Batman reboot: Should it be based on realism, dark imagination, or silliness

[shauner111]

Am I the only one who feels like the Arkham Games are too Schumachery sometimes?

I'm not a fan of goofy clown 'goons', neon, and all that. (And I'm especially not a fan of the character proportions in that game. Everyone looks like a tree trunk).

I'm also especially not a fan of the overdone gothic architecture in the Burton movies.

And no, no 10 year old boys running around with him. Even Schumacher thought that this wasn't fit for the screen, even for a kids movie.

I think when we (myself included) say we want the Arkham style. It has more to do with the tone than the story or the way each character looks.

Robin doesnt have to be 10. He should be like 16. You get a 20 something year old actor for that.

But Schumachery? Nah i dont see that.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The tone of TAS was pitch perfect imo.

As I said, that world was both entertaining and adult at the same time, more than Nolan's films even (often times not so much )

If you stuck Heath's Joker in TAS, it would have been 100% consistent, because Hamill's Joker was a little too goofy compared to the other villains (minus Croc).

Sure there were goofy moments, like the criminals sitting around a table telling stories. But you don't need to include any of that stuff with the film, obviously.

Tone down the fantasy and weirdness of the Arkham games, give it a more plausible reason for existence, and since being real people and not a game, inject real world ethics into it, and there you go.

 

[TheWatcher]

The tone of TAS was pitch perfect imo.

As I said, that world was both entertaining and adult at the same time, more than Nolan's films even (often times not so much )

If you stuck Heath's Joker in TAS, it would have been 100% consistent, because Hamill's Joker was a little too goofy compared to the other villains (minus Croc).

Sure there were goofy moments, like the criminals sitting around a table telling stories. But you don't need to include any of that stuff with the film, obviously.

Tone down the fantasy and weirdness of the Arkham games, give it a more plausible reason for existence, and since being real people and not a game, inject real world ethics into it, and there you go.

Perfect.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Yes you are.

Jokers goons are dressed up as clowns, that seems right.

What neon?

I'm talking about this sort of thing

it just comes across as goofy to me.

I'm not big on the entire rainbow look. I guess that's what I meant by neon. I'm bigger on the style in the comics or the Deco style in TAS.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It was perfect. Goofy moments of course, but very rarely. I don't believe it was for kids, because the stories and writing were mature and complex. Nolan tried too hard to be adult and real with his movies, TAS didn't try at all, it just was.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What's goofy about that image above?

He's one of Joker's goons, so the clown make up fits,. Then you have the amputated arm, the gang tatoos and deadly sledge hammer. Seems like it's mostly very dark and gritty imagery all together.

 

[TheWatcher]

Exactly.

What rainbow thing are you speaking of?

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

i guess it's just a taste thing. That picture reminds me of Robin fighting the glowing gang in Batman Forever.

Whereas I find the clown gang in the beginning of TDK to be awesome. They're not super buff, or with tattoos or anything, but it feels more threatening.

 

[ThDWgeek]

Here's an idea I had that would be a change of pace for Batman films: an anthology of shorter stories that have a slightly different (though not massively clashing) tone, possibly with a ongoing story arc in the background of each segment. For example, a realistic detective story, followed by a horror story, maybe a more sci-fi story, with a "classic" superhero story at the end that would have picked up on background elements mentioned in previous segments. I'm not sure how well it would work, but I think it'd be interesting to look at a reboot from an angle that isn't simply re-doing the origin.

 

[hellblazer103]

Here's an idea I had that would be a change of pace for Batman films: an anthology of shorter stories that have a slightly different (though not massively clashing) tone, possibly with a ongoing story arc in the background of each segment. For example, a realistic detective story, followed by a horror story, maybe a more sci-fi story, with a "classic" superhero story at the end that would have picked up on background elements mentioned in previous segments. I'm not sure how well it would work, but I think it'd be interesting to look at a reboot from an angle that isn't simply re-doing the origin.

i honestly love this idea. makes me think " sin city " a tad bit. plus it'd give room for alot of different villains cause each of them could have their own little " segment " .

