BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 2

[Keyser Sushi]

Yeah, it says there's so much, much to like and appreciate about Batman v. Superman.

And that I like writing about it. t:

 

[rogue trooper]

Man I could have kept writing for another four days. I was going to go back in and add in a whole section about the use of visual metaphor in film, but I was worried that it would be insulting to the reader if I felt I had to explain that. However I was also concerned that by omitting it, I was leaving a loophole for somebody to exploit. I decided I had to just be done with it at some point.

From where I stand, you balanced it out neatly. Would have been more tedious for me on writing something like this. Heh.

We will see. Can't do anything if folks don't read it. And I don't think the hardcore haters are going to feel like investing the time it takes to read that monster.

Well, if someone such as us was able to put up with reading Crow's gibberish, anything is possible.

 

[rogue trooper]

And that I like writing about it. t:

...and also to Ultra Nolanite's post, one could say it speaks more of Crow's vast misunderstanding of the film.

 

[FunkMiller]

Decent sum up here of BVS's deficiencies:

http://www.chud.com/172170/dcs-subpar-heroes-zackman-v-superman/

 

[FunkMiller]

Just finished it. Outstanding, Keyser! You really went deep in detail with this! Very informative. Quite the rebuttal.

Well, if it can't change some minds on the film as a whole, it can maybe, at least, shed some light in areas to haters who are just spirally overanalyzing the film.

Jesus Christ. Quit it with the haters ********. I haven't once seen a person who doesn't like BvS slinging insulting language like that at people who do.

 

[rogue trooper]

Jesus Christ. Quit it with the haters ********. I haven't once seen a person who doesn't like BvS slinging insulting language like that at people who do.

Whoa! Some reaction there! Notice my post states a "specific" type of person who dislikes the film, and from a certain perspective, there are. As far as you "haven't once seen a person who doesn't like BvS slinging insulting language like that at people who do", perhaps you need to look closer.

 

[javonstokess]

Until someone can explain to me(using information in the movie and not conjecture or speculation) how:

Spoiler

A. Superman can pinpoint Lois Lane drowning in the middle of a pitched battle, but can't find or go after his own mother who's in a ordinary warehouse
B. Superman would leave a Kryptonian warship in the middle of Metropolis or...
C. Batman can be keenly aware that Lex Luthor is an obvious threat, but make no real moves to do something about him, but be overly concerned with the good Samaritan alien "possibly" going murderous or...
D. The government would pin the murderous of a bunch of africans on Superman even though said africans were CLEARLY killed by gunfire or...
E. Wonder Woman even had a point in the movie.

Then I'll continually say this was a bad movie.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Hater hater hater hater hater hater. Another day, same bull **** derogatory crap for people not liking this movie.

 

[javonstokess]

Hater hater hater hater hater hater. Another day, same bull **** derogatory crap for people not liking this movie.

Eh, doesn't really bother me. I got crap from people when I told them I liked Avengers: Age of Ultron (and I still do like it).

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

AoU is solid. BvS is interesting, but ultimately shakey. And I legit enjoyed BvS.

 

[FunkMiller]

Whoa! Some reaction there! Notice my post states a "specific" type of person who dislikes the film, and from a certain perspective, there are. As far as you "haven't once seen a person who doesn't like BvS slinging insulting language like that at people who do", perhaps you need to look closer.

It doesn't matter who dislikes the film, or for what reason... just give it a rest with using the term hater. It's the kind of ******** playground language that creates a bad vibe.
There might be disagreement amongst us as to whether this movie is a piece of crap or not, but any derogatory language should be saved for the film, and its makers - and not the people talking about it on here.

And yeah, if I did see someone on the other side of the argument being insulting, I'd pull them up on it too.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Until someone can explain to me(using information in the movie and not conjecture or speculation) how:

Then I'll continually say this was a bad movie.

Spoiler

A. Superman can pinpoint Lois Lane drowning in the middle of a pitched battle, but can't find or go after his own mother who's in a ordinary warehouse

I can't prove it with footage, but there's a description of the scene, that will be in UC, where Superman tries to find his mother. 1. Martha doesn't say a word, because she's held at gunpoint. 2. It's a big and noisy city around. 3. During the battle, there's nobody around outside DD, WW, Bats and Lois. 4. Lois is making noises (just like Superman hears conversation on the farm in MoS).

B. Superman would leave a Kryptonian warship in the middle of Metropolis or...

Why wouldn't he? Knife can be used for preparing food or murder. It's not up to Superman to decide what humanity should or shouldn't do. He isn't a dictator or a sole ruler of Earth.

C. Batman can be keenly aware that Lex Luthor is an obvious threat, but make no real moves to do something about him, but be overly concerned with the good Samaritan alien "possibly" going murderous or...

