Best 3rd movie in a SH franchise?

[The Sarge]

X3 I was expecting to be bad because of all the leaked stuff (cyclops dying and al that came out early) as well as the change in creative teams.
Spider-man 3 I was expecting to be good though. I a lot of faith after the first 2, and it was the same people.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And anybody with half a brain knows that Spider-Man 3 is the worst of those two movies...and I don't care what the poll or the box office dollars says.

Yeah, god forbid people have a differing opinion than you . Half a brain? Come on man grow up.

Both the fans and critics said that Spiderman 3 was better than X3, get over it.

 

[Majik1387]

Pay no attention to the guy who still won't answer the simple question.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I think i'll take your advice on that one Majik.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Pay no attention to the guy who still won't answer the simple question.

For the record I apologize for the "half a brain" comment, that was uncalled for and I just got caught up in the moment, my fault, I apologize and just to let you both know I really do appreciate the discussion and the debate.

But what question are you referring to that I haven't answered?

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Both the fans and critics said that Spiderman 3 was better than X3, get over it.

Just because the majority says so doesn't make it the right choice. The majority of the people voted George W. Bush to a 2nd term..and he may potentially go down as the most unpopular President in presidential history.

 

[Majik1387]

For the record I apologize for the "half a brain" comment, that was uncalled for and I just got caught up in the moment, my fault, I apologize and just to let you both know I really do appreciate the discussion and the debate.

But what question are you referring to that I haven't answered?

I didn't even realize there was a half a brain comment.

You still never answered directly why Phoenix didn't disintegrate Wolverine. You said she tried persuading him to join her, which I didn't really see, but even if she did, he turned her down obviously. Even at the finale before he was able to get a word in, she was able to do it, but she didn't.

I'm still waiting for the answer that makes sense within the story of the movie.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

You still never answered directly why Phoenix didn't disintegrate Wolverine. You said she tried persuading him to join her, which I didn't really see, but even if she did, he turned her down obviously.

Okay I understand what you're asking and I'm going to try to give an answer,...and this answer only applies to why it didn't just obliterate him in the mansion in the medical room or in the forest during Magneto's little pep rally.

If you have a gun in your pocket and you go out this weekend and you meet someone at the local bar or nightclub that you're interested in, you approach that person and that person is not responsive to your advances...are you gonna feel compelled to pull your gun out and kill that person?

Just because you own a gun it doesn't mean you feel the need to use it, you use it to protect yourself or to protect someone else,....unless you're just using it for personal gain.... or just flat out evil. The Phoenix is not out for personal gain nor was the Phoenix ever described as an evil being, it's not out to kill and destroy and take over the world, it has nothing to prove.... it just wants to survive.

Xavier said that the Phoenix is "a purely instinctual creature, all desire, joy and rage,..he (nor did anyone else) ever describe the Phoenix...as evil. Wolverine is that element that appealed to the Phoenix's desire which is also that side that appealed to Jean, the Phoenix knows that Jean loves Scott, but the Phoenix also knows that there's something about Wolverine that appeals to Jeans desire, and it's Jean's desire for Logan that the Phoenix tried to exploit and entice on that lab table, it tried to appeal to the side of Wolverine that is a purely instinctual creature, all desire, joy, and rage, that side of Wolverine that is the animal, that part of him that would be responsive to it's own similar instinct and desire. You guys are asking why didn't it kill Wolverine and my answer is why would it kill Wolverine? It saw no need to kill him, although Jean may desire Wolverine, Jean doesn't love Wolverine and the Phoenix knows this, Wolverine was not perceived to be a threat to it's existence,...Scott and Xavier were.

Even at the finale before he was able to get a word in, she was able to do it, but she didn't.

This scene could have been shot better, I interpret this scene at the end where Wolverine was walking towards it the Phoenix was indeed trying to kill him, it was just filmed in a way that only showed his healing factor regenerating the wounds that it was inflicting upon him, I do agree that it could have been filmed better to better indicate that he was able to get that close because Jean was struggling to regain control therefore weakening the Phoenix's attack, obviously Jean was fighting to regain control but they just didn't show it until she spoke and said "save me".

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

For the record I apologize for the "half a brain" comment, that was uncalled for and I just got caught up in the moment, my fault, I apologize and just to let you both know I really do appreciate the discussion and the debate.

But what question are you referring to that I haven't answered?

Apology accepted, now lets just forget that happened .

Just because the majority says so doesn't make it the right choice. The majority of the people voted George W. Bush to a 2nd term..and he may potentially go down as the most unpopular President in presidential history.

But in this case, the majority are right, BOTH critics and fans think Spidey 3 is better, its not definitive, but honestly, what more evidence do you need. In the majority of people's opinion (which is all this is remember, not facts) Spiderman 3 is the better movie. Oh and this is a fact, Raimi is 1000 times the director that Ratner is.

Okay I understand what you're asking and I'm going to try to give an answer,...and this answer only applies to why it didn't just obliterate him in the mansion in the medical room or in the forest during Magneto's little pep rally.

