BvS Batman v Superman & The Dark Knight Returns - let's clear something up... [SPOILERS]

[Kobra]

Btw

Why so little Batman scenes? Were they trying to save money or something?

In DKR animated movie the sequence of scenes when Batman comes back is amazing and would look great in a live action film.

 

[KalMart]

Btw

Why so little Batman scenes? Were they trying to save money or something?

In DKR animated movie the sequence of scenes when Batman comes back is amazing and would look great in a live action film.

In BvS?


I thought it was supposed to be more of a sequel to MOS....giving Superman more 'weight' in the story.

















Yeah right?

 

[schereZada]

Didn't Batman kill the Joker in DKR...or try to? At least the (Frank Miller) comic version?

Batman sort of twists Joker's neck, he wants to kill him. ("His neck... will have to do...") but then he stops before killing him because the Joker is stabbing him once and again. People around see this and call Batman a killer. Joker then finishes what Batman started and laughs at him because he didn't ("They'll never know you didn't have the nerve").

EDIT: When people called Batman a killer, he thinks "I wish I were," which suggests he stopped because he changed his mind at the last second.

 

[Kobra]

In BvS?


I thought it was supposed to be more of a sequel to MOS....giving Superman more 'weight' in the story.

















Yeah right?

Well yeah, but....but...you have this awesome Batman...give him more scenes to shine. And don't show all in the trailers. I knew 95% of the movie going in.

 

[Kobra]

Batman sort of twists Joker's neck, he wants to kill him. ("His neck... will have to do...") but then he stops before killing him because the Joker is stabbing him once and again. People around see this and call Batman a killer. Joker then finishes what Batman started and laughs at him because he didn't ("They'll never know you didn't have the nerve").

EDIT: When people called Batman a killer, he thinks "I wish I were," which suggests he stopped because he changed his mind at the last second.

But before that he just kills a guy like if it was nothing.

 

[KalMart]

Batman sort of twists Joker's neck, he wants to kill him. ("His neck... will have to do...") but then he stops before killing him because the Joker is stabbing him once and again. People around see this and call Batman a killer. Joker then finishes what Batman started and laughs at him because he didn't ("They'll never know you didn't have the nerve").

Now did Batman stop because of the stabbing or because he didn't want to kill the Joker? It's unclear.

I always interpreted that Batman finally had the full intent to kill the Joker (he says/narrates it along the way), and tries to with the neck but he's so sapped of strength from blood loss that the last little bit has to be finished off by Joker. But had he not been so injured, he would have made sure that Joker was dead.

I saw it that way from the first time I read it....that he had no intention of letting Joker live, even as a quadriplegic or what have you. He didn't 'sort of' twist his neck...he broke the crap out of it.

Heck, he even spits on the corpse.

EDIT: When people called Batman a killer, he thinks "I wish I were," which suggests he stopped because he changed his mind at the last second.

Killing someone...just the act with no context...doesn't make you a killer or murderer. In so may ways, even in not being a policemen, Batman should have killed Joker in any of the hundreds of opportunities before. He was justified here, being the only one who could catch Joker...who just killed an entire audience and boy scout group too. 'Wishing I was" is to me more of a tongue-in-cheek statement about the burden he's carried for so long employing other ways than lethal delivery of force. How many deaths could he have prevented over eh years if he had killed the joker before?

I don't see it pertaining to him stopping. He didn't stop, he was just too injured to power it completely through. But that was clearly what he was there TO do.....catch and kill Joker at that point.

 

[Kobra]

I always interpreted that Batman finally had the full intent to kill the Joker (he says/narrates it along the way), and tries to with the neck but he's so sapped of strength from blood loss that the last little bit has to be finished off by Joker. But had he not been so injured, he would have made sure that Joker was dead.

I saw it that way from the first time I read it....that he had no intention of letting Joker live, even as a quadriplegic or what have you. He didn't 'sort of' twist his neck...he broke the crap out of it.

Heck, he even spits on the corpse.

Imagine if he had done that on Superman's face. RT's rating would be 2%.

 

[schereZada]

But before that he just kills a guy like if it was nothing.

Who was that? I remember he threw an arrow to those robot gas bomb-children of the Joker's, whatever they were.

I always interpreted that Batman finally had the full intent to kill the Joker (he says/narrates it along the way), and tries to with the neck but he's so sapped of strength from blood loss that the last little bit has to be finished off by Joker. But had he not been so injured, he would have made sure that Joker was dead.

I saw it that way from the first time I read it....that he had no intention of letting Joker live, even as a quadriplegic or what have you. He didn't 'sort of' twist his neck...he broke the crap out of it.

Heck, he even spits on the corpse.

Batman was determined to kill the Joker, that's for sure. And at first the reason why he stops right before killing him is not clear. It could have perfectly been the stabbing and blood loss. But he says "Voices calling me a killer... I wish I were," which makes me think there's something else. Even the Joker laughs at him because he didn't dare finish him.

Batman twisted his neck, but it was Joker who broke it himself ("With a devil's strength... he twists... and twists... What's left of his spine... goes...").

 

[Kobra]

Who was that? I remember he threw an arrow to those robot gas bomb-children of the Joker's, whatever they were.




Batman was determined to kill the Joker, that's for sure. And at first the reason why he stops right before killing him is not clear. It could have perfectly been the stabbing and blood loss. But he says "Voices calling me a killer... I wish I were," which makes me think there's something else. Even the Joker laughs at him because he didn't dare finish him.