 

[Artistsean]

I say bring the Batman character into a more comic book movie world, like the Avengers and Thor and Iron Man have. Allow Batman to go up against characters like the Joker (who was scarred by acid), or Clay Face who was turned into a walking pile of clay, or Killer Croc who is a human crocodile man. Also allow Batman to have an aptitude for almost anything, he is very skilled in the comics and I would like to see him like this in the movies. He has degrees in muderology and muderanomy. He excels in anything he tries. And I'd like to see Batman start to build up his rogues gallery and Bat-Family. I want to see Alfred and Gordon, but also Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Huntress, Question, Catwoman, Red Hood maybe, and so on.
A darker more realistic Batman might eliminate some of this, so I wouldn't make it too gritty. But I would stay away from campy too. Batman to me is not a silly character. He is a dark grim character who lives in a world where a man like Superman is real and so are threats like Man-Bat and Ras al Ghul's Lazarus Pit.
Plus with Batman being more comic book like you have the opportunity to bring in the rest of the Justice League like Superman or Wonder Woman.

The New 52 seems to be revamping their stuff so that it might work better in the movies, one thing they did was revamping Nightwing's origin and showing how its realistic that Batman might bring in a kid into his war on crime. So maybe they can do that.

 

[shauner111]

There's no reason for not doing a detective story then move into a horror story, a sci-fi, etc. You're right ThDWgeek.

The genres changed somewhat with Nolans films. You can change them with the next set too. Dark Knight had the crime drama thing goin, and Rises had the War-Epic feel.

Start off with sci-fi for Justice League but have it more serious and realistic than Avengers but still more outlandish in comparison to Nolans trilogy. Sci-fi but not over-done. Move into the first Batman with a smaller crime (somewhat) detective story but visually showing off the different tone. A story like that inside a fantastical/dark world would be an interesting way to kick things off in a solo movie. Riddler is perfect for that.

In the sequel, expand it a bit and show off the more fantastical elements of Gotham that they didnt have the chance to dive into in the 1st. A horror element but with crimelords. Penguin or Black Mask would be perfect.

Third movie go full on horror, maybe explore Arkham Asylum a bit. Experiments. Take away those crime/mob elements completely but of course retaining the "detective story" premise. It's horror but it's leading into science fiction. Professor Hugo Strange creating a Clayface or Man-Bat or Killer Croc would be perfect.

Fourth film doesn't have to be as horrific. It's still that dark/fantastical city but a winter/sci-fi vibe would be perfect to introduce Mr. Freeze as the sole villain.

Keep the movies going. Always a nice balance between Burtons visual style and Nolans serious writing. But each film can represent different worlds while keeping the tone intact. A gradual evolution.

 

[badgrammar]

Let Adam West make a new batman movie. We need a long break from Nolan, so why dont we make a silly batman moivie before we take it into a serious direction? If not then we should try something different like a Batman beyond movie.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Haha, that was a good one

 

[Skrilla31]

Here's an idea I had that would be a change of pace for Batman films: an anthology of shorter stories that have a slightly different (though not massively clashing) tone, possibly with a ongoing story arc in the background of each segment. For example, a realistic detective story, followed by a horror story, maybe a more sci-fi story, with a "classic" superhero story at the end that would have picked up on background elements mentioned in previous segments. I'm not sure how well it would work, but I think it'd be interesting to look at a reboot from an angle that isn't simply re-doing the origin.

This. ****ing THIS. Quite possibly the best suggestion I've heard on the matter.

My biggest gripe with rebooting the Batman franchise was that I felt the need for a Justice League tie-in would take away from the glory of a stand-alone Batman universe. The last thing I want is a Batman movie and then POOF! The next time you see him, he's in the Justice League. That might be good enough for Wonder Woman and Flash and the other "lesser" members of the Justice League, but the mythologies of Superman and Batman are just too important and too broad to limit them to just one movie. The Justice League should simply act as the next chapter in these heroes respective journeys. Batman's story belongs in Gotham, not Outer Space... and I don't want to see that part of Batman explored until you've accomplished everything there is to accomplish in Gotham first.

