Best 3rd movie in a SH franchise?

[Two-Face]

They all terrible movies but since I'm a BATMAN fan I go with BF cos it's still watchable.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I've watched it several times and each time it only gets worse.

Funny, thats my experience with X3)

You guys seem like you're judging the movie based on some certain scenes you like while just ignoring the overall badly written story, when is Peter going to be allowed to grow up and evolve as a character?

I didnt think it was a badly written story, those scene's elevated the story, but the story itself wasnt a problem for me, or many others seemingly.

Peter Parker after three movies is still the same unemployed, barley making ends meet nerd who's getting spitballs shot at him in class,(By the way, what college is he in where grown guys still sit around in class and shoot spitballs through straws?...please). The script is so immature and childish and has not grown one bit. Peter who's riding his girlfriend around on the back of a moped like he's in elementary school who can't even support himself actually believes he's ready to take on a marriage, yeah he's ready to share his little dump of an apartment and his little dump of a life with no steady income,(because he's still working freelance).. with a wife, I doubt this dude could afford to take care of a cat, he's so unprepared his aunt even had to donate an engagement ring because he can't even afford that. The whole idea of him even thinking about getting married just rings false, he's not even close to being ready for that and it's due to bad writing for not allowing that character to grow.

Were was it mentioned in the movie that Peter was struggling to make ends meet? In fact, at the very start of the movie, Peter says he has his life in order finally after the problems he suffered in Spiderman 2, so the character HAS grown. He has grown into someone who accepts his responsibilites as both Peter Parker and Spiderman. Thats the whole crux of the story, Peter becoming cocky and obnoxious, BECAUSE everything is going right for him in his life. If thats not character growth I dont know what is.

And about the spitballs through straws thing, I went to University and am 26 years of age, yet I still do goofy things like that for a laugh!

And speaking of Aunt May, isn't it time she learned the secret identity by now?,.. I mean come on it's been three movies, can't they move the players along a little further than what they're doing? She's still playing the same "wise old aunt" who offers advice in his times of trouble and uncertainty,... boring, boring, boring,..tell her the secret already and move their relationship to the next level if you ask me.

Yes, tell Aunt May his secret so she can get kidknapped by all of Spiderman's villains who find out his identity, do you really think Peter would put his mother figure in danger like that? MJ only found out by accident.

I won't even get started on MJ, she's such an indecisive, confused, whining selfish little drama queen I actually flat out hate her character. She is without a doubt the worst written character in the whole series.

This i'll agree on, didnt mind MJ in Spidey 1, but she has progressively gotten worse, and her story in Spiderman 3 was poor.

Gwen brought absolutely nothing new to the table, her character didn't even need to be there. They could have accomplished the same thing by using the Betty Brant character as the romantic interest for "evil Peter" and Eddie Brock, at least that way you have a three way romantic conflict with an already established character (whom we've already seen act kind of flirty with Peter in the past) so when she gets more involved in the story we as the viewer would at least be more inclined to believe that she and Peter would have some hidden interest in each other based on their time working together as opposed to bringing in this unknown Gwen character who just got introduced in the third film with whom he shares no prior history with and because of that the audience is unable to connect with. That whole Gwen subplot just rings false, contrived and forced and she was recklessly introduced into the script just for "fanboy giggles".[/QUOTE]

Like 90% of the characters in X3 were? I agree, she didnt bring anything new, but who knows were her character can go in future installments, and she did serve a purpose in the story. She is the reason Eddie hated Peter and thus this is the reason the Symbiote was attracted to Eddie, because of the hate and aggression in him.

That movie has serious issues in the writing department and a few pretty special fx shots doesn't make up for it.

What makes me laugh though is all of these criticisms and more can be levelled at X3 yet you defend that movie to the hilt. Spiderman 3 had more character, more growth, better action, and an actual story. X3 had NON of these IMO.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Were was it mentioned in the movie that Peter was struggling to make ends meet?

During those scenes where the Landlord keeps screaming for "RENT"!
During those scenes where he's unable to sell pictures of Spider-man over Eddie Brock pictures.
Where he's still riding a moped.
Where he can't afford a ring.

He has grown into someone who accepts his responsibilites as both Peter Parker and Spiderman. Thats the whole crux of the story, Peter becoming cocky and obnoxious, BECAUSE everything is going right for him in his life. If thats not character growth I dont know what is.

I'm sorry it doesn't look like growth to me so much as a poorly contrived plot device to justify odd behavior and combing his hair differently when he wears the black suit.

