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Batman's fighting style

The Question said:
I'd say Grant because Grant was a vigilante and later a special forces operative for the military. He knows how to street fight. He knows what's most practical for that stuff. He'd teach Bruce a combination of Boxing, Judo, and CQC. It'd take him 'bout two years to become really good at. Less if he's dedicated. Then, through the course of the story, he meets with Ducard at a charity event. Realizing that, somehow, he wants to use his skills to help people, he trains with Ducard to be a detective. Eventually, while on a case, Bruce meets Ra's, who's Ducard's client at the time. Bruce, over thge next year or so, learns stealth techniques, sword fighting, and staff fighting from Ra's. That leads to later plot points I'd use.



Oh, I just saw that. It'd be cool if that stuff actually works, and hell, it may somewhere. But that particular guy's obviously a fraud.
Seems like a rational chain of events... far too rational for the demi-god Batman has become, but who I keep on reading anyway.
Anyway, the fact this whole "no touch knock out" thing turned out to be bunk when a skinny scientist decided he didn't believe in it (or because his tongue/toes were in the wrong position...:rolleyes: ), could tend to shed some light on the earlier example of master kung fu's mind games. It only works because students are so convinced it'll work.
 
Qoèlet said:
Seems like a rational chain of events... far too rational for the demi-god Batman has become, but who I keep on reading anyway.

Pretty much. But, given the chance, that's how I'd write an Ultimate Batman story.

Qoèlet said:
Anyway, the fact this whole "no touch knock out" thing turned out to be bunk when a skinny scientist decided he didn't believe in it (or because his tongue/toes were in the wrong position...:rolleyes: ), could tend to shed some light on the earlier example of master kung fu's mind games. It only works because students are so convinced it'll work.

Basically. And hell, I'm not completely against the idea that psychic/supernatural abilities may be possible. But that guy was most definately a fraud.
 
The Question said:
Basically. And hell, I'm not completely against the idea that psychic/supernatural abilities may be possible. But that guy was most definately a fraud.

Yea...he does not exactly have a way to prove that....and the whole bullcrap about that guy not getting knocked out because he did not believe is bullcrap.

Even if somehow Batman knew of that technique...obviously his criminals/villains would not even be aware of the technique...so how would it work on them cause they cannot believe something they are un-aware of.
 
The Question said:
See? Military teaches pressure points. All Batman would have needed to do was hire someone with alot of military combat experiance, and learn how to fight from him. Now, I'm with the understanding that military hand to hand combat training is designed to be learned very quickly. Am I correct?



Yeah that may have been easier, but I like the issues where he's learning from ninja and other martial arts masters. Its of the reasons I like Batman so much and other comic heros/villians who did that too. I've always thought ninjas were real cool.
 
The Question said:
Well, who says he's lightly touching them? For all we know, he may be applying alot of pressure. And there are nerve clusters that, if the right amount of pressure is applied to them, causes someone to be paralyzed or to pass out.


Yeah, Daredevil was talking about how he learned over time how to do that in the last issue.
 
Chris Wallace said:
But Batman's Also The Most Non-conventional Martial Artist. The Only Time He Employs Anything Remotely Resembling A Traditional Martial Arts Stance Or Technique Is When He's Up Against Someone W/real Training.


When Bruce Lee began his own style of fighting he used the non stance technique.
 
Kool-Aid...double posting for what you were doing is understandable...but not triple posting...you could have just editted your previous post(s) since they have been the most recent; except for my post now.
 
Kool-Aid said:
Yeah that may have been easier, but I like the issues where he's learning from ninja and other martial arts masters. Its of the reasons I like Batman so much and other comic heros/villians who did that too. I've always thought ninjas were real cool.


So, basically you like the quasi mystical apeal of training with old asien guys in tibet rather than doing it practically.
 
The Question said:
So, basically you like the quasi mystical apeal of training with old asien guys in tibet rather than doing it practically.


Nah, more like ninja masters in Japan or Kung Fu Masters in Asia like Pi Mai(sp?) who rip out peoples eyeballs. Good stuff:up: :)

Trivia time: Did you know the Dali Lama hired a ninja master as the head of security? Here he is http://www.skhquest.com/


I read a few of his books there good.
 
Kool-Aid said:
Nah, more like ninja masters in Japan or Kung Fu Masters in Asia like Pi Mai(sp?) who rip out peoples eyeballs. Good stuff:up: :)

So, the quasi mystical apeal. Ninjas and Kung Fu masters in the high mountains of Asia are good. But you can find people just as skilled in the good ol' U.S. of A.
 
The Question said:
So, the quasi mystical apeal. Ninjas and Kung Fu masters in the high mountains of Asia are good. But you can find people just as skilled in the good ol' U.S. of A.

My cousin used to be either the best or second best Karate fighter in the US not too long ago. He has gone down in rank though I believe since he does not practice as much since he goes to Film School.
 