He didn't see Superman as a good samaritan alien. Bruce was focused on Superman, not Luthor. And Luthor is a threat to what exactly? Use Bruce's perspective.

D. The government would pin the murderous of a bunch of africans on Superman even though said africans were CLEARLY killed by gunfire or...

Government didn't pin murders on Superman. The senate questioned legality of Superman's actions. We don't know for sure what happened there, but local government organized bloodbath after Superman left. I say, let's wait for UC, where Africa sequence is expanded.

E. Wonder Woman even had a point in the movie.

Given how Superman sparked research on meta-humans (meta-human thesis), it forced WW to take some actions to prevent exposure (the photo). Because she clearly didn't want to stand for humanity. And in the end she decided to help fight DD, despite her fear of being exposed.

 

[OutOfBoose]

It doesn't matter who dislikes the film, or for what reason... just give it a rest with using the term hater. It's the kind of ******** playground language that creates a bad vibe.
There might be disagreement amongst us as to whether this movie is a piece of crap or not, but any derogatory language should be saved for the film, and its makers - and not the people talking about it on here.

And yeah, if I did see someone on the other side of the argument being insulting, I'd pull them up on it too.

Really? I'd prefer nobody uses any derogatory language towards anyone. Because we all need to respect each other. By insulting a director or a screen-writer, you also hurt feelings of those, who liked the film.

 

[Jaxon]

Until someone can explain to me(using information in the movie and not conjecture or speculation) how:

Spoiler

A. Superman can pinpoint Lois Lane drowning in the middle of a pitched battle, but can't find or go after his own mother who's in a ordinary warehouse
B. Superman would leave a Kryptonian warship in the middle of Metropolis or...
C. Batman can be keenly aware that Lex Luthor is an obvious threat, but make no real moves to do something about him, but be overly concerned with the good Samaritan alien "possibly" going murderous or...
D. The government would pin the murderous of a bunch of africans on Superman even though said africans were CLEARLY killed by gunfire or...
E. Wonder Woman even had a point in the movie.

Then I'll continually say this was a bad movie.

A. You're being overly nitpicky, this is a root part of their connection
B. Likely he was asked by the government so mankind could advance its technology
C. Because this Batman had become obsessed with his own failure in life and was lashing out at Superman
D. Government said that his presence resulted in that outcome
E. Bruce realises it's possible to unite these kind of people because of her

 

[FunkMiller]

Really? I'd prefer nobody uses any derogatory language towards anyone. Because we all need to respect each other. By insulting a director or a screen-writer, you also hurt feelings of those, who liked the film.

Really? Your feelings are hurt if I insult Zack Snyder's ability as a film-maker?

I think Chris Nolan is brilliant, but if you choose to insult his film-making, I don't take offence. I don't know the guy. I'll defend his work, but I won't get upset if someone else sticks it to him. Nor will I refer to people as 'haters' or say that they 'just don't get it'. What the hell's the point in that? How on earth am I making an argument for him by criticising another person if they don't like him?

 

[The Shape]

Until someone can explain to me(using information in the movie and not conjecture or speculation) how...

I don't care about proving anything to you or changing your mind, but here are some fairly logical ways to explain those things:

A. Superman can pinpoint Lois Lane drowning in the middle of a pitched battle, but can't find or go after his own mother who's in a ordinary warehouse

Superman heard Lois banging on the concrete that had trapped her in a place that was in very close proximity to Superman at that moment. She was also trapped in the same place that Superman had left her just moments earlier, which is likely part of what led him to realize it was her making the noise.

His mother was kidnapped back in Smallville, and then was gagged and held captive somewhere in Gotham -- not in nearly as close of proximity to Superman.

So the simple answer is...it was easier (or possible) for him to use his super-hearing to pinpoint the location of Lois in that moment, whereas it was harder (or impossible) for him to pinpoint his mother's location in that moment.

B. Superman would leave a Kryptonian warship in the middle of Metropolis or...

If you're talking about the ship from MOS, yeah, why wouldn't he? That ship was at the center of what was arguably the biggest incident/disaster the world had seen in recent years. Superman was not an enemy of the world and had nothing to hide from them, so why would he "steal" it back and hide it from the world instead of leaving and entrusting it to the people who fought to protect? The people he sided with in the "war" against Zod? Being the idealist that he was, I doubt he ever imagined or predicted some lunatic would gain access to the ship and ultimately create a Doomsday monster.

C. Batman can be keenly aware that Lex Luthor is an obvious threat, but make no real moves to do something about him, but be overly concerned with the good Samaritan alien "possibly" going murderous or...

