BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 2

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That doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. At all.

It's actually becoming a very popular comparison. People are writing whole comprehensive articles on this;

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/batm...n-and-batman-robin-two-sides-of-the-same-coin

^ I think BvS is forcing people to like MOS more. That's a bad sign :(

MOS is the lesser of two evils...

At least one of them I can watch over and over again. :oldrazz:

Yeah B&R at least has some kind of entertainment value.
 
^ I think BvS is forcing people to like MOS more. That's a bad sign :(
I've mused on this lately as well. The idea that BvS would be so good that it would retroactively improve upon MoS was picking up a lot of steam around here. What's funny is that people are indeed reflecting more fondly upon MoS (except for me, apparently), but it isn't for the reasons that have been touted for the last 3 years.
 
I think it mostly has to do with the story that was told.

There's a definite story, there are themes explored, there are character arcs.

But it wasn't the ones people wanted to see for the most part.

When the dust settles, and the wounds of unfulfilled expectations start to heal, this film is going to grow on people.
How many people have continually said they like some of the ideas in BvS, but not the execution? How many people were excited by the trailers and promotional materials which hyped up this story and the themes therein? Quite a bit it turns out, so there goes that point.
I can all but guarantee this movie isn't going to find a second life a few years from now, at least not the theatrical cut. It's going to be remembered as a huge disappointment.
I actually have a fairly strong feeling that once we get further into the DCEU, most of the defenders are going to lose the rose-colored lenses and begin to acknowledge the glaring flaws.
 
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It's actually becoming a very popular comparison. People are writing whole comprehensive articles on this;

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/batm...n-and-batman-robin-two-sides-of-the-same-coin

Oof. If one (mis)interprets BvS in that particular way, I guess it WOULD seem terrible. That article feels like it was written by somebody who said, "I think Snyder is probably a Republican, this movie is probably trying to challenge my worldview, I think I'll make this all about Donald Trump." WTF?

Check your baggage, David Crow. :loco:
 

So, are we now ready to dispense with the whole "F the critics" notion, or does that only apply when BvS is viewed in a negative light? Because if we're willing to highlight these as well reasoned, intelligent points of view without any suspicion of bias or sinister motives, then we ought to extend that same principle of charity to the rest, no?
 
Oof. If one (mis)interprets BvS in that particular way, I guess it WOULD seem terrible. That article feels like it was written by somebody who said, "I think Snyder is probably a Republican, this movie is probably trying to challenge my worldview, I think I'll make this all about Donald Trump." WTF?

Check your baggage, David Crow. :loco:

They had Batman quote Dick Cheney. Drawing comparisons between this Batman and conservative ideology isn't exactly unfounded.
 
Lol at the notion that Snyder is a better director than Whedon and the Russos. He may have the visuals but hes just not a good storyteller.
 
So, are we now ready to dispense with the whole "F the critics" notion, or does that only apply when BvS is viewed in a negative light? Because if we're willing to highlight these as well reasoned, intelligent points of view without any suspicion of bias or sinister motives, then we ought to extend that same principle of charity to the rest, no?

"I invalidate the critics, unless they validate what I like" :o
 
So, are we now ready to dispense with the whole "F the critics" notion, or does that only apply when BvS is viewed in a negative light? Because if we're willing to highlight these as well reasoned, intelligent points of view without any suspicion of bias or sinister motives, then we ought to extend that same principle of charity to the rest, no?

For one, I never said "F the critics" or even implied. My response to The Joker was simply that there are diverse points of view for this film besides downright-negative ones. Also, if you read, in one of the articles, the writer also addresses the perceived flaws.
 
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I like the idea of suggesting Zack Snyder as a cinematographer, it's where he's strongest.
Bay a least knows he makes obnoxious movies and doesn't apologise for them, he doesn't pretend they are anything more than what they are. Snyder tries to make his films look far more intelligent than what they actually are, spewing philosophy and ideologies in an attempt to sound smart whilst overlooking the fundamentals of narrative and character development. Synder is like some contemporary artist who thinks he's smart by throwing a bunch of trash on the ground, calls it high art and expects you to find meaning in it. Bay is like an artist who's throws trash on the ground, knows it's trash, knows it has no meaning to it, but also knows someone is going to buy it for $100,000 because some people are idiots. Both directors make ordinary movies, but only one of them is quite happy to embrace that.
:lmao:
 
They had Batman quote Dick Cheney. Drawing comparisons between this Batman and conservative ideology isn't exactly unfounded.

Did he quote Dick Cheney? I didn't notice.

At any rate, Batman was pretty clearly demonstrated to be on the wrong side in this movie.
 
I'm quoting your entire post because, honestly, it's perfect. Snyder has a knack for visuals, and just these two gifs prove it. He definitely understands the old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words".

But that simply isn't good enough for a head director. Again... I see no evidence that Snyder can tell a story or is in any way competent with characterization.

I'd be perfectly fine with WB keeping him as the head visual director while getting someone else to do characters and story.

Yeah, he'd probably make a better cinematographer or visual consultant of some kind. Or even co-director. The problem with him is that he seems oblivious to his weaknesses or simply disagrees that he has them. The bigger problem is that WB is acting as his enabler.

Fair enough. I suppose I could also posit that, the film being built as a revenge tragedy, and Batman and Superman being basically twin Hamlet figures, Superman had to be presented with some conundrum to wrestle with, his own "to be or not to be" as it were. But I know the rebuttal is basically, "so don't do that with Superman, or it isn't Superman." Am I right? :)

Nope. My rebuttal is this: feel free to put superman is tough situations in a story, just keep him in character throughout and flesh out his side of things.

