The Dark Knight Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Crook]

Looking at those images, it pretty obvious that the 300/Sin City route might very well be the best way to properly deliver the stunning, stylized, fantasy visuals that plenty of fans have come to expect from Batman.

That artwork...wow, just wow.

Judging by how many people seemed to be pleased as punch with Nolan's take on Batman, it leaves me wondering would those same people have an aversion to a Batman film done 300/Sin City style? Would a stylized Batman in a costume made in a similar fashion to Supes and Spidey require to much of a suspension in belief from general audiences?

I don't get the 300/Sin City comparisons when bringing the fabric suit into the equation. Those pics look nothing like those highly stylized graphic novels. Do ya'll mean green screen backgrounds? I don't see why that specific method would be needed to bring the comic book pages to life.

...or would general audiences embrace such a film just as they have other well made fantasy films?

As long as it's well-made, of course they'll accept. Batman is no exception to any other fantasy character. I've always appreciated the grounded aspects of the character, but in hindsight, I would not let that get in the way of the visual elements and character traits of the mythology.

 

[Phaser]

Edit

 

[Phaser]

Because he was clearly far more skilled than the average physical combatant, as he was depicted most of the time in the comics.

But again, wasn't it already established long before B89 that Batman was an expert martial artist, contrary to your claim that it is a fairly newly introduced aspect of the character? And like I said before, even today's comics don't generally show him pulling off roundhouse and flying kicks all the time. If you read even the latest Detective Comics, he won't exactly look like someone who's one of the world's deadliest martial artists, but that doesn't mean he isn't.

Right. But he wasn't FIGHTING Shiva, Ra's Al Ghul or any of those. He was fighting Bob The Goon. And he used his martial skills to kick Bob's ass. My point is, he didn't need to fight with crazy martial arts skills because he was up against common thugs for the most part. That's why using ninjas in BATMAN BEGINS was a smart move. It gave Batman a reason to rise to that level.

Your arguments falls completely flat when I bring up the example of the black thug who completely wipes the floor with him. That was a good time to show his "elite" kung fu skills, wouldn't you agree? I wonder why didn't.

I don't deny it. Although so did Keaton's stunt suits. I would imagine most of the suits you see "action" in during BEGINS are just that, stunt suits.

Same goes for B89.

Can you cite an example of what you mean by Batman being "fast and agile" from the 70's and 80's?

How about Batman swinging across rooftops using his grapple? Or him fighting the likes of Ra's and Shiva? It shows that he is far more skilled than he was in B89, where some hired goon completely steamrolls over him.

I will agree that Batman didn't move quite as "acrobatically" as he often did in the comics, but he still seemed fairly fast an agile in BATMAN.

I suppose in your twisted perspective of the character it is okay for Batman to get himself hopelessly pounded by some random black grunt. "Fairly fast and agile" my ass.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "incredibly nimble, fast, and athletic". I can think of several sequences where he appeared just that, namely the swordfighting sequence and several of the cathedral sequences. Again, he was utilizing very presentational, very efficient fighting in some sequences, and he wasn't doing the whole "multiple blows then breaking someone's arm" style because he didn't really have to.

He doesn't do so in Begins either. In fact, if you take into account the whole sequence with the two-sword goon, B89's Batman was comparatively a less efficient fighter. And you and I both know the whole "he didn't use martial arts because he didn't really have to" excuse is a load of crap when you take into account the Cathedral fight.

I mean, Bale's Batman just kind of *****slaps the common thugs when he has time to.

I'm sure it might surprise you, but Bale's Batman was a lot more efficient fighter than Keaton's. He took out more than a dozen of Crane and Falcone's thugs, four ninjas and two supervillains (Ra's and his decoy). Compared to that, Keaton's Batman's bodycount is abysmal.

Don't confuse my argument with his.

It is downright ******ed for you to tell me "don't confuse my argument with his" when you needlessly replied to arguments that weren't addressed to you without having a bloody clue about the context in which I made those points. If you're going to be someone else's mouthpiece, then make sure you and him are coming from the same place.

True. Two characters who appeared rather rarely, and who Batman fought hand to hand with even less. Regardless, Batman wasnt fighting those people in BATMAN. he was fighting common thugs. And just as he did in the comics, he didn't feel the need showboat or showcase his "moves", he just used what he knew to take them down appropriately.