The film goes through pretty painstaking lengths to show and suggest that Batman was WRONG and completely misguided in his mission, that he wasn't doing the right thing, that he wasn't listening to Alfred's reasoning (as Alfred told him roughly the same thing you are saying now), etc. He didn't care that Lex was doing nefarious **** because, to him, none of that mattered in comparison to the threat he perceived Superman to be. He wasn't the Batman that he once was, or that he should have been, at that point in time.

His "crusade" against Superman was essentially a manifestation of his jaded and narrow-minded views of the world and humanity, that men couldn't be inherently good and all that. Frankly, I think it's impossible for anyone watching to film to have missed this angle or misconstrued Bruce's character arc in any way.

D. The government would pin the murderous of a bunch of africans on Superman even though said africans were CLEARLY killed by gunfire or...

I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that the government blames Superman for the shooting/bomb deaths of those people. No one says he shot those people or killed them directly. The "blame" they are placing is more so about the fact that Superman inserted himself into another world incident/situation (this time in another country and with CIA involvement) on his own, another incident which led to the loss of human life and, for all anyone knows (aside from Lois), it may have been Superman who escalated the situation by showing up. [At that point, no one knows Luthor's men were involved in this at all]

The congressional hearing was not the government saying "Superman needs to arrested for murder", but rather, it was about the fact that he needs to be held responsible for his actions, the fact that he doesn't answer to anyone, the fact that his involvement in certain situations could work against the country's own interests, etc.

As far as whether or not the public pinned those deaths on Superman specifically, well, people love a good scapegoat. This is true for many aspects of life, but especially in politics and world events/incidents. Superman was already somewhat of a controversial figure in the world, so his involvement in another incident which resulted in people dying would certainly be enough for many people to be even more wary or distrustful of him, as we see after the explosion at the senate hearing. Lex knew this, which is why he was able to successfully "fuel the flames" by orchestrating these things.

E. Wonder Woman even had a point in the movie.

I mean, she essentially served as a means to help introduce the concept of metahumans to us and to Batman. She helped defeated the threat at the end of the film and thus formed a relationship with Bruce which involved them planning to seek out other metahumans (the Justice League) together. She's also obviously a going to be a major character within this universe moving forward, so her role in BvS was a brief introduction to the character that familiarized audiences with her to an extent, but left a lot of things about her to be explored later.

Could roughly the same exact BvS story have been told without her being included at all? Yeah, definitely, and probably with more cohesiveness and focus and Batman and Superman. But to suggest she has "no point" in the movie is a little much. Ironically, she's one of the few things about the film that seems to be have garnered near-universal praise, excitement, or acceptance from people.

Then I'll continually say this was a bad movie.

And you're free to continue saying that, regardless of whether you choose to agree with these explanations or decide to accept/reject them completely.

 

[FunkMiller]

The film goes through pretty painstaking lengths to show and suggest that Batman was WRONG and completely misguided in his mission, that he wasn't doing the right thing, that he wasn't listening to Alfred's reasoning (as Alfred told him roughly the same thing you are saying now), etc. He didn't care that Lex was doing nefarious **** because, to him, none of that mattered in comparison to the threat he perceived Superman to be. He wasn't the Batman that he once was, or that he should have been, at that point in time.

Wow. And people wonder why I think the characterisation of Batman in this movie is horrible. What a terrible, stupid human being. He'd rather go after Superman, who has displayed no evil intent, in order to murder him - instead of taking five minutes to look into the twitchy billionaire whose actions have been highly questionable. This isn't Batman. I don't care how many people want to make the argument that he's broken or bitter, he's acting like a right wing stupid jerk throughout the majority of this film.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Really? Your feelings are hurt if I insult Zack Snyder's ability as a film-maker?

I think Chris Nolan is brilliant, but if you choose to insult his film-making, I don't take offence. I don't know the guy. I'll defend his work, but I won't get upset if someone else sticks it to him. Nor will I refer to people as 'haters' or say that they 'just don't get it'. What the hell's the point in that? How on earth am I making an argument for him by criticising another person if they don't like him?

I'm just talking about toxic atmosphere. I don't take you seriously, because everyone these days feels obligated to hate something and to tell about it to the whole world. I'm for polite atmosphere. If you think that this kind of hatred isn't affecting, I wish you someday fell in love with something, that significant amount of people around you DESPISES. Maybe then you will understand. It won't change your opinion, but can bring you down and arguing becomes truly frustrating. Besides, if the negative reaction was truly universal - it's one thing, no point in trying to make someone reconsider, but plenty of people, 2 to 1 liked or loved the film and it's something.

 

[rogue trooper]

Please. You're using it as an insult because you're angry that people don't like BvS. At least own it.

...and then stop using it before the mods have to get involved.

I denounce that statement. That's your perception. I'm definitely not the one angry here.