It baffles me that a filmmaker is considered a bad storyteller because he does so much of his storytelling with images instead of endless exposition. Film's mandate has pretty much always been "Show, don't tell". That's half its appeal. Not that this film didn't also "tell" plenty.

It also baffles me that people keep making blanket statements about how this person or that person is solely responsible for movie quality, be it good or bad.

Baffles me. It's basically a corporate buzz phrase. Largely meaningless, and not always true.

Look, the idea that a director should be/is solely responsible for the quality of a final product is all well and good, but it's just not accurate on any real level, and it's borderline offensive to the other people involved in making a film. Especially in a massive corporate environment like Warner Brothers. There has to be a structure in place, and other things have to fall into place along the way.

That's not the reason I consider him an inconsistent story-teller (he gets it right sometimes). It's because that seems to be the only, or at least the main, way he gets his point across. BvS, especially at the beginning, just felt like images were being stacked together. There's no flow there. If he could connect things better for pacing and figure out some other methods of story-telling, he'd be great. Great dialogues between characters is as necessary as the images (as seen in works like the Daredevil show).

Also, I don't blame Snyder alone. Terrio's also on the hook for the lack of superman dialogue.

I think it mostly has to do with the story that was told.

There's a definite story, there are themes explored, there are character arcs.

But it wasn't the ones people wanted to see for the most part.

When the dust settles, and the wounds of unfulfilled expectations start to heal, this film is going to grow on people.

I somewhat agree. I think some it does have to do with the story itself because that story is, well, kinda grim. Of all the stories to be told with the characters, why this one?

Still, it's hard to discern such things because BvS's story was shoddily crafted and felt rushed or over-stuffed. If it had been presented better, perhaps people who enjoy the core messages more. I probably would have, at least, since grim isn't something I'm usually miffed about.

^ I think BvS is forcing people to like MOS more. That's a bad sign :(

Yeah, it is.

MOS's superman had some holes in his characterization, but he was downright poetic when compared to the BvS version.
 
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Oof. If one (mis)interprets BvS in that particular way, I guess it WOULD seem terrible. That article feels like it was written by somebody who said, "I think Snyder is probably a Republican, this movie is probably trying to challenge my worldview, I think I'll make this all about Donald Trump." WTF?

Check your baggage, David Crow. :loco:

Misinterprets. Interesting. Seems to suggest that there's only one way to absorb this movie.

Did he quote Dick Cheney? I didn't notice.

At any rate, Batman was pretty clearly demonstrated to be on the wrong side in this movie.

He sure did.

Dick Cheney said:
If there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. It's not about our analysis ... It's about our response.
 
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Did he quote Dick Cheney? I didn't notice.

At any rate, Batman was pretty clearly demonstrated to be on the wrong side in this movie.

Paraphrase would be more accurate, quote was the wrong word, but it's the same message in both cases.

"If there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."

“Count the dead: thousands of people. What’s next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”
 
Lol at the notion that Snyder is a better director than Whedon and the Russos. He may have the visuals but hes just not a good storyteller.

Nobody here said Snyder was better than Whedon. Just the Russos.
 
Misinterprets. Interesting. Seems to suggest that there's only one way to absorb this movie.

A few days ago he told me I was objectively wrong for saying the film was poorly made with an unfocused narrative and poorly developed characters.

This does not match my experience with the film at all, and since you are making qualitative statements, that presents us with a set of mismatched data. It's the equivalent of us standing over a bucket of liquid and arguing whether it's water or vodka. I mean, there is an actual right or wrong answer to the question.
 
Paraphrase would be more accurate, quote was the wrong word, but it's the same message in both cases.

"If there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."

“Count the dead: thousands of people. What’s next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”

wtf?!:dry:
 
Paraphrase would be more accurate, quote was the wrong word, but it's the same message in both cases.

"If there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."

“Count the dead: thousands of people. What’s next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”

Aha. Well that's interesting, then. I didn't even know that was there, that makes it even better.

Again, the movie does condemn Batman's actions, he's clearly in the wrong. So it's in no way meant to glorify Cheney or the mentality of the Bush administration during the war.
 
I'm not adept at recalling political quotes (don't want to get any further into that quagmire), but I'm sure BvS does have political themes, which makes sense. Superman would indeed be a political issue that would drum up all kinds of extremists, worshipers and just plain odd behavior.
 
Misinterprets. Interesting. Seems to suggest that there's only one way to absorb this movie.

There's only one correct way to interpret it, which would be in the way clearly intended by the people who made it.

He sure did.

Cool.

A few days ago he told me I was objectively wrong for saying the film was poorly made with an unfocused narrative and poorly developed characters.

Yep, I sure did.
 
I'm not adept at recalling political quotes (don't want to get any further into that quagmire), but I'm sure BvS does have political themes, which makes sense. Superman would indeed be a political issue that would drum up all kinds of extremists, worshipers and just plain odd behavior.

Yes. I bet CW will have political themes, too. If it doesn't they'll have missed the boat. People are so divided, politically, in this country right now. And it's not even politics, people are very extreme on seemingly everything, things are either the greatest or the worst it seems. I wanted BvS to have relevance to what we're going through in this country, and I didn't get exactly what I wanted in that regard, but there's some of it there.
 
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