Batman & Robin

[Fresh Prince]

Well I like tough, mean lean Gordon.

 

[El Payaso]

God rest his soul,but Pat Hingle as Gordon was essentially useless in these movies. The police were thick as constipation.

Yes. Hence why Batman was needed.

 

[TMC1982]

Because it was too dark/depressing/gothic and there was a backlash over it pushing the limit of the PG-13 rating due to which Warner Bros. fired Tim Burton from his position as director, on the Batman franchise.

Warner Bros. came to the conclusion that Returns didn't make as much money as the 1989 film because it wasn't as mainstream accessable. Therefore, they in return, pinned the blame on Tim Burton for the considerably darker, distribuing, more depressing content than in the first movie. I don't think that Warner Bros. really cared at first about what type of Batman movie Burton was making until they got wind of the parental backlash (to go along with the rather underwhelming box office in take in comparison to the first movie).

 

[Fresh Prince]

Wonder what a 3rd Batman film under Burton with Keaton would of been like.

 

[Rabastan41]

Well if they made that 3rd film we probably wouldn't have had the Schumacher films. Good or bad thing?

 

[Rabastan41]

And forgetting the bad guys cos they were too corny, especially Arnie's Mr. Freeze, it was an okay movie when I first saw it. Then I watched it again and observed that the heroes wore nipple-plates. Seriously, does Joel Schumacher really take his job seriously?

 

[TMC1982]

Wonder what a 3rd Batman film under Burton with Keaton would of been like.

Had Tim Burton done a third Batman movie, then the Riddler would've probably had been the only villain (Robin Williams was a front runner). Supposedly, the Riddler was going to have a bald head with a question marked shaved in.

Two-Face didn't really come into play until Joel Schumacher came on board. However, Billy Dee Williams (who of course, played a pre-scarred Harvey Dent in the 1989 film) had a "pay or play" clause in his contract. In other words, if the filmmakers wanted to use Two-Face in a future Batman movie, Lando Calrissian was reserved to be the first choice. However, when it was decided that Joel Schumacher and producer Peter MacGregor-Scott wanted to use Tommy Lee Jones (whom they had previously worked with on The Client and Under Siege respectively) to play Two-Face, Warner Bros. had to buy out Billy Dee Williams' contract.

As a matter of fact, Harvey Dent was in an early draft of Batman Returns. However, in the final product, Dent was replaced by the Max Shreck character played by Christopher Walken. Therefore, Selina Kyle went from working for a corrupt district attorney to working for a corrupt business mogul (a la the modern era Lex Luthor). Had Harvey Dent been in Batman Returns, then he would've transformed into Two-Face when Catwoman electrocutes him

Spoiler

(which she instead does to Max Shreck)

.

As for Robin, well I don't think that it was ever set in stone that a Tim Burton Batman movie would've eventually featured Robin. I know that Warner Bros. was pushing for Robin to be in the movies. In one of the early drafts for the 1989 movie, during a chase sequence, the Joker kills Dick Grayson's parents. They even got a young actor named Ricky Addison Reed to play Dick Grayson.

Then for Batman Returns, Marlon Wayans was in the running to play Robin. He wouldn't necessarily had been Dick Grayson, Jason Todd or any other Robin from the comics at the time. This Robin would've worn red overalls (with an R sewn in), a green shirt and a yellow rain coat. He was described as a street smart kid, who helps Batman repair the Batmobile after the Penguin and the Red Triangle Circus sabotaged it.

As for the love interest, Catwoman was rumored to reemerge. Also, when Michael Keaton was still attached to the project, Rene Russo was going to play Dr. Chase Meridian instead of Nicole Kidman. However, when Keaton officially left and Val Kilmer stepped in, it was determined that Russo was too old to be a plausible love interest for Kilmer.

I would like to imagine Batman Forever with the same script but with Anton Furst and/or Bo Welch's set designs instead of Barbara Ling's, Danny Elfman's music instead of Elliot Goldenthal's, and of course, Michael Keaton as Batman instead of Val Kilmer.

 

[MrQuinn]

I didnt realize the music was from a different composer in BF. I'm silly. Anyhow, all those ideas sound pretty good, though I don't think I'm exactly fond of the Robin idea. Mainly just the costume...but it's really because I always hated those colors together as a costume. I'm sure it wouldve been okay...very different, but okay.

 

[MrQuinn]

also: the way he wouldve worked in twoface sounds pretty decent to me.

 

[TMC1982]

I didnt realize the music was from a different composer in BF. I'm silly. Anyhow, all those ideas sound pretty good, though I don't think I'm exactly fond of the Robin idea. Mainly just the costume...but it's really because I always hated those colors together as a costume. I'm sure it wouldve been okay...very different, but okay.

