BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 1

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My re-review

In my initial review I gave the film an 8/10, I wasn't wholly keen on the score (although I did love the repeat themes from Man of Steel and the Batman theme) and after looking forward to Jesse Eisenberg as Lex he didn't quite hit the mark for me. But the big thing for me was just how weird it felt, was it the 3D? Was it the Dolby sound with the score feeling overbearing? Was it just disbelief that my two favourite superheroes had met on screen in live action for the first time? Maybe all of those reasons or maybe none. Still as I've said on this forum before, despite that I couldn't stop smiling.

So today I had my second viewing, it was in big standard 2D with normal sound and I came out of the film feeling buzzed. The weird feeling had gone, I loved the score (maybe more so because it was so loud) and I loved Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. What changed? I think I knew what to expect, I had processed that first viewing and I was able to see it flow properly, catching things I'd missed before.

All in all BvS is an 8.5-9/10 for me. I think a third viewing will cement that score for me.

Good man! I still haven't got round to my first viewing yet but that'll be sorted once Mandon Knight and I watch it at the BFI IMAX in two weeks time. I've only listened to a few tracks on the score as I still want to experience something new and unexpected but what a track "Beautiful Lie" is though!
 
Sorry, we must have watched different movies, because Superman never came across as being cynical in this movie.

Batman was jaded and cynical.

Superman was more......disappointed in all the people questioning him despite all the good he was doing.

But he still went around and saved people. He didn't throw his suit in the trash and quit ( well aside from a brief trip to the arctic ).
 
Apologizes for the length and if this comes off as a bit rambling.

I thought it was...okay. It's definitely not as horrendous as some critics are making it out to be, but it is by no means any sort of epic cinematic masterpiece either. To it's credit, it has lots of great individual scenes, character moments, action, and visuals, but when you look at Batman v Superman as an actual story, one with a clear beginning, middle, and end, it's chaotic, confusing, and just downright sloppy. It has all the ingredients to make an exciting, gripping, and thought-provoking Batman and Superman story, but barely holds together under any scrutiny whatsoever. It's as if Zack Synder cut out several panels from five or six different graphic novels, pasted them all on individual sheets of different colored binder paper with some Elmer's School Paste, drew whatever “panels” he thought were missing with some crayons, stapled all the sheets together, took one cursory glance at the gooey, crumpled, haphazard patchwork of a “comic book” he created, and said, “Well, it gooks good to me--let's start filming everybody!”


And some of what made the final cut should have stayed on the cutting room floor. As cool as that whole post-apocalyptic nightmare or premonition Bruce has about Superman turning evil, it really has jack-all to do with what actually happens in the movie. Same for the following “dream within a dream” of the Flash coming to warn Bruce. It's obvious the only reason these scenes even exit at all is to set up Justice League, but it could've been taken out the final cut entirely and you wouldn't have lost a thing. Not to mention, it really doesn't make a lick of sense. So Bruce has a vivid dream about a possible future, and somehow a time-traveling Flash can enter it, too? WTF?! Same goes for the “teaser trailers for upcoming movies” within the movie. Oh, excuse me, I mean “the encrypted LexCorp metahuman files,” complete with designer logos to clue the audience in as who they are. Once again, there's no reason for them to be commercials for upcoming DC movies. It could've just ended on the Wonder Woman photograph from 1917 and that's it.


As far as the performances go, I agree with the consensus that Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne/Batman is the best thing in the film, bar none. Maybe it had to do with the fact that he's one of the few characters who has a genuine story arc. Or maybe it had something to do those rumors of Affleck rewriting parts of the script pertaining to Batman. Or maybe it's because the filmmakers clearly loved the Dark Knight Returns. Or maybe Affleck has matured as an actor. Whatever the reason, the movie was able to bring to life Frank Miller's take on the Caped Crusader to the big screen. Yes, I realize this Batman is brutal, vicious, and does break his “one rule,” but in the context of the film, it at tries to justify it. In his conversations with Jeremy Iron's Alfred—also very good, by the way—it's Bruce's sense of powerlessness after the attack on Metropolis which has made him become more violent and ruthless. It's revealed Batman has only started branding criminals after the attack on Metropolis, and the sex trafficker is only the second one. This, along with the loss of Robin at the hands of the Joker, and whatever suffering he's endured over the last 20 years, had turned Bruce, as Alfred implies, into someone“cruel.” Oh, and that fight scene where rescues Ma Kent (which was shown in the third trailer)? Pure, unadulterated badass! That's the kind of fight choreography I wish we had gotten in Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy but never did.


Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman was also pretty good...for the few scenes she was actually in the movie. The moment she finally appears in full costume and helps fight Doomsday was a definite high point. Yes, she seemed a bit tacked on as far as the story goes, but based on what we're given here, I was impressed.


As for Henry Cavill as Clark Kent/Superman, you might as well have called him the Man of Wood instead of the Man of Steel, because he just looks so stiff, rigid, and just plain bored. I get the film wants to get across the idea that Superman wants people to see him as a regular guy just trying to help, that he feels uncomfortable being labeled a god, that he's getting more discouraged over being blamed for things which are not his fault. But at no time did I find Cavill convincing. Rather, impression was Cavill was barely keeping himself awake and just wished he could be anywhere else than being in this movie. And it wasn't just that Senate scene either. He was that way in every. single. scene! Cavill may look like Superman, but he doesn't inspire any scene of wonder or inspiration that Superman should, even though this film oh so desperately keeps telling us this but never really shows it. It's also why I did not feel a single thing when it came to Superman deciding to make the ultimate sacrifice in stopping Doomsday (not that it makes much difference, since the last shot telegraphs the fact he's going to come back to life). I can't believe I'm saying this, but Cavill actually did a much better job in playing Superman in Man of Steel than he does in this movie. And ss for the chemistry between him and Amy Adam's Lois Lane? There really wasn't any. Well...except for the bathtub scene, maybe.


And then there's Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Zuckerberg. No, I refuse to call this ADHD, spastic, mop-headed, snot-nosed, hipster-doofus of a character “Lex Luthor.” Yes, Lex is supposed to be a self-important, intelligent sociopath, but who in their right mind would ever be intimidated, fear, or have any ounce of respect for this buffoon? Sure, Eisenberg was having fun, but somebody needed to tell to him to dial it back or take some Ritalin. He was chewing the scenery so much, the grips probably had to perform the Heimlich maneuver on him between takes just to stop him from choking on the cardboard (or would that be cherry-flavored jolly ranchers?). He also tried so hard to be as comical as Gene Hackman or Kevin Spacy's Luthors could be, but instead of being funny, he just came off as annoying. Worse, Lex Zuckerberg has no clear motive for wanting to kill Superman. Does he want him dead because of what Superman represents? Because he's jealous of Superman? Does he want to kill him just for kicks? All we get are these heavy-handed, pedantic tangents about Gods, devils, his father, and “the oldest lie in America,” but none of it gives you a concrete idea as to why he's going to such absurd lengths to see Superman disgraced or dead. Or Batman, for that matter. It doesn't matter if he's not like the Lex Luthor of the comics, or if supposed to be the original Lex Luthor's son or whatever...he was horribly miscast. Or given terrible direction and dialogue, take your pick.


And his so-called scheme to frame Superman and tricking Batman into fight him also doesn't make any sense, either. Why, for instance, would anyone believe Superman was responsible for killing bunch of African villagers when everybody knows he doesn't use guns and doesn't need to use guns? I mean Lois is going around showing off the “experimental bullet” to that General from Man of Steel, talking about cover-ups, and I'm thinking “For crying out loud, does everybody except Lois Lane think Superman looks and acts like this guy?”



at-earths-end_136821-fli_1370936843.jpg


Which also makes wonder why Lois wasn't asked to testify at the Senate hearing, considering how she witnessed everything that happened and was the reason why Superman was even there. It's just as absurd once people also accuse Superman of being cahoots with the guy in the wheelchair blowing up the Senate hearing, especially since that person publicly blames Superman for the loss of his legs. ?” Why would he go through all the trouble in smuggling in the Kryptonite rock when he counted on Batman stealing it anyway? How did he know Batman would even steal the Kryptonite? And isn't it kind of weird that, in spite of not working together, Lex Zuckerberg kidnaps Superman's mom right at the moment Batman just so happens to have come up with his plan to trap and destroy Superman? Hell, why even trick Superman and Batman to fight each other at all when he's already in the middle of creating Doomsday? Even though he says he wants the whole world to see Superman humbled by a mere man, no one is actually watching their fight because everyone's paying attention to all the strange electrical energy coming out the place Lex is keeping the Kryptonian scout ship.