 

[C. Lee]

I see Kelly took care of business.....

 

[rogue trooper]

I see Kelly took care of business.....

Yes, C. I understand very well. It was not my intent to incite flames. Still, won't happen again.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm just talking about toxic atmosphere. I don't take you seriously, because everyone these days feels obligated to hate something and to tell about it to the whole world. I'm for polite atmosphere. If you think that this kind of hatred isn't affecting, I wish you someday fell in love with something, that significant amount of people around you DESPISES. Maybe then you will understand. It won't change your opinion, but can bring you down and arguing becomes truly frustrating. Besides, if the negative reaction was truly universal - it's one thing, no point in trying to make someone reconsider, but plenty of people, 2 to 1 liked or loved the film and it's something.

But then, if this were another film, one you actively disliked, you'd be perfectly entitled to voice that opinion - even if other people loved it as much as you love BvS. There are plenty of movies I love that other people can't stand (I have a ridiculous soft spot for the Saw movies... and they're awful)

But - and here's the kicker - I can easily spot the flaws. I can see that they're not actually great movies, and I accept that. Life is way too short to to get so hung up on a movie. I'd suggest you might not feel quite so frustrated if you took that approach? Not trying to tell you how to feel, I just don't want you feeling so bad when someone like me gives the movie a kicking. It makes me feel guilty.

 

[The Shape]

Wow. And people wonder why I think the characterisation of Batman in this movie is horrible. What a terrible, stupid human being. He'd rather go after Superman, who has displayed no evil intent, in order to murder him - instead of taking five minutes to look into the twitchy billionaire whose actions have been highly questionable. This isn't Batman.

You're quoting a part of my post in which I essentially said "This isn't Batman". You're right, and that was the point.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with you if the film showed Batman to be this way for no reason whatsoever or made it seems like there was no problem with what he was doing. However, the film DOES give a reason for him to have been that way and the film DOES show/explain that he was wrong to have been this way (along with his one and only ally objecting to his actions and seriously questioning/doubting him). Beyond that, the film suggests that he wasn't always this way and also that he has "changed" by the end, so I disagree with the blanket statement that he's just an all-around horrible, terrible, stupid human being.

Rather, he's just a being. Human beings make mistakes. They suffer from things PTSD and depression which make them act out of character and cloud their judgement. They accomplish great things and experience success, and they also fail at things which lead them to question or doubt themselves and the world around them. They suffer from personal loss and struggle to move on. They go through dark periods that either swallow them whole and destroy their lives completely, or dark periods that they're able to rise up from and learn from.

I don't care how many people want to make the argument that he's broken or bitter, he's acting like a right wing stupid jerk throughout the majority of this film.

It's not about people wanting to "make the argument" that he's broken and bitter. He literally was broken, bitter, jaded, and misguided. There's no arguing against it, and that's what led him to act like the right wing jerk that you have every right to claim he was -- because he was. The Metropolis incident seemed to have just been the "straw that broke the camel's back", so to speak.

Batman is a special character to most (or all) of us, and despite the character's ability to be endlessly reinterpreted in different ways, we all have our own vision of an ideal Batman.

So ultimately, I understand some people are just uncomfortable with seeing Batman act like that at all, or simply refuse to accept a version of Batman who allowed himself to temporarily "lose his way" and fall from "grace", acted out of character, made poor decisions that were fueled by his own inner turmoil, lost side of what his mission as Batman was really about, and even allowed himself to be manipulated by someone (Lex).

 

[shauner111]

Wow. And people wonder why I think the characterisation of Batman in this movie is horrible. What a terrible, stupid human being. He'd rather go after Superman, who has displayed no evil intent, in order to murder him - instead of taking five minutes to look into the twitchy billionaire whose actions have been highly questionable. This isn't Batman. I don't care how many people want to make the argument that he's broken or bitter, he's acting like a right wing stupid jerk throughout the majority of this film.

I'm willing to give this version a pass, only because he's written like the a-hole you say he is in this movie. Hopefully out of the 5 or so movies Batman is in, this will be the only time where he's an idiotic, hot-headed, childish, *****ebag who would rather plan a murder than have a conversation.

He's definitely the most psychotic Batman we've seen in live-action. Even more than Keaton's, who at least had a sense of humor, looked like he cared about Alfred. This one feels like he doesn't care about a single thing other than staying alive. Not his city, nobody. I guess that's the point of this version, but i just don't care for it. I'll breathe easier if i see Batman being heroic in the next movie.

I think it's a horrible first impression for this Batman. I'll stand up and clap if he's not as cold and cruel in Suicide Squad or Justice League.

 

[king666]

Hater hater hater hater hater hater.

That is a two syllable word for any thought too big for little minds.