Your idea solves that. A collection of short stories that exist within an established universe would be pretty ideal. You get to explore the various sides of Batman, you get to include a multitude of classic villains, and most importantly... it would help illustrate the rich, lush mythology that is Gotham City. And it would all be accomplished in one movie.

Good idea.

 

[Doc Ock]

While I would prefer B overall, I picked both A and B as well. While I'm not a big fan of the ultra-realism presented in the Nolan films, it was successful to audiences and I believe Batman might need some of that to survive in future films but I personally would love the Arkham style or a return to my favorite style of Batman presented in the Burton films/BTAS.

 

[D.P.]

Not really related to casting/tone, but give me more acrobatics/agility in my Batman movies:

From the casting thread.

 

[Vyse]

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind the next Batman movie to stray from the whole "the reboot needs to be an origin-story" deal everyone seems to love so much. I don't really need to watch Bruce become the Batman again, but I would rather watch a movie where he's already established as the Dark Knight, complete with a fleshed out villains gallery and with some experience on his back. With that said, I wouldn't want it to stray too far from the way Nolan's Batman worked either, but I would like to see more of a smart detective-sort of Batman without the end of the world looming at the end of the story. As much as I hated Chris O'Donnell's Robin, I did grow up loving the Robin-character as it was easier to identify myself with a young boy/teenager than the Bat himself, which made me feel more involved in the fantasy reading the comic books. If Hollywood could find a way to introduce Robin into the movie without making it dumb, I wouldn't mind that either.

Anyway, the most important thing imho is to let go of the origin story. New fans don't need to learn how Bruce Wayne became the Batman by watching an hour-long origin. It would do with a flashback of young Bruce bearing witness to his parents' murder, and him waking up to Alfred warning him about the Bat-signal being acivated.

 

[shauner111]

No need to worry, they won't be doing another origin.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

No need to worry, they won't be doing another origin.

Very true. It would be a big mistake for a director to try to compete with Nolan's story, which would be an inevitable comparison of they tried an origin story.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah, who could top Bruce finding gadgets, being hit with sticks and told about ninja stuff? Why even try?

Personally, I think any new Batman movie should have some kind of origin elements to it, but not be a complete origin story.

 

[shauner111]

The way it was handled in 89' or Forever is perfect for the first movie of the reboot, or its sequels.

It's not necessary to devote an entire film on Batman's origin anymore.

I think we all want the same thing. A new Batman series that doesn't come off like a watered-down Nolan film. A series that starts with Batman in his prime and ends with him still active as the Batman (if the sequels end at all). Getting to the villains that Nolan hasn't touched, before repeating things. A style that is more open to extremes but with a tone that is still serious.

It's rather simple. It's just up to Warner Brothers if they want to sell toys instead or try to bank on TDK Trilogy. Which would be incredibly stupid.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm hoping for flashbacks that show how diverse and extensive Bruce's training was.

Just a couple scenes with him as a teenager or a kid diffusing bombs, tracking animals, or being an escape artist under a few of expert mentors.

 

[cleverusername8]

I'd be fine with seeing a bit of science fiction in the new Batman movie series as long as they can at least loosely tie it to science in some way. Exaggerated science iff you will. Hopefully they'll stay away from the supernatural and stay light on the alien stuff. It's fine if Bats fights aliens in JL but in his own movies not so much.

 

[shauner111]

I'd be fine with seeing a bit of science fiction in the new Batman movie series as long as they can at least loosely tie it to science in some way. Exaggerated science iff you will. Hopefully they'll stay away from the supernatural and stay light on the alien stuff. It's fine if Bats fights aliens in JL but in his own movies not so much.

Mr. Freeze, Man-Bat, Killer Croc, Clayface should be enough. You can tie these to science. I won't say Poison Ivy because i would rather a different and more grounded take on her.

I like the idea of eventually going all "fantasy horror/monster movie" with Batman but maybe they should hold off for a few movies. For example, using Killer Croc or Man-Bat may come off as a repeat of The Lizard (Lizard OR Bane depending on which version of Waylon Jones). Unless they're cameos.

Strange & Freeze would be the main guys who are tied to science. With their equipment/experiments.

Like you said save the aliens for JL but go light on it.