The Dark Knight Batman is a loner...

[Doc Samson]

Since the first issue of Batman, he and Gordon have had a relationship, so it's absolutely necessary. I never got the impression we would be receiving any kind of lovey-dovey friendship though. From what I saw in BB, it was pretty much how it should be, Batman gets information from Gordon and mid-sentence he floats away and does "his own thing". Meeting on the rooftop is a stable of the character ever since he's had a batsignal, so I'm not sure where the worry is coming from, this will be the movie to beat next year, let's just relax and let the magic happen...

 

[Cosmic]

Batman is not infallible. He can't do everything. Sometimes he needs help. He needed a lot of help in Begins. To me, it doesn't take anything away from the character. If anything, it's one of the aspects of Batman that keeps him interesting. How far can he take his relationships...personal and professional...before he risks revealing his secret identity, or creating other problems for himself? Who can he trust, and who would be willing to trust him?

 

[Saint]

He made Dick Grayson his legal ward.

And later, adopted him.

He fathered a child with Talia Head in alternate continuity

Actually this is now in continuity (see "Batman & Son").

 

[Jacobhiggins]

I actually like how Batman has a little inner circle behind the scenes. It's a cool allusion that he works alone but in reality he is just one man and needs help and gets help.

 

[Anguissette1979]

As others have said, I see Bats and Gordon having a "business" arrangement and nothing more.

 

[Borland]

The ending of Begins wasn't cheesy, so I'd wager future rooftop meetings would be in the same style and not cheesy.

 

[Harley Quinn]

i think Batman thinks and feels of himself as a loner, even though he has allies. his identity puts people in danger, his relationships aren't that healthy, while trying to hide the secret of his alter-ego.

 

[rpenguin]

I like to think sometimes Batman makes out with Jim Gordon... like right after a heated discussion about how Gotham is all kinds of bad and evil and there's no hope... they just grip eachother and french kiss. YEAH.

 

[Bond]

i think Batman thinks and feels of himself as a loner, even though he has allies. his identity puts people in danger, his relationships aren't that healthy, while trying to hide the secret of his alter-ego.

I agree.

 

[Deaths Head II]

Friends don't hold secrets from each other. If Batman and Gordon were friends, Gordon would know Batman's identity.

If I recall correctly, Batman once tried to take off his mask in front of Commissioner Gordon in the comics to reveal his true identity, but Gordon turned away when he did it, not wanting to look but appreciating the gesture or something like that. I would say Gordon and Batman have a unique kind of friendship, but still a friendship. Whenever something big happens with Batman, the level of concern Gordon usually shows elevates something way above "ally" or "business partner". I doubt the times Batman or Gordon show some concern for each other, the thought that runs to their head is "Damn, I wonder how this is gonna cut into our agreement. Better try to loosen up the guy so he doesn't back out." The "Turning Points" book already mentioned does a decent enough job of showing these moments. I think the people that interpret it as a business agreement just like how it sounds in their head and use it to try to keep Batman as much of a loner as possible.

And having friends doesn't really prevent the character from being a loner in spirit. The TAS is a good example. Despite the Bat-Family he built up in the series, in Batman Beyond he still ends up turning most of them away and growing up to be an old secluded man. Batman may have friends at his side, but his loner attitude manages to put that at risk in many ways.

 

[Shot Gun Shy]

Batman : " I dont have the luxury of friends .... "

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

As others have said, I see Bats and Gordon having a "business" arrangement and nothing more.

It's definitely more than that. They're as close as friends can get when one is a cop and the other a masked vigilante. In any version of the mythos. Think about during "Hush", when Jim stops Batman from killing Joker. He does so out of friendship, in not wanting to see Batman fall into the abyss. Think about that wonderful end to the BTAS episode "Holiday Knights" that shows the annual ritual of Jim and Bats actually sharing a cup of coffee.

