Batman: Arkham Origins - Part 6

[Balthus Dire]

I couldn't agree more. This is the only game in the trilogy with an engaging story imo, and characters that feel credible. I knew Alfred wasn't going to die, and yet I was moved by the scene in the batcave for instance. and they managed to use Arkham Bane, and made it a tragic figure, instead of a dumb giant.

See, I think there's a difference between an engaging story and engaging characters/scenes. I think Origins wins in the characterization department hands down. The Alfred/Bruce relationship was great, the Joker/Harley scene was great, and Bane/Joker's finale trying to get Batman to break his rule (and the theme of Batman's rule) was also handled very well.

That being said, there wasn't much motivation to the story to me. All the characters were just kind of...there. Other than the Bane/Batcave scene (that we've already established was anti climactic) the story just kind of limps along with no real motivation for Batman other than "stop the bad guys."

In City, though the main story points are a bit weak, I felt like each villain and side quest had it's own motivation and solid story (with the exception of Hush and Hatter). They felt more organic to me than the quests in Origins. More engaging. Also, I felt Batman's arc as a character was much more interesting in City.

Both games have their flaws and everyone's opinion will differ, but even though the characters and personal moments were strongest in Origins, I still feel like it had the weakest overall story.

 

[Rincewind]

I'm not actually sure that the final at Blackgate was anti-climatic. I mean, yeah, I get why people would think so, but to me it was what the whole story was leading to. Bane was not trying simply to defeat Bruce, he wanted to destroy him. That's why he went after Alfred first and tried to kill him - in order to put Batman into a state of despair before goading him to what Bane confidently thought was going to be his final demise. He was methodically trying to dismantle everything in his life, from taking away his only friend to forcing him to make a sadistic choice. In Bane's mind, Bruce was going to die at Blackgate utterly alone and with crushed ideals. That's why he warned him that he "got off easy" after their fight in the hotel, even though at the time the battle seemed everything but easy. He didn't want simply to kill him, he wanted to kill everything he represented.

I think what Balthus Dire says about the difference between an engaging story and engaging characterization is true, but to me the story in Origins is entirely character-driven and is a study on how the characters we came to know in the first two games became what they became. So the plot is of secondary importance anyway. And even so, I believe that it's solid and logical in and of itself. But this is an origin story, after all.

 

[Destructus86]

The Blackgate fights actually gave me a hand cramp...

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I'm not actually sure that the final at Blackgate was anti-climatic. I mean, yeah, I get why people would think so, but to me it was what the whole story was leading to. Bane was not trying simply to defeat Bruce, he wanted to destroy him. That's why he went after Alfred first and tried to kill him - in order to put Batman into a state of despair before goading him to what Bane confidently thought was going to be his final demise. He was methodically trying to dismantle everything in his life, from taking away his only friend to forcing him to make a sadistic choice. In Bane's mind, Bruce was going to die at Blackgate utterly alone and with crushed ideals. That's why he warned him that he "got off easy" after their fight in the hotel, even though at the time the battle seemed everything but easy. He didn't want simply to kill him, he wanted to kill everything he represented.

I think I'd go with this except that the climax is about Batman and Joker's relationship again rather than the feud between him and Bane. He gets relegated really badly to second fiddle once Joker's running the "madhouse" again imo. As I mentioned it is a complete repeat of two major themes - Batman won't kill and Gordon is beginning to trust Batman both of which I think were hammered home more effectively in earlier bits.

As far as the stage itself I was actually taken out out of the moment hard when it turned into proto-Arkham Asylum. I mean if it was Bane on the PA system taunting you and Joker was simply in the mix that'd be something as well.


As far as Origins vs City on the story department. I think Balthus is right in that City had better mini-arcs. I think some of the assassins had good bits but as a whole I never felt like I was being HUNTED and that was a bit of a downer.

What DID work in Origins and worked splendidly was the hotel sequence and everything about it and from a gameplay and narrative perspective its one of the best stages in the entire series. I also really liked the Bridge quite a bit for how it provided an organic basis for future cooperation between Batman and Gordon. Aside from that Bruce and Alfred was another big one.