I'm not talking about him being a showboat. He most certainly was in B89 (like you said, "presentational"). I'm talking about him lacking the adequate combat and athletic skills we expect from the character and the instance of the black goon smacking him all over the place is proof of that.

That he was depicted as being good. I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that he didnt utilize the same level of martial arts in the comics that he does now, and that at the time, comic book Batman fought a lot more simply than he does today against the common crook.

But the black goon wasn't a common crook now, was he? Why didn't Batman unleash his extraordinary fighting prowess against him? Wait don't tell me, because he didn't have to.

I'm not sure what this is reference to. Can you elaborate?

Forget it. Explaining it is too much trouble. Just check my last post where I quoted you.

 

[BubbaGump]

Can someone post the Batsuit pic from Wizard or PM it to me? The one where Bale is gazing at it.

 

[DorkyFresh]

 

[thegameq]

I don't get the 300/Sin City comparisons when bringing the fabric suit into the equation. Those pics look nothing like those highly stylized graphic novels. Do ya'll mean green screen backgrounds? I don't see why that specific method would be needed to bring the comic book pages to life.


As long as it's well-made, of course they'll accept. Batman is no exception to any other fantasy character. I've always appreciated the grounded aspects of the character, but in hindsight, I would not let that get in the way of the visual elements and character traits of the mythology.

From the standpoint of visual representation--the stylized dynamic that is Batman and his world. Of course it isn't the only route to go, but I believe it may be the best.

The fabric costume goes hand and hand with the fantasy and stylization of Batman. In such, less thinking is required for explanation--none is asked for in as much--there the character is what he is and meant to be. Explanation.....while a bonus is not necessary. He is Batman, a sullen wraith-like figure. Perched gargoyle like atop the eaves of Gotham's spires.

His skill, so adept at his mission, that his prey has neither the chance nor opportunity to take a shot at him....apprehended, they gaze into the cold-hot glare of his approaching silhouette--VAMPIRE, DEMON-CREATURE OF THE NIGHT.

Fantasy.

Could it work in Nolan's world...not really, I don't see it. I've said before in other posts that all Nolan needs for his film(s) is the visual style we have come to expect from Batman. But in doing so would begin to lean his film away from it's realistic undertones and moreso towards a stylized fantasy.

 

[Conebone69]

ITS TOO BULKY! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE HE CAN MOVE FAST IN 30lbs OF RUBBER!

Too bulky? Its not bulky at all. If anything its too scrony looking

 

[jimmy]

Nope.
The buckle is a mystery to me, but all of the pouches on the Dead End belt are handcuff pouches. I have two of them on my duty belt as we speak.
BTW, do you have some sort of automatic editor that randomly capitalizes your text, or is that something you do on your own?

The obvious answer for this is that I'm the best.

Also: I still can't believe you guys are arguing over this stuff! BWAHAHAHAH!

 

[BubbaGump]

Yuh yuh yuh.

 

[Conebone69]

Can someone PM me the leaked pic cuz im on a different comp

 

[Conebone69]

The back of the suit looks so sick

 

[DorkyFresh]

The suit looks so sick

fixed t:

 

[Mr. Socko]

Use the box that says: "MAGNUM SIZE"

Indeed.

Actually I know they investigated it and rejected it for Batman Begins.

Oh my mistake. I didn't know a fabric type suit was researched. But I can see why they did not go with it.

 

[Super Kal]

in all fairness, I would of rather seen this

 

[The Guard]

But again, wasn't it already established long before B89 that Batman was an expert martial artist, contrary to your claim that it is a fairly newly introduced aspect of the character? And like I said before, even today's comics don't generally show him pulling off roundhouse and flying kicks all the time. If you read even the latest Detective Comics, he won't exactly look like someone who's one of the world's deadliest martial artists, but that doesn't mean he isn't.

But this is my point...he doesn't always resemble the world's deadliest martial artist. Even in the comics. Especially when fighting average thugs.

Your arguments falls completely flat when I bring up the example of the black thug who completely wipes the floor with him. That was a good time to show his "elite" kung fu skills, wouldn't you agree? I wonder why didn't.

What exactly do you want him to do, moveswise? That guy was an ox. Batman was on the defensive for much of that scene, and for good reason. He ended up victorious, and he did so with cunning, as he's often done in the comic books.

How about Batman swinging across rooftops using his grapple?

A move which we haven't seen even in BEGINS, or anything close to this in any Batman film except Schumacher's. What does that tell you about that particular sort of movement?

