Batman: Arkham Origins - Part 5

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I give a ****. It doesn't matter that it's a story about a whiny orphan in bat pajamas fighting a clown. In this case the particulars of the story are not important. It's a matter of taking the art of storytelling seriously in and of itself. Characters "dying" instead of dying is only one of the problems (and not even the biggest one) modern comics have in regards to their capability to do good storytelling.

I think one part of your post isn't quite sure what the other is doing.

Exactly, it goes hand in hand with the boxed in nature of comics in the first place. The time has come that the serial nature of comics and continuity that characters are beholden to is done away with. Games like the Arkham series should be the example of what to do for characters in the future.

Uh, if anything, serialized storytelling is making a huge comeback in modern art? Besides, there is room for both anyway. There always has been, and nothing has happened to change that, and there probably never will be.

 

[Rincewind]

Exactly, it goes hand in hand with the boxed in nature of comics in the first place. The time has come that the serial nature of comics and continuity that characters are beholden to is done away with. Games like the Arkham series should be the example of what to do for characters in the future.

Yes, to me the biggest problem is that comics in the serial form don't really tell you a story, a single, cohesive story with a clear beginning, middle and end. The serial form itself leads to a very murky situation in which we have monstrously bloated continuities, often conflicting character developments, "deaths" and an endless stream of events and happenings that have no beginning, no middle and no end - there will always be another issue next week and that cheapens the overall experience for me. That's why I prefer stand-alone graphic novels or limited series.

One of the things that are good about the Arkham games is that they are taking a world we're familiar with, get rid of the continuity baggage (while keeping only the essential things that are more connected with the personalities of the characters) and offer fresh storylines that may be influenced or paying homage to certain aspects of the comics but are ultimately stand-alone, have an actual story structure and are self-sufficient. It's more or less the same thing as the films based on comics.

ETA:

I think one part of your post isn't quite sure what the other is doing.

What is unclear to you? Maybe I have not explained it well.

 

[Tron Bonne]

You're making excuses due to the medium, saying that just because it's comics means we shouldn't care that this stuff happens all the time, bad story telling is bad story telling no matter what medium it is. We shouldn't have to just accept it, we should demand better.

Oh, I missed this post. That isn't what I was saying at all. I'm saying...well, I think it's pretty self-exploratory what I'm saying. Different types of stories can have different types of rules for storytelling. For example, something that would happen in a science ficiton story may not be in place in a gritty crime story. It wasn't about medium, more about genre. And even then, making rules is still subjective. You can pull of anything in any genre, if you're good.

So, with that thought in mind, you can even individualize it to the rules that stories set.

 

[samsnee]

Has anyone played the multiplayer yet? Is it any good?

 

[Tron Bonne]

What is unclear to you? Maybe I have not explained it well.

It's not so much that I'm unclear about what you want, but I was pointing out the paradox that seems to plague a lot of modern comic fans: The want to have something treated seriously amongst unserious elements.

 

[jmc]

Yes, to me the biggest problem is that comics in the serial form don't really tell you a story, a single, cohesive story with a clear beginning, middle and end. The serial form itself leads to a very murky situation in which we have monstrously bloated continuities, often conflicting character developments, "deaths" and an endless stream of events and happenings that have no beginning, no middle and no end - there will always be another issue next week and that cheapens the overall experience for me. That's why I prefer stand-alone graphic novels or limited series.

One of the things that are good about the Arkham games is that they are taking a world we're familiar with, get rid of the continuity baggage (while keeping only the essential things that are more connected with the personalities of the characters) and offer fresh storylines that may be influenced or paying homage to certain aspects of the comics but are ultimately stand-alone, have an actual story structure and are self-sufficient. It's more or less the same thing as the films based on comics.

If someone was to ask me where's a good place to start getting into comics I would honestly suggest any of the Arkham games over anything in the comics, because I would have no idea what direction to point to as a good starting place in comics due to how convoluted some of them are. I tend to be a year behind my comic reading than everyone else because I like buying the graphic novels to get the feel that I'm reading a proper story with a beginning, middle and end. Problem is even these graphic novels are littered with references to other happenings outside in the greater DC universe, and in some cases require you to buy additional graphic novels to fulling understand what's happening. Honestly, I would like to see other characters be given a game like Arkham, I think Wonder Woman would be the perfect character as a video game protagonist, her back story is difficult to translate on film but would be perfect for console gaming where you could have an open world story on her home island and in America, even Flash would be great especially since he's got the best rogues gallery outside of Batman. I would really like to see the DC universe expanded in gaming, but like Arkham kept in a separate continuity.

 

[AnneFan]

Has anyone played the multiplayer yet? Is it any good?

I haven't played it yet, and probably won't for a while. I'm going to get everything in the main story done first, challenges, etc.

As for bringing Joker back in the next game: I would be up for it. Though not *the* Joker, a clone from Cadmus Labs with the real one having been cremated. Harley not being able to move on, has some DNA tissue and goes from there. Like Return of the Joker. The character is back, but it's not truly him.