The Question said:
So, the quasi mystical apeal. Ninjas and Kung Fu masters in the high mountains of Asia are good. But you can find people just as skilled in the good ol' U.S. of A.


I know, I just like the stories where he's going on trips to Asia to learn with masters. Just like I like when Daredevil learned ninja techniques. Plus I think if he was to learn with a ninja that'd be better for the stuff he does. Unless he trains with a special agent that was in the CIA or somthing. I'm sure they can't even teach he as much as far as chi power techniques though or the kinda awarness they have, such as remote viewing ect.. Ninjitsu has been practiced and modfied for centurys they gotta know more.
 
Kool-Aid said:
I know, I just like the stories where he's going on trips to Asia to learn with masters. Just like I like when Daredevil learned ninja techniques.

From an old homeless guy in New York.

Kool-Aid said:
Plus I think if he was to learn with a ninja that'd be better for the stuff he does. Unless he trains with a special agent that was in the CIA or somthing. I'm sure they can't even teach he as much as far as chi power techniques or the kinda awarness they have, such as remote viewing ect..

Ummm, the CIA employs remote veiwers for special operations. And I'm fairly certain most ninjas don't have chi powers. In fact, I've heard of very few ninjas who have chi powers. Ninjas started out simnply as vigilantes in rural Japanese villaiges who used stealth and guerilla tactics to defend their villaiges against corrupt samurai. They weren't magical. Batman would not need to train with ninja clans in the mountains of asia to learn what he need. Hell, I'm not even sure if there are any ninja clans in the mountains of asia anymore.

Kool-Aid said:
Ninjitsu has been practiced and modfied for centurys they gotta know more.

No, they don't. The government may be full of self serving burocrats, but the military are pros. If ninjas have perfected stealth techniques over several centuries, the military's probably got them down aswell. And, the CIA and FBI employ and train psychics, so it's not like their unfamiliar with the "chi power" stuff either.
 
Daredevil may have learned a lot from stick, but not everything Matt knows about fighting is from him and stick wasn't just a homeless guy. Check stick's back story for that. And I think there are things about martial arts that the government has not covered.
 
The Question said:
From an old homeless guy in New York.

He was still a ninja master. Regardless.....I like what I like.



The Question said:
Ummm, the CIA employs remote veiwers for special operations. And I'm fairly certain most ninjas don't have chi powers. In fact, I've heard of very few ninjas who have chi powers. Ninjas started out simnply as vigilantes in rural Japanese villaiges who used stealth and guerilla tactics to defend their villaiges against corrupt samurai. They weren't magical. Batman would not need to train with ninja clans in the mountains of asia to learn what he need. Hell, I'm not even sure if there are any ninja clans in the mountains of asia anymore.

I know they do, but they are certin factions that do not all who are trained agents do it. Plus don't you think the CIA might keep tabs on there former employes and wonder what the deal is with this rich kid training with all them? Don't you see how what they did using stealth and guerilla tactics to defend their villaiges against corrupt samurai kinda goes hand and hand with what Batmans doing? Why not go learn with them? Plus I know they can'yt teach him all the spirtual techniques and what not. Weather they were or weren't magical is up foer debate. I can't comment on the extent of there magical practices cuz I don't know hoe deep it was, but they did practice magic.



The Question said:
No, they don't. The government may be full of self serving burocrats, but the military are pros. If ninjas have perfected stealth techniques over several centuries, the military's probably got them down aswell. And, the CIA and FBI employ and train psychics, so it's not like their unfamiliar with the "chi power" stuff either.


Well neither of us can really say. Unless your a Ninjutsu master who also works for the CIA ect.......wait are you?:eek: I seriously doubt they employ the chi techniques. When have you seen someone in the military do this crazy **** with a spear?http://yarnyeetong.com/images/kungfu_chikung2.jpg Ninjas gotta know a thing or 2. I mena the Dali Lama hired them.


If you wanna learn about ninjutsu I suggest buying this. http://shopping.discovery.com/product-56036.html

Or read this. I don't feel like going into detail of what they do. So here it is.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjutsu Plus I'm postitive they do more....because their art is kept in strict codes of secrecy.

Here's more reading for you or whoever:

http://www.onlinedojo.ca/Style Directory/History/Ninjutsu.htm
http://www.winjutsu.com/
http://www.kihon.com/ninpo/
http://www.fighttimes.com/magazine/magazine.asp?article=149
http://www.american-ninjutsu.com/classes.shtml
 
Kool-Aid said:
He was still a ninja master. Regardless.....I like what I like.

Fine. Whatever.

Kool-Aid said:
I know they do, but they are certin factions that do not all who are trained agents do it.

And not all ninjas have chi powers. In fact, very few do to my knowlege.

Kool-Aid said:
Plus don't you think the CIA might keep tabs on there former employes and wonder what the deal is with this rich kid training with all them?

What do you mean "all them?" He'd only need to train with one guy. ANd it wouldn't even have to be a CIA guy. Former marine or special forces guy would probably be good enough.