Even though Robin wasn't in Batman Returns, there was still an action figure made for him. So this is likely an idea of how the Robin suit might have looked in a Tim Burton Batman movie:
http://gofigureactionfigures.com/media/robin(br).jpg

I do kind it funny that even though they never worked together in an actual Batman movie, Michael Keaton and Chris O'Donnell would go on to work together in a miniseries for TNT called The Company.

 

[MrQuinn]

Even though Robin wasn't in Batman Returns, there was still an action figure made for him. So this is likely an idea of how the Robin suit might have looked in a Tim Burton Batman movie:
http://gofigureactionfigures.com/media/robin(br).jpg

I do kind it funny that even though they never worked together in an actual Batman movie, Michael Keaton and Chris O'Donnell would go on to work together in a miniseries for TNT called The Company.

yeah I remember that. That costume idea doesn't seem too bad, for Robin.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That toy is wrong. Marlon Wayans is black. Unless it had vitiligo.

 

[mothy]

one of the biggest pieces of big budget cinematic trash, ever, especially because of how much it betrays the spirit of its excellent source material and the films before it.

it's just a cheese-fest from beginning to end, coming across as a live-action adaptation of the adam west series without the wham! animations, which was not the goal of the production.

arnold positively butchers the role of mr. freeze - who is supposed to be an intelligent, brooding character who does not wear polar bear bathrobes or have a gang full of skate-wearing goons. he is pensive, near emotionless. the only thing that gives him any level of emotion is his wife. here, he's spouting comic lines here and there like an idiot, and comes across as a buffoon. there's no real menace here.

clooney just isn't dark enough to play batman - his "hi freeze, i'm batman!" is cringe inducing to the point of near-death. i mean, batman is supposed to have two personalities - bruce wayne and batman. for clooney, they're one and the same. There's no dark, brutal side to batman here - and batman, by all means, is dark and brutal. val Kilmer may have been wooden, but at least he couldn't be described as "goofy". not to mention clooney looks positively ridiculous in costume.

chris o'donnell, who was at least decent in forever (even though robin is supposed to be a kid when he starts out), is given no help here with his dialogue, and alicia silverstone is atrocious as batgirl in a totally unnecessary role that gives her character little motivation or impact.

the production design is horrid, with large naked men dotting the landscape, decorated in neon colors. ugh. that scene with the motorbikes is definitely not batman.

the only, and I mean only, thing that's decent about this film is the casting of uma thurman, and even then, she has some of the worst dialogue ever to deliver.

 

[TMC1982]

one of the biggest pieces of big budget cinematic trash, ever, especially because of how much it betrays the spirit of its excellent source material and the films before it.

it's just a cheese-fest from beginning to end, coming across as a live-action adaptation of the adam west series without the wham! animations, which was not the goal of the production.

arnold positively butchers the role of mr. freeze - who is supposed to be an intelligent, brooding character who does not wear polar bear bathrobes or have a gang full of skate-wearing goons. he is pensive, near emotionless. the only thing that gives him any level of emotion is his wife. here, he's spouting comic lines here and there like an idiot, and comes across as a buffoon. there's no real menace here.

clooney just isn't dark enough to play batman - his "hi freeze, i'm batman!" is cringe inducing to the point of near-death. i mean, batman is supposed to have two personalities - bruce wayne and batman. for clooney, they're one and the same. There's no dark, brutal side to batman here - and batman, by all means, is dark and brutal. val Kilmer may have been wooden, but at least he couldn't be described as "goofy". not to mention clooney looks positively ridiculous in costume.

chris o'donnell, who was at least decent in forever (even though robin is supposed to be a kid when he starts out), is given no help here with his dialogue, and alicia silverstone is atrocious as batgirl in a totally unnecessary role that gives her character little motivation or impact.

the production design is horrid, with large naked men dotting the landscape, decorated in neon colors. ugh. that scene with the motorbikes is definitely not batman.

the only, and I mean only, thing that's decent about this film is the casting of uma thurman, and even then, she has some of the worst dialogue ever to deliver.

I don't think that it's entirely George Clooney's fault. That script and the direction was so garishly cheesy and campy, I don't think that anybody (outside of maybe, Adam West himself) could salvage it. The main problem with Batman & Robin is that it has no idea about what time of tone its going for. Is it supposed to be campy and over-the-top like the old TV series or is it supposed to be more dramatic (like the subplots involving Alfred's illness, Mr. Freeze's angst over his wife, and Batman & Robin being at odds)

The sad thing about Mr. Freeze is that Arnold Schwarzenegger truly portrayed a menacing, intimiating (not to mention geniunely emotionless) villain in the first Terminator. Still, I would've prefered a more "cerebal" or distinguished actor like Patrick Stewart or Anthony Hopkins (imagine Batman going up against Hannibal Lecter) as Mr. Freeze. Part of the appeal of Victor Fries is that despite his otherwise frail physical condition, his suit gives him super strength. So it's awfully counterproductive to cast a guy, who's famous for his impressive physique like Arnold to portray Mr. Freeze.