 

[Rincewind]

It's not so much that I'm unclear about what you want, but I was pointing out the paradox that seems to plague a lot of modern comic fans: The want to have something treated seriously amongst unserious elements.

Ah, I see. I think you're not getting my point, though, and to make it clearer I'll quote another post of yours:

Different types of stories can have different types of rules for storytelling. For example, something that would happen in a science fiction story may not be in place in a gritty crime story.

See, there are not different types of storytelling. Storytelling, in and of itself, is not connected with the genre or the tone of the story that's being told. The very base of storytelling is the same in a science fiction story and in a romantic comedy story. The characters may be different, the plot details may be different, the worlds in which the stories happen will certainly be different and so on.
But the basic thing is that you always have characters going through certain events that result in certain story dynamics; you always have a series of events that have a clear beginning, middle and end points that are connected through the overall story. That's storytelling. Everything beyond that are the particulars of the story that is being told. And storytelling has its rules, mostly related to the pace of the story and the character development (because that's the ultimate purpose of every story, to make its characters change and evolve through their experiences during the series of events we usually call "plot").

So it's not a matter of whether the story itself is serious or not. But the art of telling that story should be taken seriously. Because when it's not, that's usually when "bad" stories happen.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ah, I see. I think you're not getting my point, though, and to make it clearer I'll quote another post of yours:


See, there are not different types of storytelling. Storytelling, in and of itself, is not connected with the genre or the tone of the story that's being told. The very base of storytelling is the same in a science fiction story and in a romantic comedy story. The characters may be different, the plot details may be different, the worlds in which the stories happen will certainly be different and so on.
But the basic thing is that you always have characters going through certain events that result in certain story dynamics; you always have a series of events that have a clear beginning, middle and end points that are connected through the overall story. That's storytelling. Everything beyond that are the particulars of the story that is being told. And storytelling has its rules, mostly related to the pace of the story and the character development (because that's the ultimate purpose of every story, to make its characters change and evolve through their experiences during the series of events we usually call "plot").

So it's not a matter of whether the story itself is serious or not. But the art of telling that story should be taken seriously. Because when it's not, that's usually when "bad" stories happen.

You're right, I didn't understand that was your point (though that's definitely part of what you were saying originally), but I didn't know you were just playing that same horn that jmc was that there's only one way to tell stories and to ignore the type of stories being told and the intent behind them. I mean yes, there are certain universal things that are considered "right", but even those you won't find written on tablets from God.

But I'm dropping out of this argument. I can see that you guys are really just down on the nature of comics, and I'm sensing that behind this all is just kind of a ******* of the Arkham games anyway, though they already contain what's being criticized here.

As for bring Joker back in the next game: I would be up for it. Though not *the* Joker, a clone from Cadmus Labs with the real one having been cremated. Harley not being able to move on, has some DNA tissue from and goes from there. Like Return of the Joker. The character is back, but it's not truly him.

I actually wouldn't mind that per say, but not as the main quest. Probably more of a side quest thing. For the next Arkham game, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the newer villains introduced in recent years.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Has anyone played the multiplayer yet? Is it any good?

I started a lobby yesterday and only one other player joined in the span of 10 minutes.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I'm most likely getting this on the Wii U, so I won't even have the multi component. The only multiplayer thing I'd want from these games are local co-op so I can go all Batman & Robin on thugs.

 

[AnneFan]

I actually wouldn't mind that per say, but not as the main quest. Probably more of a side quest thing. For the next Arkham game, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the newer villains introduced in recent years.

The Hush side mission and the Azrael plotline really piqued my interest in AC. I hope they explore these things.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Iv created a back up save on a flash drive and am gonna attempt to play this some more haha. I just can't stay away waiting for WB to fix the damn game. Hopefully i won't run into any issues, but if i do, I'm ready.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Has anyone played the multiplayer yet? Is it any good?

I started a lobby yesterday and only one other player joined in the span of 10 minutes.

 

[zenith16]

They should just take what they have from the multiplayer and create a optional separate but similar story online co-op mode similar to the main campaign that people can choose to play if they feel like. If they can make that work in the 3d space like Arkham that is. The main campaign will still always be itself .


I was thinking about local but some how ... With the other person always has to be connected to you for you to move forward to a certain section. And seeing how the recent ninja turtles game went. Until it's a bit more refined...

It looks like they made those elements already with just having Batman and Robin there. Just do it like its done in the splinter cell games and a number of others double dragon style and it should be fine.

A lot of people don't seem to be digging the multiplayer so far . So it's either they didn't have enough different styled varied multiplayer modes or cause of the way that this one mode was set up it just wasn't that fun and as usual it wasn't needed.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I am at the point right after you beat copperhead and I have completed the Anarky, Penguin, Mad Hatter, side missions so far. Still have to finish the Riddler, Shiva, and Black Mask side missions, as well as the other two side mission villains I haven't unlocked yet. I am liking the game but its not quite as good as Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. I know most people and critics complain that it's to similar to previous games and doesn't do anything new to move the series forward. But for me, I wasn't expecting this to be a major overhaul of the series as Rocksteady is all but confirmed as working on a sequel to Arkham City.