And since we're speaking particularly about Begins, I think the relationship is even stronger there. He sought out Gordon specifically not only because he was a good cop, but clearly also because of the kindness he showed him as a child. And from Gordon's end, well he seems pretty in awe of Bats. His chiding of him during the speech about escalation was sort of playful; he knew Batman seemed sort of responsible for opening up a big can of worms, but still can't help but love the guy. The smile as Batman flies away says it all. I think we're only gonna see the bond get stronger in the next film.

 

[DACrowe]

Batman has always surrounded himself with people who can help him (like Gordon). And it usually ends in friendship. But a friendship with the Bat can come at a high price as Harvey Dent and likely Rachel Dawes will learn in TDK.

 

[Hush]

There are more than comic references you can pull out to back up a relationship with gordon. In Forever you can tell Bruce has a friendship with Gordon and its blatantly obvious. In HUSH Batman says that he has no doubt that Jim knows the secret of his identity, no one becomes commisioner of police with out knowing what is going on in his city and of course with his daughter. Do you really think Jim is that damn stupid? The man is a friend of Batman and Bruce its as clean cut as that and no more the proof of this is in the hundereds of issues that chronicle Batmans adventures. Bats is also in no way a loner like you describe, so telling your self that is rather naive. Does he work alone some times? Yes. But to be completely honest he has more sidekicks and helpers than can be named and all his contacts as Bruce and Batman roughly equal up the super hero population of the DC Universe. I think naivity(sp?) is at play here and that is all.

 

[Chucktallica101]

Naivety breeds cynicism. Bats and Gordon are peas in a pod. It's like one of those relationships one would have with a co-worker and all you have in common with that person is your job. That's all you talk about...sometimes maybe that's all you have to live for. I kind of like to think of Gordon and Bats in that sense.

 

[Saint]

If I recall correctly, Batman once tried to take off his mask in front of Commissioner Gordon in the comics to reveal his true identity, but Gordon turned away when he did it, not wanting to look but appreciating the gesture or something like that. I would say Gordon and Batman have a unique kind of friendship, but still a friendship. Whenever something big happens with Batman, the level of concern Gordon usually shows elevates something way above "ally" or "business partner". I doubt the times Batman or Gordon show some concern for each other, the thought that runs to their head is "Damn, I wonder how this is gonna cut into our agreement. Better try to loosen up the guy so he doesn't back out." The "Turning Points" book already mentioned does a decent enough job of showing these moments. .

Indeed. Another good example is when Gordon was shot a few years back. Batman went nuclear. I don't like to describe them as "best friends" because that implies a normal, healthy friendship that the two of them don't have. They're not buddies. A more accurate description is that Gordon is Batman's only friend (his other allies being family, not friends). They have a kinship about them, and sometimes it feels almost like they're brothers.

I loved the falling out they had in No Man's Land. It implied there was much more to them than a working relationship, because in such a relationship Gordon would have set aside his problems and worked with Batman to save the city. Instead, he was almost petty about it, refusing Batman's help even when he needed it most. That loss of trust between them really struck me as brotherhood type relationship, and Batman trying to reveal himself to Gordon to rebuild trust is one of my favourite moments.

 

[Robin91939]

And later, adopted him.

Actually this is now in continuity (see "Batman & Son").

I didn't know if that panned out to be his child or not. Because I know that Selina became pregnant and people, Bruce included, thought that the child was his.....I believe it's a baby girl. But it was then said that it wasn't, but Bruce/Batman offered to provide for the child as if it were his own.....again, not something a loner would do.

-R

 

[Saint]

I didn't know if that panned out to be his child or not.

It did. They made a vague reference to the previously out-of-continuity story where Talia and Bruce conceived the child, but retconned it a little (Bruce described it as a eugenics experiment in which he was drugged and forced to participate).

 

[Goodfellas]

Maybe Saint means grammatically... or the fact that you feel Batman is a loner and say that any collaboration between him and other minded folks is cheesy.

haahahha man you superhero hype members sure like to try and start **** ON THE INTERNET




and i laught at any of you who think a scene with those threee up there discussing crime and parterning up wouldnt be cheesy at all




than again you all are probaly the same people who all lined up to go see Ghost Rider


so i guess i expect something like that

 

[Crook]

It did. They made a vague reference to the previously out-of-continuity story where Talia and Bruce conceived the child, but retconned it a little (Bruce described it as a eugenics experiment in which he was drugged and forced to participate).