I agree that Batgirl has no business being in this movie (especially one that's called Batman & Robin). To me, she was there in order to sell more action figures (besides being a lame attempt to lure in more girls). With Dick Grayson, at least there was a logical reason for him wanting to help Batman (so that he can get revenge against Two-Face for murdering his family). But with Barbara Gordon (or whatever the hell her name is, since they didn't want her to be James Gordon's daughter), they just have Alicia Silverstone tell Alfred (or the Max Headroom like rendering of Alfred if you want to be technical) that she wants to help Batman and Robin. At least on the animated series, the writers tried to give a plausible and reasonable explaination for Barbara becoming Batgirl in the first place (she was trying to clear her father's name).

Virtually most of Uma Thurman's dialogue as Poison Ivy consists of double entendres. I also wish that Uma was a bit more subtle in her performance. It seems like she's trying her hardest to channel the spirit of Mae West. That was probably the biggest problem with Joel Schumacher's direction (his lack of guidance). He never really bothered to tighten the reigns on his actors. This for example, is why Tommy Lee Jones was so over-the-top as Two-Face.

 

[Fresh Prince]

If they would of kept the same concept of Batman Forever but drop the campy and cheeyness, Batman & Robin could of been a good movie.

 

[MrQuinn]

In regards to Clooney, I actually do think his role in the movie was entirely his fault. Nothing against the guy, but he's a one dimensional actor. I can only think of one instance where he wasn't "Geroge Clooney"ish, and I cant even remember what the name of the movie is. I wanna say he starred with Nicole Kidman, in the scene I'm thinking of, they had a guy duct taped to a chair and Clooney got rather snappy and aggressive with him, followed by a car chase.

That aside....Clooney is always....Clooney. They might as well have casted Vince Vaughn, who is always....Vince Vaughn (except in Psycho....)

I feel no remorse for Clooney whats so ever, or anybody that was involved in this film (except maybe the actor who played Bane. That was really just sad and pathetic.)

 

[Fresh Prince]

I was shocked Vince Vaughn was in Psycho as Norman Bates in the first place.

 

[MrQuinn]

I was shocked Vince Vaughn was in Psycho as Norman Bates in the first place.

true that

 

[Fresh Prince]

I mean its Vince Vaughn lol...Thats like Steve Caroll playing Hannibal Lector.

 

[TMC1982]

Had Tim Burton done a third Batman movie, then the Riddler would've probably had been the only villain (Robin Williams was a front runner). Supposedly, the Riddler was going to have a bald head with a question marked shaved in.

Two-Face didn't really come into play until Joel Schumacher came on board. However, Billy Dee Williams (who of course, played a pre-scarred Harvey Dent in the 1989 film) had a "pay or play" clause in his contract. In other words, if the filmmakers wanted to use Two-Face in a future Batman movie, Lando Calrissian was reserved to be the first choice. However, when it was decided that Joel Schumacher and producer Peter MacGregor-Scott wanted to use Tommy Lee Jones (whom they had previously worked with on The Client and Under Siege respectively) to play Two-Face, Warner Bros. had to buy out Billy Dee Williams' contract.

As a matter of fact, Harvey Dent was in an early draft of Batman Returns. However, in the final product, Dent was replaced by the Max Shreck character played by Christopher Walken. Therefore, Selina Kyle went from working for a corrupt district attorney to working for a corrupt business mogul (a la the modern era Lex Luthor). Had Harvey Dent been in Batman Returns, then he would've transformed into Two-Face when Catwoman electrocutes him

Spoiler

(which she instead does to Max Shreck)

.

As for Robin, well I don't think that it was ever set in stone that a Tim Burton Batman movie would've eventually featured Robin. I know that Warner Bros. was pushing for Robin to be in the movies. In one of the early drafts for the 1989 movie, during a chase sequence, the Joker kills Dick Grayson's parents. They even got a young actor named Ricky Addison Reed to play Dick Grayson.

Then for Batman Returns, Marlon Wayans was in the running to play Robin. He wouldn't necessarily had been Dick Grayson, Jason Todd or any other Robin from the comics at the time. This Robin would've worn red overalls (with an R sewn in), a green shirt and a yellow rain coat. He was described as a street smart kid, who helps Batman repair the Batmobile after the Penguin and the Red Triangle Circus sabotaged it.