The expanded map from Arkham City with new areas, new story, side missions, new bosses, and a new detective mode/ crime scene feature, and multiplayer (which is meh) are all good enough for me to keep the game fresh. I am fine with the if it ain't broke, don't fix it method to the combat system, it still feels fun and fluid. My only real complaint is the technical issues such as framerate drops. Now I am on a new super slim ps3 and have only encountered two instances where the game's framerate dropped on me, in the 6-7 hours I been playing the rest of the time has been smooth. But others on both ps3 and 360 have reported framerate and freezing issues, so I hope WB Montreal releases a patch to fix these issues ASAP.

Even though I haven't finished the game yet, I would give the game a 8/10.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Ugh! I was doing Worst Nightmare rank 6 and I did all the required take downs correctly except one! Dam it!

 

[The Shape]

My desires for the next Arkham game:

- A story that spans several days or weeks, and is not stuck in one eternal night. I want to see different weather conditions, different levels of sunlight (or lack thereof). They need to emulate the GTA games a bit in this aspect, and figure out how to incorporate a larger spanning story. I know this is difficult since they don't have the amount of time Rockstar had to work on this, but the Origins/City model can be expanded and improved.

- More free roam capability. Batmobile driving, Batwing flying, controlled by the user and not only for one or two missions.

- A populated city that isn't shut down or isolated, which would be a welcome change of pace for the next game.

- The ability to select one of at least three different Batman skins when you start story mode and during it. It's lame to have to start the entire story over to use a skin variant in-game.

 

[The Shape]

I actually wouldn't mind that per say, but not as the main quest. Probably more of a side quest thing. For the next Arkham game, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the newer villains introduced in recent years.

A main storyline based on the Court of Owls could definitely work in the next game, and goes hand in hand with the mystery/investigation aspect of the games...with more well-known villains populating the overall game as well.

 

[BrollySupersj]

My desires for the next Arkham game:

- A story that spans several days or weeks, and is not stuck in one eternal night. I want to see different weather conditions, different levels of sunlight (or lack thereof). They need to emulate the GTA games a bit in this aspect, and figure out how to incorporate a larger spanning story. I know this is difficult since they don't have the amount of time Rockstar had to work on this, but the Origins/City model can be expanded and improved.

- More free roam capability. Batmobile driving, Batwing flying, controlled by the user and not only for one or two missions.

- A populated city that isn't shut down or isolated, which would be a welcome change of pace for the next game.

- The ability to select one of at least three different Batman skins when you start story mode and during it. It's lame to have to start the entire story over to use a skin variant in-game.

I have faith some of those desires will come to fruition with the next game. Definitely a bigger Gotham for sure.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Finished this tonight. I enjoyed it but IMO it's probably the weakest of the series. Highlights for me:

Spoiler

Loved everything about Bane's portrayal including his transformation. Great stuff.

Loved Alfred/Bruce's dynamic. Fantastic.

Joker's origin with Harley was very cool.

The boss fights were mostly spectacular.

What I didn't like:

Spoiler

I felt the story pacing was kind of uneven and kinda lacked real focus.

The combat system isn't as good as previous games. It looks the exact same, but it doesn't function the exact same. Counters don't always work and some moves are borderline broken (stun/slam).

Underpopulated city, though admittedly it gets more full as the story goes on.

Freeeeeeeezes/glitches. Not as seamless as the other games.

That's all off the top of my head. I'm betting I'll like it even more the second time through, though.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Oh, also:

Spoiler

Deathstroke was criminally underused.

 

[jmc]

So I've just finished story mode, have a crap load of side missions I've still got to complete however. Overall, I've got to say the story in this game is very impressive and is without doubt one of my favourite Batman stories, I might even say I think it's a better story than Arkham City which makes up for the game play being a bit too familiar and easy to master, as well as the lack of fully incorporating the city more. I feel as if a lot of the city has been wasted in this game, impressive to look at no doubt and awesome to just wander through, but ultimately underutilised to its full potential within the story.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Oh, also:

Spoiler

Deathstroke was criminally underused.

A-****ING-MEN.

He could have carried the whole game as a villain IMO.

 

[Mr.?]

My desires for the next Arkham game:

- A story that spans several days or weeks, and is not stuck in one eternal night. I want to see different weather conditions, different levels of sunlight (or lack thereof). They need to emulate the GTA games a bit in this aspect, and figure out how to incorporate a larger spanning story. I know this is difficult since they don't have the amount of time Rockstar had to work on this, but the Origins/City model can be expanded and improved.

- More free roam capability. Batmobile driving, Batwing flying, controlled by the user and not only for one or two missions.

- A populated city that isn't shut down or isolated, which would be a welcome change of pace for the next game.

- The ability to select one of at least three different Batman skins when you start story mode and during it. It's lame to have to start the entire story over to use a skin variant in-game.

This but I also want a new graphic style/art direction.