And speaking of the actual Batman v Superman fight (which delivered the goods, I'll give you that), why would Superman, right as Batman is about to impale him with the Kryptonite spear, call his adoptive mom by her first name when he had never done so at any time during this movie or Man of Steel? I guess we're supposed to conclude that since he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne he also figured out Bruce's mother was also named Martha? Accept why would he think that would get Batman to hesitate? Sure, it's a nice way to connect both Superman and Batman by pointing out their mothers had the same name, until you realize this being the thing to make Batman stop his hatred against Superman is not only contrived but a huge plot hole.


I know I'm starting to get nitpicky, and I'm not suggesting the movie is flat-out terrible (though I can understand why some would think so), but it suffers from almost the same problems The Amazing Spider-Man 2 did in that it's trying to juggle too many things at once while setting up a future cinematic universe. If they had cut out the dream sequences and hallucinations, all the blatant Justice League set-ups, rewrote the script to tighten things up, and speed up the pacing, Batman v Superman would've been a kick-ass comic book movie; the makings of one are all there, and you can see those bits and pieces of it, but as it stands, it just doesn't make it. I'd give this about a 2 ½ out of 4 stars, or a 5 out of 10.
 
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I saw it again. I felt, again, that there was a good movie in there that was overwhelmed that everything that didn't work.

I noticed that Batman murdered a security guard while stealing the kryptonite from Lexcorp (an EMT is seen trying to resuscitate Batman's victim). Presumably this guy was just doing his job trying to stop a burglar. That's probably grossest thing I could think of including in a Batman film.

The choice Superman is forced to make, between his life as a man and his life as Superman is one that Superman should reject as a false dilemma. That's choice is certainly a part of Batman lore, but Superman's rejection of that premise is part of what makes them different. So I hope in future films we see that theme recur and see Superman refuse this idea that he has to choose between being a man and being good. Not sure how they'll wave away Clark's death, but it's movies so it could happen.

Again, found Wonder Woman to be the most enjoyable part of the film. Her battle with Doomsday is certainly more engaging than the boring title fight. Loved Doomsday's design.

I found the [blackout]death of Superman[/blackout] and the final scenes more effective this time around.

If I were to score it on it's own merits I suppose I would give it a 5/10. If I were to factor in my visceral reaction to Batman being a killing machine, the score drops... considerably.
 
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Just came back from a showing. There are literally no words. I went in with extremely low expectations, and somehow unbelievably, this movie couldn't even match them. My wife was already in an ornary mood to go see this, because she knew the RT score was terrible. I begged her to just go and see it with me, because "Superman".

I'm a comic fan, and this is an abomination of a movie. I won't bother with the words - it doesn't deserve it. BUT, I'll turn this over to a summation from my wife:

It blows my mind with all the talented people in hollywood and on this film, that no one, anywhere, thought to themselves "we can't release this, it's ****". I'm going to go to sleep now and pray for a dream sequence that'll make no sense, but will somehow explain how I can get back the last 3 hours of my life.
 
It's too bad that this film was not better received because it is great to see fans rally behind something positive. While this movie is disappointing, it isn't nearly as bad as some reviewers and fans make it out to be. This movie is no where near the depths that Fantastic Four or Amazing Spider-man sunk to. There are some pretty majors problems with the editing and pacing, which made the movie a labour at times. Still, there was nothing notoriously awful about this film.

The best parts of the movie were the scenes with Henry Cavill. He is able to communicate a lot with his face, which makes his Superman feel genuine and pathetic (in that I feel bad for him). They've nailed the way Superman moves in actions scenes, with the space battle being a highlight of the movie. I like Superman's world, between the Daily Planet and Smallville. Clark and Lois were genuinely sweet together - I can actually see why they're comic's most iconic couple from this movie, a feeling I have never gotten from a Superman movie. Honestly, I'd rather watch a Man of Steel sequel than BvS.

Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne/Batman is psychopathic. These scenes are where the movie lagged. The re-telling of the Wayne murders was boring - I'm trying not to compare anything to the Nolan movies but I have to make an exception here. Snyder's take on it can't compete. This isn't my favourite version of the character, not helped by all the slow-motion scenes in that field. The dream sequences were poorly done. The dream-within-a-dream was silly and should have been left out of this movie. The only dream that worked was the bat monster. I was just tired of Batman by the time the actual battle started. It was a poor set-up to begin with - who would actually cheer for Batman in this scenario?