And about the spitballs through straws thing, I went to University and am 26 years of age, yet I still do goofy things like that for a laugh!

Oh man then this explains a lot, if you find spitballs through a straw funny at age 26, then this may go a long way as to explaining why we have such a difference in opinion on these movies...because I got bored with that little prank a loooooong time ago.

Yes, tell Aunt May his secret so she can get kidknapped by all of Spiderman's villains who find out his identity, do you really think Peter would put his mother figure in danger like that? MJ only found out by accident.

How does Aunt May knowing the identity place her in danger?...it only becomes a danger if the bad guys know his identity.

This i'll agree on, didnt mind MJ in Spidey 1, but she has progressively gotten worse, and her story in Spiderman 3 was poor.

Well maybe we finally found some common ground.

Like 90% of the characters in X3 were? I agree, she didnt bring anything new, but who knows were her character can go in future installments, and she did serve a purpose in the story. She is the reason Eddie hated Peter and thus this is the reason the Symbiote was attracted to Eddie, because of the hate and aggression in him.

Still could have done that with Betty Brant.

What makes me laugh though is all of these criticisms and more can be levelled at X3 yet you defend that movie to the hilt. Spiderman 3 had more character, more growth, better action, and an actual story. X3 had NON of these IMO.

X3 has far more characters to contend with and it still found a way to move the central characters forward more so than the much smaller Spider-Man cast, but I'm not talking about X3 now, I'm talking about Spider-Man 3.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

During those scenes where the Landlord keeps screaming for "RENT"!
During those scenes where he's unable to sell pictures of Spider-man over Eddie Brock pictures.
Where he's still riding a moped.
Where he can't afford a ring.

1)There was one scene of him asking for rent and that was when Peter had other things on his mind.

2)Did he look that devastated that Brock got the picture over his? No he only looked gutted when Brock was offered the staff job over him because of his loyalty to the complany.

3)Riding a moped means, nothing, he is Spiderman, he doesnt exactly need a car does he.

4)State were in the movie its explained he cant afford a ring. Aunt May offers him the ring of her own free will with no money involved in the conversation. Dont you remember Peter taking MJ to the expensive restaurant?

I'm sorry it doesn't look like growth to me so much as a poorly contrived plot device to justify odd behavior and combing his hair differently when he wears the black suit.

The Black Suite isnt a factor until an hour into the movie, becoming cocky from being successful is mistake many young men make.

Oh man then this explains a lot, if you find spitballs through a straw funny at age 26, then this may go a long way as to explaining why we have such a difference in opinion on these movies...because I got bored with that little prank a loooooong time ago.

Is this meant to mean something? Sounds like an insult that explains a lot. All it means is that I still like

How does Aunt May knowing the identity place her in danger?...it only becomes a danger if the bad guys know his identity.

EVERY villain so far has found out his identity.

Well maybe we finally found some common ground.

Still could have done that with Betty Brant.

X3 has far more characters to contend with and it still found a way to move the central characters forward more so than the much smaller Spider-Man cast, but I'm not talking about X3 now, I'm talking about Spider-Man 3.

Cyclops, Rogue, Jean, Pyro were all central characters and got squat. I only mention X3 because ALL of the problems and more you have with Spidey 3, X3 suffers from.

 

[Spoarz™]

You guys seem like you're judging the movie based on some certain scenes you like while just ignoring the overall badly written story, when is Peter going to be allowed to grow up and evolve as a character?

My judgement of Spider-Man 3 wasn’t based on individual scenes, my judgement was based on the overall film, which I do consider flawed, as I mentioned earlier when I said:

Despite its many flaws

I was simply establishing how much I like those individual moments.

I believe the main problem with Spider-Man 3 is that it suffers from an overly ambitious narrative with too many storylines and characters for any of the subplots to reach their full potential. Some characters lack development, screentime and/or motivation. And certain scenes, coincidences and plot devices (what the butler saw) are simply a detriment to the film.

Despite these flaws however, I still believe the overall film is the best third movie from a superhero franchise.

 

[Spoarz™]

1)3)Riding a moped means, nothing, he is Spiderman, he doesnt exactly need a car does he.

Maybe he does, AVEIT.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Hey let me ask another question,..when did Peter learn to play the piano with such expert skill?,... did the symbiote enable him to do that in addition to making him act like like an obnoxious @ss. Maybe he ought to give up photography and take up playing piano for a living,..he was playing well enough to put Elton John to shame, he may even be able to win a Grammy for best solo instrumental, not to mention his newly found abiltities of gaining the proporianate strength of a dancer jumping around looking like he's auditioning for 'Dancing With The Stars.'