What the hell.

 

[Gilpesh]

haahahha man you superhero hype members sure like to try and start **** ON THE INTERNET




and i laught at any of you who think a scene with those threee up there discussing crime and parterning up wouldnt be cheesy at all




than again you all are probaly the same people who all lined up to go see Ghost Rider


so i guess i expect something like that

And how would Gordon (policeman), Dent (District Attorney), and Batman (crime fighter) be cheesy? You mean people can't get together when their jobs make them work together?

 

[logansoldcigar]

The fourth chapter of Year One is called "Friend in Need."

And has anyone seen the new Batman: Turning Points TPB? Bats and Gordon are like homeboys, and much of it was written by Ed Brubaker so don't talk.

also implied in year one, in the same chapter, that gordon knows exactly who batman is. after the whole diving off the bridge incident, when he looks at a man who was one of his main suspects for being Batman (although not in a batsuit at that point), and says "you know, I dont see so well without my glasses". hes a cop, and by all accounts a good one. it wouldnt have taken much for him to put 2 & 2 together. lets face it, diving off bridges to save screaming babies isnt a tradional hobby for a Billionaire playboy

as for the scene in TLH, as presented in the comics, yeah, it would be cheesy. BUT Batman does need Gordon and Dent, as much as they need him, because of due process. they make sure that any evidence that Batman gathers remains legal and admissible, they keep the law off his back

 

[Katsuro]

i agree with the OP. plain and simple, batman is a loner. one of the reasons i dont like the comics is he has too much help from too many ppl, inlcuding lucious, oracle/batgirl, robin (take your pick), then nightwing, different police cops from various stories, etc. i like batman when he is self reliant, not haveing all these ppl around him. tis why i like the burton batman more. in begins, there were way too many ppl "helping" him out, the lamest one being morgan "shouldnt be such a" freeman.

What the **** did you just say?!?

Have I somehow stepped several decades back in time, to a time where that's an acceptable thing to say? And if so, why the hell does the internet exist!?!

 

[AndrewGilkison]

one example is that in TLH theres the famous scene were they all get on the rooftop circle up and agree to take down crime


now in a comic book thats cool... but in a movie it would look amazingly cheesy... yeah sure they should all want to take down crime but come we dont need some cheesy get together on a rooftop were th ey put there hands in and say " lets do this together and we can fight crime" it would look ****ing corny as ****

You didn't read TLH, did you?

They didn't agree to take down crime in general. They agreed to take down Carmine Falconi, a specific crime boss that neither of them could take down alone.

And in the story TLH ripped off (Batman Annual #14), Dent and Bats joined forces because while Batman could stop criminals, he couldn't get them convicted because he wasn't a lawyer. But Harvey could.

Oh, and about this "Batman doesn't need Jim Gordon" remark, read Dark Knight Returns and Year One. It's pretty clear Batman's job would be much harder without Gordon allowing him free reign to operate.

Not that it really matters, because a roof top scene with these three couldn't be any more or less corny or cheesy then the entire Batman concept, which is about a man who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime, with his arch nemesis being an evil clown.

Dude, this is still going to be a comic book movie. This isn't going to be a ****ing arthouse film. This isn't going to be a film designed to be oscar bait. This is going to be a summer blockbuster with a superhero as it's leading character. I think we have a right to want to see stuff from the comic book in a film based on the comic book.

Dent, Gordon, and Bats agreeing to work together to stop a massive gang war is NOT nipples on the bat suit. It's not Bat credit cards or Bat ice skates. Its the RIGHT kind of cheese in a comic book movie, while those other examples are the ones that should be avoided.

If you don't see the difference, than you and I clearly can't see eye to eye on this subject.

 

[Saint]

What the hell.

If you're "what the hell" is in reference to the eugenics part, eugenics is the improvement of humanity through selective breeding. If it's about the cohersion through drugging part, haha, what can I say?