Or him fighting the likes of Ra's and Shiva? It shows that he is far more skilled than he was in B89, where some hired goon completely steamrolls over him.

Right, but I'm asking for specific examples. Key fights. What kind of skills did he show in them? What specific moves did he use?

I suppose in your twisted perspective of the character it is okay for Batman to get himself hopelessly pounded by some random black grunt. "Fairly fast and agile" my ass.

So that's all he is to you? A BLACK grunt?

Batman's been beat on before in the comics. He was in a plane crash and had just climbed quite a few stairs, so I tend to cut him some slack during that sequence. Plus it's cool as hell on several levels.

He doesn't do so in Begins either. In fact, if you take into account the whole sequence with the two-sword goon, B89's Batman was comparatively a less efficient fighter.

Never said Batman in BATMAN was more efficient than Batman in BEGINS. Never even implied it. I'm glad they made him even more efficient and gave him more thugs to fight.

And you and I both know the whole "he didn't use martial arts because he didn't really have to" excuse is a load of crap when you take into account the Cathedral fight.

He did use martial arts. He just didn't use anything other than basic karate.

I'm sure it might surprise you, but Bale's Batman was a lot more efficient fighter than Keaton's. He took out more than a dozen of Crane and Falcone's thugs, four ninjas and two supervillains (Ra's and his decoy). Compared to that, Keaton's Batman's bodycount is abysmal.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I welcome it. Never said otherwise.

It is downright ******ed for you to tell me "don't confuse my argument with his" when you needlessly replied to arguments that weren't addressed to you without having a bloody clue about the context in which I made those points. If you're going to be someone else's mouthpiece, then make sure you and him are coming from the same place.

This is a discussion, I'm not attacking your personally. I'm not spouting his argument for him, I'm making my own points in response to your statements. This is a public messageboard, and I have the right to do so. If you can't keep the arguments straight, then just respond to the points. That's the basis behind a debate anyway.

I'm not talking about him being a showboat. He most certainly was in B89 (like you said, "presentational"). I'm talking about him lacking the adequate combat and athletic skills we expect from the character and the instance of the black goon smacking him all over the place is proof of that.

But the black goon wasn't a common crook now, was he? Why didn't Batman unleash his extraordinary fighting prowess against him? Wait don't tell me, because he didn't have to.

How should I know why Batman didn't just tell the man his shoelace was untied and then slug him one?

Hmm...because the guy was huge, and clearly wasn't just going to go down if he was hit/kicked (Since Batman DID kick him, and the fellow was like a brick wall)? Because Batman had just been involved in a plane crash and was already injured? Because the director wanted some element of suspense and danger to the movie? It's the same reason he let the Gothamites swarm him in BEGINS.

 

[Phaser]

But this is my point...he doesn't always resemble the world's deadliest martial artist. Even in the comics. Especially when fighting average thugs.

Just because artists don't bother to explicitly show him as kung fu master doesn't mean he isn't. He has been one since long before B89.

What exactly do you want him to do, moveswise? That guy was an ox. Batman was on the defensive for much of that scene, and for good reason. He ended up victorious, and he did so with cunning, as he's often done in the comic books.

He wasn't any larger than some random overgrown thug. And if Batman can be knocked around by some oversized hired muscle, then he isn't really a true martial artist now is he?

A move which we haven't seen even in BEGINS, or anything close to this in any Batman film except Schumacher's. What does that tell you about that particular sort of movement?

At the docks, he uses the grapple extensively, such as when he swings by to spook one of Falcone's thugs and then comes upside down right behind him. Pay more attention.

Right, but I'm asking for specific examples. Key fights. What kind of skills did he show in them? What specific moves did he use?

Again, just because artists can't be bothered to draw Batman using specific martial arts moves doesn't mean he isn't one. The difference should be obvious to anyone with some degree of intelligence.

So that's all he is to you? A BLACK grunt?

Didn't seem like much else to me. And his style was little more than bullish street fighting.

Batman's been beat on before in the comics.

How many times by a random thug?

He was in a plane crash and had just climbed quite a few stairs, so I tend to cut him some slack during that sequence. Plus it's cool as hell on several levels.

Yeah, he sure as hell wasn't shaky enough to stop acting cocky with the goons he took out before the black dude pounded the senses out of him.

He did use martial arts. He just didn't use anything other than basic karate.