As for the love interest, Catwoman was rumored to reemerge. Also, when Michael Keaton was still attached to the project, Rene Russo was going to play Dr. Chase Meridian instead of Nicole Kidman. However, when Keaton officially left and Val Kilmer stepped in, it was determined that Russo was too old to be a plausible love interest for Kilmer.

I would like to imagine Batman Forever with the same script but with Anton Furst and/or Bo Welch's set designs instead of Barbara Ling's, Danny Elfman's music instead of Elliot Goldenthal's, and of course, Michael Keaton as Batman instead of Val Kilmer.

Supposedly, Tim Burton worked with Joel Schumacher in hiring Lee and Janet Scott-Batchler to write the Batman Forever script. The first draft (before Schumacher brought Akiva Goldsmith in to "lighten things down") introduced a psychotic Riddler with a pet rat accompanying him. The elements and much of the dialogue however, still remained in the finished film.

 

[Fresh Prince]

First draft was totally better then the second....If they used the first draft, film would of been really good.

 

[TMC1982]

First draft was totally better then the second....If they used the first draft, film would of been really good.

If you insist on bringing in a certified hack like Akiva Goldsmith, you're pretty much asking for trouble. He wrote Batman & Robin entirely by himself and just look at the end result. I wish that Warner Bros. wasn't putting so much pressure on the filmmakers on delivering a more "family friendly" and/or commercialized film after Batman Returns. I think Batman Forever would've been much better if it had more depth. It to me, was a major mistake to delete that sequence in which an amnesia stricken (after Two-Face shoots him in the head) Bruce Wayne discovers his father's red book (thus, revealing that Bruce shouldn't feel all to guilty or personally responsible about his parents deaths after all) and finally realizes his destiny in being Batman (i.e. meeting up with that gigantic bat).

 

[TMC1982]

In regards to Clooney, I actually do think his role in the movie was entirely his fault. Nothing against the guy, but he's a one dimensional actor. I can only think of one instance where he wasn't "Geroge Clooney"ish, and I cant even remember what the name of the movie is. I wanna say he starred with Nicole Kidman, in the scene I'm thinking of, they had a guy duct taped to a chair and Clooney got rather snappy and aggressive with him, followed by a car chase.

That aside....Clooney is always....Clooney. They might as well have casted Vince Vaughn, who is always....Vince Vaughn (except in Psycho....)

I feel no remorse for Clooney whats so ever, or anybody that was involved in this film (except maybe the actor who played Bane. That was really just sad and pathetic.)

The casting of George Clooney seemed to be more about how he would look in the Batsuit rather than anything remoting performance related. The story that I've always heard is that Joel Schumacher saw a photo or poster of George Clooney's movie From Dusk Til Dawn and drew a cowl over his head. This is in sharp contrast to when Schumacher wanted Val Kilmer (after Michael Keaton officially left the series) after seeing him as Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

 

[Fresh Prince]

If you insist on bringing in a certified hack like Akiva Goldsmith, you're pretty much asking for trouble. He wrote Batman & Robin entirely by himself and just look at the end result. I wish that Warner Bros. wasn't putting so much pressure on the filmmakers on delivering a more "family friendly" and/or commercialized film after Batman Returns. I think Batman Forever would've been much better if it had more depth. It to me, was a major mistake to delete that sequence in which an amnesia stricken (after Two-Face shoots him in the head) Bruce Wayne discovers his father's red book (thus, revealing that Bruce shouldn't feel all to guilty or personally responsible about his parents deaths after all) and finally realizes his destiny in being Batman (i.e. meeting up with that gigantic bat).

Yeah other scenes like Two-Face escaping from Arkyum Asylum, Riddler beating the cop with his cane would of been awesome on film...Including what you said at the end of your sentence...Avi Goldsman should of not written B&R...Someone talented should had...And what gets me is they could of had a light toned Batman film..Did not have to be 60s show or 50s/60s comics....It could be Spiderman light toned and be great if done right....But they ****ed it all up.

 

[TMC1982]

Yeah other scenes like Two-Face escaping from Arkyum Asylum, Riddler beating the cop with his cane would of been awesome on film...Including what you said at the end of your sentence...Avi Goldsman should of not written B&R...Someone talented should had...And what gets me is they could of had a light toned Batman film..Did not have to be 60s show or 50s/60s comics....It could be Spiderman light toned and be great if done right....But they ****ed it all up.

Akiva Goldsmith's involvement in the two Joel Schumacher Batman films is partially why I don't think that it's fair for fans to lay the whole blame for the bad parts in Batman & Robin on Joel Schumacher!