Wonder Woman was extremely well done. Although completely inconsequential to the plot, her presence elevated the mood of the movie. She was built up so her appearance in costume in the Doomsday battle was a great moment. Her fighting style was perfect and I'm thrilled we got to see the lasso. She looked and felt iconic and once she came into the movie I didn't really care about anything else.

The rest of the cast did a decent job. I like Lex as a disturbed and unstable genius who backed up his brand of crazy with classical references and philosophy. While a bit campy at times he brought life and energy into the movie to help make up for two leads's brooding. I have no complaints about Perry White, Martha Kent, or Alfred. They all helped flesh out the world and these two men.

The Justice League set-up should have been scaled back. The scene of Diana watching videos of the other meta-humans undercut the momentum leading up to the BvS battle (the fight itself was decently executed, though I wish there was more of a philosophical conflict between them - where each side can voice their worldview). The cyborg set-up was particularly bad and Aquaman's was awkward.

The movie was incoherent out of an incompetence of cohesion and not to deconstruct the genre or film. I've never seen a movie oscillate from greatness to crap like this before. The montage of Superman saving people as commenters spoke about the scale of his presence was powerful and very well done. As was the juxtaposition of the two funerals at the end. But do these moments forgive Lex's nonsensical masterplan and a stupid CGI monster? I'm not sure, but the movie did leave me with wanting more from the DC universe, and that's how I usually measure success in these movies. A comic book movie succeeds if I feel like watching a cartoon or read a comic based on these characters after I watch a movie like this, and I do right now.
6.5/10
 
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Just came back from a showing. There are literally no words. I went in with extremely low expectations, and somehow unbelievably, this movie couldn't even match them. My wife was already in an ornary mood to go see this, because she knew the RT score was terrible. I begged her to just go and see it with me, because "Superman".

I'm a comic fan, and this is an abomination of a movie. I won't bother with the words - it doesn't deserve it. BUT, I'll turn this over to a summation from my wife:

It blows my mind with all the talented people in hollywood and on this film, that no one, anywhere, thought to themselves "we can't release this, it's ****". I'm going to go to sleep now and pray for a dream sequence that'll make no sense, but will somehow explain how I can get back the last 3 hours of my life.

Then why did she even go? :funny:
 
Well, I saw the movie today finally... I liked it okay, but it felt to me like there was a great story in there that was both hacked up in editing and maybe mishandled by Snyder as a director. Enjoyed all the Batman stuff a lot. I didn't see Batman kill that many people except with the guns on his car - even the much-talked about knifing was non-lethal as the guy could be seen in the background moving around in pain with the knife stuck through his shoulder. Seemed to be Batman killed about as much in this as he did in Batman 89, with the difference being that here he was clearly meant to have lost his way and his journey in the film was about learning to care again.

The plot just felt too rushed with certain leaps left unexplained and the way the JLA setup was handled seemed shoehorned in. Didn't hate it, didn't love it, enjoyed it enough to watch again because Batfleck. Everyone other than him seems to get shortchanged though.
 
Just saw it. In short, while there were several good ideas and moments in the film, there was no solid foundation to make them stick.

A few points that immediately stick out to me about the film:

The bad:
The subplot concerning the incident in the desert was absolutely not needed, and the "outcry" over that incident was both not earned and should have been solely about the leveling of Metropolis.

Lex Luthor. I just really didn't like the portrayal.

"Martha." You spend the entire movie showing us how determined Bats is in ending superman for the good of the world, but right when he's about to land the killing blow, you make him do a complete 180 on his intent and view of superman because his mom's name is Martha too? This was just a completely weak transition when it should have been a powerful moment for the two characters.

I think Doomsday was just mad because Lex didn't give him a penis. Poor guy.

The Good
Wonder Woman. While she had absolutely no bearing on the plot and was basically a useless character, it was cool to see her kick ass. I'm actually looking forward to her solo film.