So how does that make him that much more skilled compared to your average action hero of the 80's? John Matrix took out dozens of cops, security guys and ex-special forces guys using hand to hand combat in Commando. And Batman couldn't even conventionally beat one overgrown thug.

This is a discussion, I'm not attacking your personally. I'm not spouting his argument for him, I'm making my own points in response to your statements. This is a public messageboard, and I have the right to do so. If you can't keep the arguments straight, then just respond to the points. That's the basis behind a debate anyway.

Of course you have the "right". Doesn't make you right though. Like I said, my reply was in response to the arguments made by GoogleMe94. That's your problem, Guard. You generally fail to grasp the context in which statements you are replying to were made in. That's why I posted that bit about what exactly me and GoogleMe94 were arguing about, which was on completely different points. Of course, you dismissing it completely shows you like living in your own warped little world.

How should I know why Batman didn't just tell the man his shoelace was untied and then slug him one?

Right. You don't know. So shut up, instead of making inane arguments like "oh Batman was a real martial artist in B89, he just didn't use it because he didn't have to".

Hmm...because the guy was huge, and clearly wasn't just going to go down if he was hit/kicked (Since Batman DID kick him, and the fellow was like a brick wall)?

Yeah, he kicked him on his lower shoulder, instead of someplace vulnerable where he'd actually feel it. Hardly a trait of a skilled martial artist who knows where and when to strike to dish out maximum pain.

Because Batman had just been involved in a plane crash and was already injured?

He climbed up the stairs of a cathedral and was looking mighty focused and pissed when he got up there. Not to mention cocky. Like when he pulled that whatever thingmajig out of his hand to take out that goon who jumped at him. He wasn't shaky, limping or disoriented like someone who is injured to the point he can't fight properly.

Because the director wanted some element of suspense and danger to the movie? It's the same reason he let the Gothamites swarm him in BEGINS.

He could've done it without having Batman smacked around like a clueless buffoon by some random thug.

 

[Conebone69]

in all fairness, I would of rather seen this

I totally want a scene of this in the movie

 

[Nightwing1977]

Like this?

Oh god!! Clark look fat in that outfit. That why the cloth look like the comic is not a good idea beside the look there. Also, Alex Ross is terrible drawing Batman. He make him look fat & the emblem too large. Also, the belt on Clark look too big, that Bat shouldn't have big ass belt like that. Again, that look crap so you can see not everyone want the comic book look in real life.

 

[slevinkelevra]

wow, it is bash city on here.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

The aesthetics of the B89 suit are pretty much useless when compared to the improved functionality of the BB suit. You want a Batman who can just stand there and look good, instead of being a lithe, agile "creature of the night" (your words) that can take out entire groups of thugs and ninjas within seconds.

But Batman LOOKS cool in the burton movies. He looks stupid in the Nolan movies.

You can't seen Bale fighting in BB anyway. Its too dark. And the editing is ****e.
Better to make batman look the part.

 

[Phaser]

But Batman LOOKS cool in the burton movies. He looks stupid in the Nolan movies.

You can't seen Bale fighting in BB anyway. Its too dark. And the editing is ****e.
Better to make batman look the part.

Again, you'd rather have a Batman who just stands there and looks good instead of one who can actually do all the things he is supposed to i.e, kick unholy amounts of ass and demolish entire groups of enemies within seconds? That's cool.

Oh and check back a few pages - I've already proven that the complaints about the fight scenes in Begins are way exaggerated. Sure, the editing wasn't exactly the best, but anyone who says that you "couldn't see anything" during the fights is either blind or dumb. The fights are certainly clear enough to the point that you can at least make out what is going on.

 

[DorkyFresh]

But Batman LOOKS cool in the burton movies. He looks stupid in the Nolan movies.

the opinion of the minority...

 

[Ryudoz]

the opinion of the minority...

... doesn't make it any less valid.

I would have liked to have been able to see the action more in BB, but I respect Nolan's desire to give us the audience the same feeling that those Batman was beating on was getting.

 

[Phaser]

... doesn't make it any less valid.

Likewise, doesn't make it any more valid than that of those who think Batman looked great in BB either.

 

[Ryudoz]

Likewise, doesn't make it any more valid than that of those who think Batman looked great in BB either.

Of course not. Both sides are just as valid. I wasn't trying to say it was moreso, but to say that just because it's in the perceived minority doesn't make it obsolete.