I mean do you not find that kind of stuff silly and foolish looking?,.. you ask why I defend X3 to the hilt it's because you don't see the director doing obvious silly nonsense like taking Wolverine and having him tap dancing and swinging around on chandaliers around the local night club like a buffoon. Spider-Man 3 is an insult to viewers intelligence and Raimi just for his own amusement turned Peter into a dancing clown...twice.

 

[DX]

Maybe he does, AVEIT.

Didn't the Spider-Mobile actually try to kill Spidey in that story? Jeebus.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

My judgement of Spider-Man 3 wasn’t based on individual scenes, my judgement was based on the overall film, which I do consider flawed, as I mentioned earlier when I said:


I was simply establishing how much I like those individual moments.

I believe the main problem with Spider-Man 3 is that it suffers from an overly ambitious narrative with too many storylines and characters for any of the subplots to reach their full potential. Some characters lack development, screentime and/or motivation. And certain scenes, coincidences and plot devices (what the butler saw) are simply a detriment to the film.

Despite these flaws however, I still believe the overall film is the best third movie from a superhero franchise.

Sums up my feelings perfectly, a flawed movie isnt necessarily a bad one, X3 was so flawed it was a terrible movie and terrible adaptation. Spiderman 3 also was flawed, but had a lot more good scenes than bad, and was at least faithful to its storylines.

Hey let me ask another question,..when did Peter learn to play the piano with such expert skill?,... did the symbiote enable him to do that in addition to making him act like like an obnoxious @ss. Maybe he ought to give up photography and take up playing piano for a living,..he was playing well enough to put Elton John to shame, he may even be able to win a Grammy for best solo instrumental, not to mention his newly found abiltities of gaining the proporianate strength of a dancer jumping around looking like he's auditioning for 'Dancing With The Stars.'

Just because we never saw him playing it doesnt mean he couldnt, he might have been a piano whizz as a kid. You say those scene's are bad, and I agree, though that was meant to be a playful scene. But how can you accept Wolverine healing 100 hundreds faster than he has done in the previous movies at the end of X3, but not accept Peter playing the piano for 30 seconds. Honestly, which one was more absurd and had a bigger hand in the plot of their respective movies? I'll answer it for you, the (ridiculous) Wolverine scene.

I mean do you not find that kind of stuff silly and foolish looking?,.. you ask why I defend X3 to the hilt it's because you don't see the director doing obvious silly nonsense like taking Wolverine and having him tap dancing and swinging around on chandaliers around the local night club like a buffoon. Spider-Man 3 is an insult to viewers intelligence and Raimi just for his own amusement turned Peter into a dancing clown...twice.

I took the scene's how they were meant to be, funny and playful, would I have preferred them in there? NO, but they didnt ruin the overall experience for me, like EVERY scene in X3 did. Spiderman 3 wasnt an insult to the intellegence at all, X3 was with its stupid plotting and non-existant character scene's.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Maybe he does, AVEIT.

LOL, thank GOD we didnt get that!

 

[T-CLIPSE]

LOL, thank GOD we didnt get that!

Yeah, but unfortunately we did get this...

Look at this dork,....I think I might have preferred the Spider-Mobile.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah, but unfortunately we did get this...

Look at this dork,....I think I might have preferred the Spider-Mobile.

I actually found that bit funny, as it was meant to be viewed, but I can understand the people who didnt. I dont think people would have minded if that had been the ONLY dancing scene.

 

[Spoarz™]

I mean do you not find that kind of stuff silly and foolish looking?,.. you ask why I defend X3 to the hilt it's because you don't see the director doing obvious silly nonsense like taking Wolverine and having him tap dancing and swinging around on chandaliers around the local night club like a buffoon. Spider-Man 3 is an insult to viewers intelligence and Raimi just for his own amusement turned Peter into a dancing clown...twice.

I don't think it's insulting, since those scenes were intentionally ludicrous for comic effect.

However, I do understand why many dislike the dancing scenes and feel they’re inappropriate for the film. It’s not what I would have done, but they don’t ruin the overall film for me.

What I do find insulting is when a major character is killed off-screen in a pathetic, heartless manner and none of the other characters seem to give a s**t.

It’s more insulting when you realise this was only done so that a more favoured character could take his place and be given even more screentime.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, I can agree with that, i'd also throw Harry's death scene in there as well if were talking top 20. Those 3 moments alone put it way above any of the other threequels.