If you have a gun in your pocket and you go out this weekend and you meet someone at the local bar or nightclub that you're interested in, you approach that person and that person is not responsive to your advances...are you gonna feel compelled to pull your gun out and kill that person?

Just because you own a gun it doesn't mean you feel the need to use it, you use it to protect yourself or to protect someone else,....unless you're just using it for personal gain.... or just flat out evil. The Phoenix is not out for personal gain nor was the Phoenix ever described as an evil being, it's not out to kill and destroy and take over the world, it has nothing to prove.... it just wants to survive.

Xavier said that the Phoenix is "a purely instinctual creature, all desire, joy and rage,..he (nor did anyone else) ever describe the Phoenix...as evil. Wolverine is that element that appealed to the Phoenix's desire which is also that side that appealed to Jean, the Phoenix knows that Jean loves Scott, but the Phoenix also knows that there's something about Wolverine that appeals to Jeans desire, and it's Jean's desire for Logan that the Phoenix tried to exploit and entice on that lab table, it tried to appeal to the side of Wolverine that is a purely instinctual creature, all desire, joy, and rage, that side of Wolverine that is the animal, that part of him that would be responsive to it's own similar instinct and desire. You guys are asking why didn't it kill Wolverine and my answer is why would it kill Wolverine? It saw no need to kill him, although Jean may desire Wolverine, Jean doesn't love Wolverine and the Phoenix knows this, Wolverine was not perceived to be a threat to it's existence,...Scott and Xavier were.

Sorry, but you admitted earlier on in the discussion that Wolverine was a threat to her existence, which, he definately was, otherwise Jean would have led someone else to Magneto's hideout, the fact remains, she killed Scott and Xavier, had the exact same reason to kill Wolverine, but didnt, another flaw in a hugely flawed movie that was made for the sole purpose to earn Fox money without the slightest care of what the fans think.

This scene could have been shot better, I interpret this scene at the end where Wolverine was walking towards it the Phoenix was indeed trying to kill him, it was just filmed in a way that only showed his healing factor regenerating the wounds that it was inflicting upon him, I do agree that it could have been filmed better to better indicate that he was able to get that close because Jean was struggling to regain control therefore weakening the Phoenix's attack, obviously Jean was fighting to regain control but they just didn't show it until she spoke and said "save me".

I dont think its a case of being shot better, I saw no conflict in Pheonix, she was trying to kill Logan along with anything else in her vacinity at that point (which also again begs the question, if she was willing to kill Logan here, why didnt she do it earlier?), you even see her straining with effort at one point, and this is The Phoenix, not Jean, Jean only comes to the fore when Logan says "For you." Logan's super-duper healing factor were he healed 20 times faster than he did in previous movies are what saved him and logic was thrown out of the window (The Pheonix cant demolecurise adamantium? Come ON), not Jean.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

That's all I have on my defense for X3, do you guys mind if I switch gears and go on the offensive and start attacking Spider-Man 3 and then you guys can switch up and go on defense and explain to me why you feel it's better than X3?

 

[co2]

X3 I was expecting to be bad because of all the leaked stuff (cyclops dying and al that came out early) as well as the change in creative teams.
Spider-man 3 I was expecting to be good though. I a lot of faith after the first 2, and it was the same people.

I agree that X-men 3 didn't particularly disapoint me, because I had low expectations for it. But Spider-man 3 was highly dispointing because I had so much faith for the exact reasons you stated. That still doesn't change that I feel Spider-man 3 was the best film of that sorry bunch.

 

[Majik1387]

That's all I have on my defense for X3, do you guys mind if I switch gears and go on the offensive and start attacking Spider-Man 3 and then you guys can switch up and go on defense and explain to me why you feel it's better than X3?

Go for it. SM3 was just as bad.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's all I have on my defense for X3, do you guys mind if I switch gears and go on the offensive and start attacking Spider-Man 3 and then you guys can switch up and go on defense and explain to me why you feel it's better than X3?

Go ahead, although I wont be on these boards that much over the next few days, I will try and get back to you as soon as I can on each occasion.

 

[Spoarz™]

In my opinion, the best third film of a comic book franchise is Spider-Man 3.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Seems the majority of people on here feel that way Spoarz, how have you been anyway man, not seen you much since the good old SR days.

 

[Spoarz™]

^ Pretty good thanks dude, yourself? Still fighting the good fight for Superman Returns and Hulk?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^ Pretty good thanks dude, yourself?

I'm fine thanks

^ Still fighting the good fight for Superman Returns and Hulk?

Of course, that wont ever end my friend .

 

[SymbioteKal-El]

No surprise to see Spiderman 3 dominating this thread, it really is the best of a pretty poor bunch. And its the best by some way also, it should be of course, considering the budget it had.

 

[Spoarz™]

Of course, that wont ever end my friend .

That's good to hear buddy.

On a Superman Returns related note, I thought I'd let you know that the latest addition to my fan art thread is a drawing of Brandon Routh I drew recently, in case you're interested in checking it out.