Kool-Aid said:
Don't you see how what they did using stealth and guerilla tactics to defend their villaiges against corrupt samurai kinda goes hand and hand with what Batmans doing?

So does training with former special forces types. I don't have a problem with him learning stealth from ninja types. But he wouldn't need to leave the country to do it.

Kool-Aid said:
Why not go learn with them? Plus I know they can'yt teach him all the spirtual techniques and what not. Weather they were or weren't magical is up foer debate. I can't comment on the extent of there magical practices cuz I don't know hoe deep it was, but they did practice magic.

No, they didn't. They just used guerilla tactics. Listen, ninjas would be fine to learn from. But they wouldn't be any better than special forces types.

Kool-Aid said:
Well neither of us can really say. Unless your a Ninjutsu master who also works for the CIA ect.......wait are you?:eek: I seriously doubt they employ the chi techniques.

And I doubt many ninjas employ chi techniques. The real world ain't Naruto, my friend. Most ninjas I know of don't have fancy mind powers.

Kool-Aid said:
When have you seen someone in the military do this crazy **** with a spear?http://yarnyeetong.com/images/kungfu_chikung2.jpg Ninjas gotta know a thing or 2. I mena the Dali Lama hired them.

Doesn't mean they're the end all be all of fighting. Special forces types would be just as good.
 
I think special forces are good with weapons tactics, like guns. But take the guns away and ninjas would definetly take them down.

And well off the subject a little who is better trained a Navy SEAL or a CIA agent? just if anyone know.
 
1) Special forces guys are definately trained in hand to hand. Probably as well as ninjas, if not better since ninjas don't generally have anywhere near the resources that special forces agents have.

2) SEALs take it. They're in the feild way more. And their training is ****ing intense.
 
A homeless guy that is king of martial arts.....that actually sounds pretty ****in awesome.
 
Well, he wasn't the king of martial arts. But he was damned good. From what I understand, Stick was born on the streets of New York, blind. He lewarned how to cope with it and surive on the streets, and became an acomplished fighter. He eventually met up with a clan of ni jas, who helped him hone his skills. SUpposedly, he was the reincarnation of one of their greatest members. Eventually, he ended up training Daredevil.
 
From what I've read, the ninja's specialty is stealth, long-range & sneak attacks, not direct combat. Their hand-to-hand was relatively poor, contrary to what the movies would have you believe.
 
Yeah. Like I said, the origional ninjas relied heavily on guerilla warfare tactics. As for Daredevil's hand to hand, I think Daredevil's combat proficiency comes from learning the basics of boxing by watching his dad train and imitating him, and also that Stick was a profficient street fighter without the ninjitsu training and passed that to Matt.
 
On the subject on ninjitsu "Chi powers:"

From the information I've gleaned, one of the bigger advantages ninjas had over samurai (aside from way more practical equipment and tactics centuries ahead of its time) wasn't that they had any sort of supernatural abilities, but that they were able to convince enemies that they did. Some would wear spiked cleats on their feet and hands, which allowed them to climb sheer walls, or catch incoming sword strikes. This would give them the illusion of having superhuman strength or agility. They are also said to have colored their clothing in red dye to mask the color of blood when they were cut, giving them the illusion of being invincible.

Such clever trickery could also lead to people's imaginations getting the better of them; if ninjas were capable of scaling walls without ropes, catching swords with their bare hands, and being struck without bleeding, what else could they do? So I'd have to guess that most of the stories of ninjas having any sort of supernatural powers were either carefully crafted illusions or simple urban legend.

(Though the CIA has been known to employ remote viewers and psychics, which does potentially validate the argument. Still, there's a difference between psychics and "Chi")

Also, regarding ninja clans roaming the Asian continent, there aren't any. Ninjitsu is still being practiced by many, but the last actual ninjas died off in the late ninteenth/early twentieth century, not long after the Samurai were wiped out. They had mainly served as bodyguards for the Shogun for the last century or so of their existence (to eliminate them as a "wild card" in the clashes between feudal lords), and when Japan began to modernize, there was simply no need for them. Since then, modern special ops groups have taken many of the ninjitsu techniques and adapted them for modern warfare. Simply put, ninjas were ahead of their time way back when, but now they're obsolete.

Chris Wallace said:
From what I've read, the ninja's specialty is stealth, long-range & sneak attacks, not direct combat. Their hand-to-hand was relatively poor, contrary to what the movies would have you believe.

Not true. Ninjas were more adept at disguise and mimickry, more focused on "hiding in plain sight" than sneaking around in the shadows. And if they were discovered, their method of combat was made specifically to exploit the weaknesses of the Samurai's technique, through confusing movements, hidden weapons, etc. In a straight confrontation between a ninja and a samurai, the ninja would more than likely win.

I could go on a whole rant about how ineffective the samurai really were and how the romanticized view of them is based mostly off of confrontations with other samurai instead of any sort of foreign or modernized opponent, but that's another argument for another day.
 

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