So I would say that yes Origins had the best story out of the three but I don't think it was THAT much better and its got plenty of flaws on its own.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I'm not actually sure that the final at Blackgate was anti-climatic. I mean, yeah, I get why people would think so, but to me it was what the whole story was leading to. Bane was not trying simply to defeat Bruce, he wanted to destroy him. That's why he went after Alfred first and tried to kill him - in order to put Batman into a state of despair before goading him to what Bane confidently thought was going to be his final demise. He was methodically trying to dismantle everything in his life, from taking away his only friend to forcing him to make a sadistic choice. In Bane's mind, Bruce was going to die at Blackgate utterly alone and with crushed ideals. That's why he warned him that he "got off easy" after their fight in the hotel, even though at the time the battle seemed everything but easy. He didn't want simply to kill him, he wanted to kill everything he represented.

I think what Balthus Dire says about the difference between an engaging story and engaging characterization is true, but to me the story in Origins is entirely character-driven and is a study on how the characters we came to know in the first two games became what they became. So the plot is of secondary importance anyway. And even so, I believe that it's solid and logical in and of itself. But this is an origin story, after all.

That's an interesting perspective and one I will definitely keep in mind during my second playthrough.

In all honesty, I would've much preferred they left Joker out of this game entirely and just made Bane the villain. His story could've been much more interesting and most people seem to agree that he was the most engaging part of the game. As Spideyfan said, Bane noticeably takes a back seat in Act 3 just for the sake of giving Joker more face time, which hurt the story IMO.

 

[Rincewind]

Specifically about the Joker... I don't disagree that if he was left out, the game wouldn't have suffered. I think that the overall story had a potential to be engaging without him, and, yes, even more attention to Bane would have been nice (more on that below). But at the same time, the bits with the complicated relationship between Batman and the Joker were among the best in the game as far as character interaction goes. To me, the game totally got it so right in the way they acted towards each other. The Joker was written very well and that's why I can't say with certainty - yes, it would have been better without him or no, he had to be there. I'm on the middle here - it could have been just as good without him, but I'm not sorry that he was involved. Though he's very much overused in these series now and I strongly think that they should absolutely not include him in the next game, when it inevitably comes.

As to Bane, to me he was as important as the Joker and was clearly the greater danger to Batman of the two. I felt it was highlighted well in the hotel scenes, when he was not impressed at all by the clownish bravado and when later he unceremoniously shot him with a bazooka. Bane definitely didn't act like a second fiddle, to me he just seemed like he had his own agenda and the Joker was simply not worth his time and attention. The fact he was using his craziness and willingness to die just in order to goad Batman into fighting him at Blackgate to me points that he was the one making the decisions there and Joker was simply enjoying the ride. Also, he didn't reveal Batman's identity to the Joker which to me implies that in Bane's mind the "payaso" was utterly expendable and was probably going to die anyway, regardless of wether the fight took long enough for the electric chair to activate or if Bane was victorious.
It's just that the Batman vs Joker thing is considered more iconic and important, and it's more or less obligatory to be the high point. Much like in... TDK, for example, where Two-Face actually was more important for Batman's life and Gotham's future at the end, but the final fight with the Joker is much more climatic. It's just the nature of the character - the Joker alwyas steals the spotlight :P

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I definitely think Joker's hotel sequence helped make this game so I would have kept him largely as is but he should have been out of the story after being caught and the flashback sequence.

 

[TheVileOne]

Damn, so disappointed. I finally beat New Game+ but I couldn't get past rank 14 on worst nightmare. That's eliminating 3 guys with one propane tank. The last part I could do that were the bridge predator rooms, and I just couldn't get the setup down. The thugs just kept moving me around or finding my perch and opening fire.

 

[Mike_D202]

My game stopped loading today. I put the disc is and it's a black screen. wtf.

 

[v.waltzer]

Damn, so disappointed. I finally beat New Game+ but I couldn't get past rank 14 on worst nightmare. That's eliminating 3 guys with one propane tank. The last part I could do that were the bridge predator rooms, and I just couldn't get the setup down. The thugs just kept moving me around or finding my perch and opening fire.