 

[Spoarz™]

No surprise to see Spiderman 3 dominating this thread, it really is the best of a pretty poor bunch. And its the best by some way also, it should be of course, considering the budget it had.

Despite its many flaws, I believe Spider-Man 3 has some of the best moments of the trilogy, especially the birth of Sandman and the belltower sequence, which, in my opinion, were simply magnificent.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's good to hear buddy.

On a Superman Returns related note, I thought I'd let you know that the latest addition to my fan art thread is a drawing of Brandon Routh I drew recently, in case you're interested in checking it out.

Great, will check it out when I have more time.

Despite its many flaws, I believe Spider-Man 3 has some of the best moments of the trilogy, especially the birth of Sandman and the belltower sequence, which, in my opinion, were simply magnificent.

Not sure about best moments of the trilogy, but those moments are far and away better than ANYTHING the other threequels so far have had to offer by some way IMO.

 

[Spoarz™]

Not sure about best moments of the trilogy, but those moments are far and away better than ANYTHING the other threequels so far have had to offer by some way IMO.

I have to agree with you there mate, I believe those two scenes are better than anything else the other threequels on the list have to offer tool.

Just to clarify, I don't think either of the two scenes I mentioned are the #1 best moment of the entire Spider-Man franchise. However, if I were to make a list of the top 20 moments of the Spider-Man trilogy, those two scenes would definitely make my list.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spoarz in da house

But I agree. SM3 had some great scenes that easily put it above all the films on this list. Yes, some scenes are rather ugh, but I definately feel the good outweighs the bad.

It's also a movie I like more upon subsequent viewings.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have to agree with you there mate, I believe those two scenes are better than anything else the other threequels on the list have to offer tool.

Just to clarify, I don't think either of the two scenes I mentioned are the #1 best moment of the entire Spider-Man franchise. However, if I were to make a list of the top 20 moments of the Spider-Man trilogy, those two scenes would definitely make my list.

Yeah, I can agree with that, i'd also throw Harry's death scene in there as well if were talking top 20. Those 3 moments alone put it way above any of the other threequels.

Spoarz in da house

But I agree. SM3 had some great scenes that easily put it above all the films on this list. Yes, some scenes are rather ugh, but I definately feel the good outweighs the bad.

It's also a movie I like more upon subsequent viewings.

THIS is something I wish more people would understand, I just dont see how people can judge a movie over 2 hours long on 1 viewing, no matter how much I hate a movie, I will always give it at least 2 viewings just to make my judgements concrete. With Spiderman 3, I didnt like it much 1st viewing, pretty much the same with the 2nd, but EVERY time I have watched it after that I have just enjoyed it more and more each time. Spiderman 3 is a movie that DEFINATELY has to be seen a few times to be appreciated, yet so many wont give it that chance.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

I've watched it several times and each time it only gets worse.

You guys seem like you're judging the movie based on some certain scenes you like while just ignoring the overall badly written story, when is Peter going to be allowed to grow up and evolve as a character?

Peter Parker after three movies is still the same unemployed, barley making ends meet nerd who's getting spitballs shot at him in class,(By the way, what college is he in where grown guys still sit around in class and shoot spitballs through straws?...please). The script is so immature and childish and has not grown one bit. Peter who's riding his girlfriend around on the back of a moped like he's in elementary school who can't even support himself actually believes he's ready to take on a marriage, yeah he's ready to share his little dump of an apartment and his little dump of a life with no steady income,(because he's still working freelance).. with a wife, I doubt this dude could afford to take care of a cat, he's so unprepared his aunt even had to donate an engagement ring because he can't even afford that. The whole idea of him even thinking about getting married just rings false, he's not even close to being ready for that and it's due to bad writing for not allowing that character to grow.

And speaking of Aunt May, isn't it time she learned the secret identity by now?,.. I mean come on it's been three movies, can't they move the players along a little further than what they're doing? She's still playing the same "wise old aunt" who offers advice in his times of trouble and uncertainty,... boring, boring, boring,..tell her the secret already and move their relationship to the next level if you ask me.

I won't even get started on MJ, she's such an indecisive, confused, whining selfish little drama queen I actually flat out hate her character. She is without a doubt the worst written character in the whole series.

Gwen brought absolutely nothing new to the table, her character didn't even need to be there. They could have accomplished the same thing by using the Betty Brant character as the romantic interest for "evil Peter" and Eddie Brock, at least that way you have a three way romantic conflict with an already established character (whom we've already seen act kind of flirty with Peter in the past) so when she gets more involved in the story we as the viewer would at least be more inclined to believe that she and Peter would have some hidden interest in each other based on their time working together as opposed to bringing in this unknown Gwen character who just got introduced in the third film with whom he shares no prior history with and because of that the audience is unable to connect with. That whole Gwen subplot just rings false, contrived and forced and she was recklessly introduced into the script just for "fanboy giggles".

That movie has serious issues in the writing department and a few pretty special fx shots doesn't make up for it.