Batman twisted his neck, but it was Joker who broke it himself ("With a devil's strength... he twists... and twists... What's left of his spine... goes...").

He electrocuted one gang member, in his first night.

 

[schereZada]

He electrocuted one gang member, in his first night.

That's right.

 

[TDKR1977]

Who was that? I remember he threw an arrow to those robot gas bomb-children of the Joker's, whatever they were.




Batman was determined to kill the Joker, that's for sure. And at first the reason why he stops right before killing him is not clear. It could have perfectly been the stabbing and blood loss. But he says "Voices calling me a killer... I wish I were," which makes me think there's something else. Even the Joker laughs at him because he didn't dare finish him.

Batman twisted his neck, but it was Joker who broke it himself ("With a devil's strength... he twists... and twists... What's left of his spine... goes...").

...whatever's in him rustles and leaves...

 

[Kobra]

So it's interesting that the movie and the book have similar problems in certain aspects.

 

[schereZada]

...whatever's in him rustles and leaves...

t:t:t:

Some fans can hate Miller all they want, he wrote some really good s*** in TDKR.

 

[TDKR1977]

t:t:t:

Some fans can hate Miller all they want, he wrote some really good s*** in TDKR.

He changed Batman, for better or worse, forever.

 

[KalMart]

Who was that? I remember he threw an arrow to those robot gas bomb-children of the Joker's, whatever they were.




Batman was determined to kill the Joker, that's for sure. And at first the reason why he stops right before killing him is not clear. It could have perfectly been the stabbing and blood loss. But he says "Voices calling me a killer... I wish I were," which makes me think there's something else. Even the Joker laughs at him because he didn't dare finish him.

Batman twisted his neck, but it was Joker who broke it himself ("With a devil's strength... he twists... and twists... What's left of his spine... goes...").

Again, I never saw it as 'chickening out', but because he had lost so much blood and strength by that point...and Joker mocks him for it as a sadistic last laugh, 'you couldn't go though with it'...but what, he could go through with leaving him a paralyzed from the neck down, left to die in mere minutes if he didn't strap him to stretcher and airlift him away? Joker simply helped Batman finish the job because he physically couldn't, not because he decided not to.

I'm honestly shocked that people didn't see it that way, this is the first I've ever heard of that. Maybe because they always feel that Batman shouldn't kill in his regular canon...but this particular alternative story, he's been driven to that.

 

[TDKR1977]

Again, I never saw it as 'chickening out', but because he had lost so much blood and strength by that point...and Joker mocks him for it as a sadistic last laugh. Joker simply helped Batman finish the job because he physically couldn't, not because he decided not to.

Exactly. I'm paraphrasing here, but Joker when he's bludgeoning Bats says, "You have gotten old, haven't you?"

 

[TDKR1977]

Who was that? I remember he threw an arrow to those robot gas bomb-children of the Joker's, whatever they were.




Batman was determined to kill the Joker, that's for sure. And at first the reason why he stops right before killing him is not clear. It could have perfectly been the stabbing and blood loss. But he says "Voices calling me a killer... I wish I were," which makes me think there's something else. Even the Joker laughs at him because he didn't dare finish him.

Batman twisted his neck, but it was Joker who broke it himself ("With a devil's strength... he twists... and twists... What's left of his spine... goes...").

And understandably so. He even says to Joker, "all the people I've murdered...by letting you live."

 

[KalMart]

Exactly. I'm paraphrasing here, but Joker when he's bludgeoning Bats says, "You have gotten old, haven't you?"

In the end it doesn't quite matter as much, either way...Batman was there to facilitate the end of Joker in one way or another being in any way able to continue committing crimes. Joker wasn't going back to Arkham.

 

[gdw]

Btw

Why so little Batman scenes? Were they trying to save money or something?

In DKR animated movie the sequence of scenes when Batman comes back is amazing and would look great in a live action film.

Oh, smack me, something like that would have been amazing as an extension of his first scene in the movie. Actually seeing him do his "investigation" of more people, rather then just the police scene.

Also would have added some of the action missing from the first 2/3rds of the film.

 

[gdw]

Interesting note, watching the animated adaptation of TDKR right now, with my wife and I after the kidnapped kid scene, I mentioned that the comic I different.

In the adaptation, Batman shoots the Mutant in the hand, disarming them.

She asked how it was different, so I showed her the scene in the book:

I asked her what she thought; she said she didn't see the difference.

I asked her what happened in the movie, an she said he shot the Mutant in the hand, an due dropped the gun.

Same question for the book, first thing she says is "he shot him in the head, then h- oh. . ."

(Side note, in the animated version, things like this indicate he's not killing people in this version. You can also shock people with out killing them, merely knocking them out.)

I mentioned the ambiguity in the interpretation amongst people.

She said "Oh." Then went back to watching the movie.


***Edit
I wonder what she'll say about BvS's "version" of this scene.

We're watching the animated adaptation of TDKR right now, MOS tomorrow night, and then her first time seeing BvS Friday night.

Sounds like the perfect way to lead into BvS. Oh, and she suggested it. Man I love her.

 

[gdw]

*** edit
Redundant post

 

[gdw]

He electrocuted one gang member, in his first night.

???

 

[matt47]

throwing him into a sign?

 

[Kobra]

throwing him into a sign?

Yeah, he just kills the guy.

 

[TDKR1977]

Let's not forget he encouraged a suicide.