You still have I Am The Night mode in which to complete the Dark Knight challenges.

 

[v.waltzer]

In fact, as tedious and laborious as the process might be, IATN mode may potentially be the answer to all our Dark Knight Challenge woes.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I only just found out what IATN mode actually is and it sounds beyond stupid to me. I have zero desire to complete the game in one sitting, especially on one life.

Should've been one or the other IMO.

 

[v.waltzer]

You don't have to beat it in one sitting. There are save points.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Really? The report I read said no saves and one life. Is that incorrect?

 

[Reek]

My game stopped loading today. I put the disc is and it's a black screen. wtf.

literally happens to me 50% of the time... i have to completely turn off my X-box each time too. the game starts loading... gets stuck on a black screen... wont let me push the X and go back to the home screen.

Ridiculous. Also, my file has corrupted 3.... 3.... 3 TIMES. Each one right before the deathstroke fight.

 

[v.waltzer]

Really? The report I read said no saves and one life. Is that incorrect?

Yep, that's incorrect.

 

[BatMatt]

There are saves in I am the Night, you just can't die or it starts over from the beginning.

 

[The Joker]

There are saves in I am the Night, you just can't die or it starts over from the beginning.

The very start of the game? My god!

 

[Balthus Dire]

There are saves in I am the Night, you just can't die or it starts over from the beginning.

Oh awesome, that's not nearly as bad. I did that same challenge in Dead Space 3 t:

I'm guessing backup saves on USB will work like a charm.

 

[BatMatt]

The trick in I am the Night is if you feel you are just about to die, hit pause, and then reload from last check point. I'm not nearly skilled enough to pull it off even with the trick, but that is the solution

 

[Mike_D202]

literally happens to me 50% of the time... i have to completely turn off my X-box each time too. the game starts loading... gets stuck on a black screen... wont let me push the X and go back to the home screen.

Ridiculous. Also, my file has corrupted 3.... 3.... 3 TIMES. Each one right before the deathstroke fight.

It took me two hours to defeat Deathstroke, he's a pain to fight. I'm thinking to myself "...this guy is the first major fights?! I'm in trouble..."

I disconnected my xbox from the internet, and it starts to load now with no problems. It DID freeze on me for the first time this evening right after I ran into the Mad Hatter's goons (when they sing you a song after the sewers). I hope my save file isn't corrupted. It does kind of suck that we can't use our skins we bought unless we beat the game first.

 

[TheVileOne]

You still have I Am The Night mode in which to complete the Dark Knight challenges.

LOL, yeah which means I only have one life and it takes a while to get to predator rooms to propane tanks

 

[ProjectPat2280]

It took me two hours to defeat Deathstroke, he's a pain to fight. I'm thinking to myself "...this guy is the first major fights?! I'm in trouble...".

Haha yea it took me forever to take him down because i started the game without the attack notifications. I had NO idea you could do all these bad ass counter moves against the guy. I watched a video of the fight and I'm like wtf, how come they get all those attack notifications. Then it dawned on me that i had them off. So next time i start a new game(after IATN), ill go after that cheevo for surviving all the counter prompts.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

In all honesty, I would've much preferred they left Joker out of this game entirely and just made Bane the villain. His story could've been much more interesting and most people seem to agree that he was the most engaging part of the game. As Spideyfan said, Bane noticeably takes a back seat in Act 3 just for the sake of giving Joker more face time, which hurt the story IMO.

After the first Bane encounter i was like, yea, they should really try and work in some of the plot points from Knightfall in the next game. Then they had to go and s**t ALL over that idea by showing us how this awesome Bane came to be that putrid, horrible Bane from the other 2 games. I was praying for a retcon or at least them leaving a large enough gap between Origins and Asylum.

 

[Nathan]

I'm glad that I only needed 3 tries. And I also had all notifications turned off. My biggest brain fart moment was that I didn't realize that I could catch and throw the canisters back. That **** did the most damage.