THIS is something I wish more people would understand, I just dont see how people can judge a movie over 2 hours long on 1 viewing, no matter how much I hate a movie, I will always give it at least 2 viewings just to make my judgements concrete. With Spiderman 3, I didnt like it much 1st viewing, pretty much the same with the 2nd, but EVERY time I have watched it after that I have just enjoyed it more and more each time. Spiderman 3 is a movie that DEFINATELY has to be seen a few times to be appreciated, yet so many wont give it that chance.

Definately agreed. I think it is also when you watch it seperating the film from the hype and look at it objectively, it really is pretty enjoyable. For a film that juggles the vision of 3 different people, it does a fairly good job, and this is no easy task. Plus, the church scene, Harry vs Peter, Birth of the Sandman, and Harry's death are just such great scenes to watch

Yeah, but unfortunately we did get this...

Look at this dork,....I think I might have preferred the Spider-Mobile.

I like that sequence. It amuses me

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't think it's insulting, since those scenes were intentionally ludicrous for comic effect.

However, I do understand why many dislike the dancing scenes and feel they’re inappropriate for the film. It’s not what I would have done, but they don’t ruin the overall film for me.

I wouldnt have put those scene's in there, but I took them for what they were, moments of lightness in a dark portion of the movie.

What I do find insulting is when a major character is killed off-screen in a pathetic, heartless manner and none of the other characters seem to give a s**t.

It’s more insulting when you realise this was only done so that a more favoured character could take his place and be given even more screentime.

Dude, done get me started again on that **** in X3 .

Definately agreed. I think it is also when you watch it seperating the film from the hype and look at it objectively, it really is pretty enjoyable. For a film that juggles the vision of 3 different people, it does a fairly good job, and this is no easy task. Plus, the church scene, Harry vs Peter, Birth of the Sandman, and Harry's death are just such great scenes to watch

Totally agreed, its also very enjoyable when watched immediatly after the first 2, not that it doesnt stand on its own merits, but as part of the larger story, it fits in great. And those moments you mentioned are amazing scene's.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

Seriously, Spider-Man 3 is in the lead? I voted BF, but it's not much of a competition.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^It isnt, but it seems Spiderman 3 is the cream of a very poor crop with most people.

 

[X-Maniac]

Easily X-Men 3 for me, and you all knew I'd say that. For all its flaws, I find it to be more watchable, more exciting, more entertaining, more conclusive, more satisfying than the other options. I felt it got somewhere, it reached a conclusion but teasingly left a few doors open for the fans.

The plot convenencies in SM3 ruin it for me, but it is more watchable at home than it was on theatrical release.

 

[MaxG]

For me its Either X-Men 3 or Batman Forever since I actually enjoyed them.

 

[JTStarkiller]

There are a couple I haven't seen on that list, but man, not one good film to choose from. That sucks.

 

[GregComicFan]

Spiderman 3 was just flawed. It was NOT a bad movie. It was just the weakest of the 3 films... and if a 4th and a 5th Spiderman movie are made, it won't matter... as long as the 4th and 5th are better than part 3.

Batman Forever is sooooooooooooooo different than Batman and Batman Returns I don't even see how it qualifies as being billed as a "part 3 to a movie franchise"... I see Batman Forever and Batman and Robin as a separate franchise to Batman/Batman Returns. I don't care Alfred/Gordon were played by the same actors in all four. lol.

Blade 3 sucked. Blade 2 was the best.

X-Men 3 was the worst of the 3 and frustrating because they killed off characters who didn't deserve it, depowered others, and in 90 minutes shoved two storylines together (Dark Pheonix, Mutant Cure) that could of easily had separate films devoted to each of them.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well I personally think the deaths of Charles and Scott were necessary to the story. It was about Jean finally being able to unleash the Pheonix, after being controlled and contained by Charles and Scott. Who is she gonna go after? The man who is trying to control her? Yep. The man who could appeal to her good side, the real Jean? Yep.

 

[Chewy]

Is that why she stood around behind Magneto doing nothing for more than half of the movie?

The Dark Phoenix wasn't really a storyline in X3, it was just a thing that happened that took up about 5 minutes of screentime. Kind of like Angel's "storyline", or Rogue's "storyline"

 

[Spider-Fan]

Cyclops dying was lame

As for the pick of The Crow, I would have put this higher. It is better than the Burton Batman films, and I may even say a top 5 comic book film. It is just pure greatness

 

[Chewy]

Cyclops dying was lame

As for the pick of The Crow, I would have put this higher. It is better than the Burton Batman films, and I may even say a top 5 comic book film. It is just pure greatness

I think you meant to post this in CFE's countdown thread