Batman. Affleck did a great job with the role he was given, and overall, this is my favorite rendition of the character and I'm really looking forward to his next film. I don't have an issue with the killing aspect like others do. They made a point to discuss how he was becoming "cruel", and I liked the idea that he had devolved in such a way; he wasn't out and out murdering people intentionally, but he wasn't crying over it. A perfect example is in the building when the henchman throws a grenade at Bats. Batman lobs the grenade out of the way; he's not going to cry about it if henchman didn't have the brains to GTFO. I can appreciate if other people still have an issue with it though.

Overall, I don't think it was a bad film, but it certainly wasn't very good.
 
Just came back from a showing. There are literally no words. I went in with extremely low expectations, and somehow unbelievably, this movie couldn't even match them. My wife was already in an ornary mood to go see this, because she knew the RT score was terrible. I begged her to just go and see it with me, because "Superman".

I'm a comic fan, and this is an abomination of a movie. I won't bother with the words - it doesn't deserve it. BUT, I'll turn this over to a summation from my wife:

It blows my mind with all the talented people in hollywood and on this film, that no one, anywhere, thought to themselves "we can't release this, it's ****". I'm going to go to sleep now and pray for a dream sequence that'll make no sense, but will somehow explain how I can get back the last 3 hours of my life.


Damn.
 
Because thus far, I haven't made her watch poop. She has fully revoked that trust in me after this. LOL

Well, clearly she should value the almighty RT's beliefs more than anyone else's opinion, even yours and her own.
 
Ya, unfortunately, I'm one of the fans that strongly vehemently hated this thing. To each their own of course. If someone came out of that enjoying it, or even thinking it was passable, it's safe to say I do not share any tastes in entertainment quality that they would.

It's not a right or wrong, yes or no. Simply personal preference of course. I won't deem anyone's opinion wrong on this. I just won't ever take entertainment advice from anyone that did :)
 
Ya, unfortunately, I'm one of the fans that strongly vehemently hated this thing. To each their own of course. If someone came out of that enjoying it, or even thinking it was passable, it's safe to say I do not share any tastes in entertainment quality that they would.

It's not a right or wrong, yes or no. Simply personal preference of course. I won't deem anyone's opinion wrong on this. I just won't ever take entertainment advice from anyone that did :)

Reminds me of the time I took a date to see Green Lantern 2011.

There was a relationship doomed for failure.
 
Well, clearly she should value the almighty RT's beliefs more than anyone else's opinion, even yours and her own.
I wouldn't call RT almighty; So much as a collection of 250 people and counting - 180 of which happened to warn, that their experience was varying degress of less then ideal. LOL

And to be fair, she did see it. In its entirety. Thusly, she was loving enough to see it to the end, and form her own opinion on it.
 
Reminds me of the time I took a date to see Green Lantern 2011.

There was a relationship doomed for failure.
Ryan let you down there! Hopefully, he fixed that, and you took a new date to Deadpool. He owes you some sexy time LOL
 
This guy is analyzing it from the perspective of Discourse Analysis, it'll go over 95% of people's heads and be dismissed as "pretentious" in all likelihood.

If you know who Armond White is you'll know how hilarious the point you're trying to make is
 
If you know who Armond White is you'll know how hilarious the point you're trying to make is

Forgive me if I don't treat your word as gospel, I have no idea who he is so I'm not trying to punt some ideological position. You've clearly made up your mind on his review based on who he is and not investigating what he's saying.

And as someone who studied discourse analysis I can attest to the fact that trying to explain it to people generally results in the same reaction you're currently exhibiting.

Perhaps you should entertain the notion that though the film may be a technical minefield, it could still possess all the cultural and societal critiques that this guy is highlighting and that they might actually be valid - despite your increasingly obvious wish that 100% of people believe this movie achieved absolutely nothing.
 
This guy is analyzing it from the perspective of Discourse Analysis, it'll go over 95% of people's heads and be dismissed as "pretentious" in all likelihood.

That critic called Snyder's BvS more adult than Nolan's take on sophomoric, pseudo-tragic elements of the Batman graphic novels.

Hahaha that's rich. Snyder more adult. Too funny. He even said Snyder was among today's outstanding filmmakers. :whatever:
 
just got back from watching bvs for the first time and i gta say that I came out not liking the film as much as i wanted to....i dont hate it but i just thought it was ok...i dont blame someone who is objective for not liking the film... there were just too much flaws imo....although i watched it with 5 other people who i guess can be categorized as the general audience and the one person i thought for sure would hate it..she actually liked it a lot...

still excited for justice league though
 
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