result of this being how the MCU works rather than just this film on its own. I may be wrong. Just my perspective.

 

[Spider-Fan]

If you treat Thanos as the protagonist (and he has the most screen time) the movie has a beginning. middle and end. The movie even ends with 'Thanos will return'.

No it doesn't because the remaining arcs still do not end. Only 1 does. For something to be a complete film, it has to come together in a way that satisfies all arcs. IW even if I do what you're saying fails to do this. You can leave things open for sequels, yes. But you cannot start arcs that have no resolution and call it complete.

I get what you're saying. The thing is, I look at what stops this from being a complete film for you as something that's more a result of this being how the MCU works rather than just this film on its own. I may be wrong. Just my perspective.

I am a filmmaker myself, so I look at things from a narrative standpoint, but even in the MCU, their films mostly stand on their own. Arcs begin and end within their respective films. In this, that doesn't happen. That is the difference.

 

[N'Jobu]

No it doesn't because the remaining arcs still do not end. Only 1 does. For something to be a complete film, it has to come together in a way that satisfies all arcs. IW even if I do what you're saying fails to do this. You can leave things open for sequels, yes. But you cannot start arcs that have no resolution and call it complete.



I am a filmmaker myself, so I look at things from a narrative standpoint, but even in the MCU, their films mostly stand on their own. Arcs begin and end within their respective films. In this, that doesn't happen. That is the difference.

If you're talking about the protagonist or primary characters, then yea I agree with you. But not all arcs are completed in each film. Some continue on and are meant to be explored in future films. But idk, I guess we just disagree on that point.

Do you write also? How is that going?

 

[Spider-Fan]

If you're talking about the protagonist or primary characters, then yea I agree with you. But not all arcs are completed in each film. Some continue on and are meant to be explored in future films. But idk, I guess we just disagree on that point.

Do you write also? How is that going?

Screenwriting is actually one of my favorite things to do. I also like to do rewrites, as well. Granted I am no Hollywood big shot or anything, but I know my stuff, LOL!

As for the topic of arcs, it's not that arcs are left open so much as they evolve movie to movie. The arcs introduced in the movies get satisfactory conclusions. Tony goes from wildly irresponsible to making ammends for past actions in IM1, Cap in TWS starts not really knowing why he is fighting anymore to finding his place in the modern world, etc. While these ideas continue to develop, the core struggles introduced in those movies get resolution. Here, they sort of just pause. That is where they're different.

 

[N'Jobu]

Screenwriting is actually one of my favorite things to do. I also like to do rewrites, as well. Granted I am no Hollywood big shot or anything, but I know my stuff, LOL!

As for the topic of arcs, it's not that arcs are left open so much as they evolve movie to movie. The arcs introduced in the movies get satisfactory conclusions. Tony goes from wildly irresponsible to making ammends for past actions in IM1, Cap in TWS starts not really knowing why he is fighting anymore to finding his place in the modern world, etc. While these ideas continue to develop, the core struggles introduced in those movies get resolution. Here, they sort of just pause. That is where they're different.

Nice! I'm sort of in the beginning stages of learning. Its a challenge so far, but still exciting.

I see where you're coming from. There is a difference. It will definitely feel more complete when avengers 4 releases, but for the moment I'm satisfied.

 

[Iceman]

Maybe they should have called it "Thanos: Infinity War", or just "Infinity War" to make it even more obvious that this is his film.

It's an MCU event film really, and features the Guardians heavily and many unofficial Avengers in big roles like Strange and Spidey (who becomes one during the film), and BP. The Avengers brand name is too big to miss out for marketing purposes but otherwise I think it could have been called something like just Infinity War. In a similar way Civil War could have been a MCU event film rather than specifically being labelled a Cap film.

 

[Flemm]

The Guardians/Avengers team-up was certainly a big hook for this movie.

It's one reason why the Cap/Black Panther/Wakanda group doesn't have as much character material: there are no Guardians on earth until Thor finally shows up with Rocket and Groot. A lot of the best character scenes have to do with Thor and the Guardians, then Tony, Spidey and Strange + The Guardians.

A4 seems likely to focus more on the core Avengers group. It's the big send-off and finale for them, and probably a torch-passing to characters like Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man.

 

[honestbharani]

Him simply winning is not a resolution. As noted, in DH1, Voldemort gets the Elder Wand, obtaining the tool he needs to kill Harry Potter in his mind. Here, the film is about stopping Thanos. They lose this battle, but much like DH, the war is not over. The heroes don't really deal with the aftermath. People disappear and it ends. The heroes don't say they're giving up, fighting another day, etc. They just look shocked. In TESB, the movie people claim this is most like, the heroes actually discuss the meaning behind their failure in Cloud City and talk about what tomorrow will bring. THAT'S closure. THAT'S an ending. Yes, they left it open for ROTJ, but they still resolved the arcs and that particular story. This was not closure. This was pure shock, which is the definition of a cliffhanger.

Again, you are confusing resolution with conclusion. Those two need not be one and the same all the time. And a cliffhanger by definition means there is suspense and a bit of a "will he, won't he" to the end, which was not the case in Infinity War. Sure, your knowledge of the franchise and BTS stuff helps you understand that there will be a continuation but to me, it was the same with the first 2 Avengers movies too. IW concludes the story it told during the movie. While there is space to continue the narrative, as with any other franchise movie, it still functions as an end to the story that was being told in the movie and that, by itself, shows the ending was no cliffhanger.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Again, you are confusing resolution with conclusion. Those two need not be one and the same all the time. And a cliffhanger by definition means there is suspense and a bit of a "will he, won't he" to the end, which was not the case in Infinity War. Sure, your knowledge of the franchise and BTS stuff helps you understand that there will be a continuation but to me, it was the same with the first 2 Avengers movies too. IW concludes the story it told during the movie. While there is space to continue the narrative, as with any other franchise movie, it still functions as an end to the story that was being told in the movie and that, by itself, shows the ending was no cliffhanger.

How is there not this at the end? OMG HALF OF MARVEL DIED! Will they comeback? Will the Avengers fight back? This film could easily have said "Tune in next time. Same bat time, SAME BAT CHANNEL!!!" This my friend is a cliffhanger. For it to be a cliffhanger, it doesn't have to be finger nap and immediately roll credits. It's still a cliffhanger.

 

[djsunyc]

How is there not this at the end? OMG HALF OF MARVEL DIED! Will they comeback? Will the Avengers fight back? This film could easily have said "Tune in next time. Same bat time, SAME BAT CHANNEL!!!" This my friend is a cliffhanger. For it to be a cliffhanger, it doesn't have to be finger nap and immediately roll credits. It's still a cliffhanger.

if you had no idea there were future movies coming, would you call this a cliffhanger?

 

[Spider-Fan]

if you had no idea there were future movies coming, would you call this a cliffhanger?

Absolutely 100% yes, without a shadow of a doubt. If I had no idea this had a second part, I would assume a sequel was being made that was going to directly continue this story.