Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[Doctor Octopus]

Definitely Nolan's trilogy. Three very satisfying blockbusters (and a masterpiece amidst them), which stand on their own, while forming a cohesive and beautiful trilogy.

The first Captain America film starts nicely, but the script goes nowhere in the second half, and you (and by you I mean me) lose interest until Cap decides to sacrifice himself for the great good. Great scene, so/so film.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier is the only installment I truly loved. An exciting and intriguing script and story, and the Russo brothers are on a roll here. Their direction is a true tour the force, which reminded me of the dynamic visuals of John McTiernan's works.

Captain America: Civil War was a let-down for me. I always thought there was something off in the trailers, and the film itself confirmed my doubts. The script has some great ideas, and the conflict between Steve Rogers and Tony Stark is truly emotional, but I feel like there's a great film hidden in there, which was pushed aside to make space for the 'superhero rumble' (it felt more like Avengers 2.5 to me). Because of that I thought the script never really took off, and the pacing lacked most of the time. The direction felt also more run-of-the-mill when compared to The Winter Soldier: there were a couple of slicks shots and stunts, but overall it didn't reach that manic energy of the previous film. It's probably more satisfying for those who care about how the universe is built, rather than focusing more on the single films.

So, I can't really speak of the Captain America one as a great trilogy: the first one left me cold, the second made me care and got me excited, and the third let me down.

Agreed. Cap are good movies, but not really a trilogy, and First avenger only mediocre. Civil War is great but not enough to beat Dark Knight trilogy.

 

[The Batman]

I still think, regardless of quality, BB and TDKR didn't generate as much excitement as other recent CBMs like The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, and both TWS and CW. First Class and DOFP also fit into this category of being excellent movies without lighting the world on fire. Whether that's something to factor into a discussion of which is the better trilogy, I don't know. It's just a talking point

I can't really agree with this. If BB and TDKR didn't generate as much excitement as TA/GOTG/DP, I don't think you can say that Winter Soldier did. CW is a huge deal because in many ways it's basically Avengers 3, guest starring Spider-Man.

If BB/TDKR is in the same category as FC/DOFP, then TWS, a post Avengers 1 film that couldn't even outgross GOTG, or even BvS, would have to be in that category as well. And the one well received Cap movie that lit the world on fire is, again, just as much Avengers 3 as it is Cap 3. Cap only stars in billion dollar films when RDJ is his co lead.

TDKR made a billion with no 3d sales, and a national tragedy attached to it. And when adjusted for inflation, BB actually slightly outgrosses TWS in terms of domestic BO.

 

[StormC]

I think a lot of people saw TDKR out of obligation and curiosity but it didn't really resonate within pop culture like its predecessor or some other superhero movies. Much of the GA probably came out thinking "yeah, that was pretty good." It was super frontloaded IIRC (like a 69% dropoff the second weekend I think?), so I think they just flocked en masse to see the follow up to what was arguably the biggest blockbuster of its decade.

 

[ripse]

TDK if i'm not wrong, maybe u can correct me, this movie success because much factor fan or common people want to see his/her last movie with joker actor R.I.P is Heath Ledger. And this look same happened to Fast & Furious 7 where actor Paul Walker R.I.P, this movie can big successfull in Worldwide.

So maybe much factor that movie can be successed in many ways, this just my opinion

 

[The Joker]

I think a lot of people saw TDKR out of obligation and curiosity but it didn't really resonate within pop culture like its predecessor or some other superhero movies. Much of the GA probably came out thinking "yeah, that was pretty good." It was super frontloaded IIRC (like a 69% dropoff the second weekend I think?), so I think they just flocked en masse to see the follow up to what was arguably the biggest blockbuster of its decade.

Of course a lot of people saw TDKR because it was a sequel to TDK. Same as how a lot of people saw Civil War because it was basically Avengers 3. A movie that is built on the good brand name of a previous movie or movies is naturally going to draw in the audiences. That's a given. That's how franchises are built. Same as how BvS is going to hurt JL because of it's association with a poor brand. TDKR didn't ride on TDK's fame to hold it's head up. It stood on it's own merits. It was well loved, despite what some fanboys like to think. It was a huge financial success, very well received critically, and has great audience scores to back it up on any movie website you can find on-line. There's not a scrap of evidence to suggest any kind of majority disliked the movie.

The fact it didn't have as much cultural impact as TDK did doesn't make it some kind of failure. How many comic book movies can you say had a level of cultural impact that TDK had? You can count them on one hand.

TDK if i'm not wrong, maybe u can correct me, this movie success because much factor fan or common people want to see his/her last movie with joker actor R.I.P is Heath Ledger. And this look same happened to Fast & Furious 7 where actor Paul Walker R.I.P, this movie can big successfull in Worldwide.

So maybe much factor that movie can be successed in many ways, this just my opinion

TDK wasn't Heath Ledger's last movie. The Legend of Dr. Parnassus was. Actors die all the time. How many examples can you think of where their last movie, or in Heath's case second last movie, was TDK level successful. Did Heath's death bring more publicity to the movie? Of course. But a billion dollars worth? Not on your life. Look at Heath Ledger's movie resume prior to TDK, and name one movie that even came close to the blockbuster level success that TDK had. Heck none of them didn't even make more than Batman Begins. Heath wasn't a huge box office draw. Batman and the Joker are.

TDK had huge buzz and public interest already, not to mention one of the most amazing marketing campaigns I've ever seen that was spread worldwide:

[YT]VpuC7HhCPWA[/YT]

It was already on course to being a huge hit.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm positive Batman Begins would have been huge too if not for lingering bad sentiment over Batman & Robin (and Catwoman).

 

[StormC]

For the record, I loved TDKR and it was obviously a huge critical and financial success. I'm just saying I don't think it left the lasting impression on pop culture movies like Avengers, or even GOTG did.

And yeah, Ledger's death brought TDK huge publicity, but it took the world by storm when the pre-release buzz and reviews made it a must-see. I remember it like it was yesterday.

 

[CaptainWagner]

TDK would have been huge with or without Ledger's death, it was simply an amazing movie. Now, Ledger never would have gotten the Oscar if he hadn't died, but that's just how the Academy is, unfortunately.

That said, my vote here is partially biased towards Cap by the way Nolan's trilogy is treated by certain fans who hold it up as the pure standard of greatness, then harp on other films for being too "dark and grounded" or not staying true to the source.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

TDK would have been huge with or without Ledger's death, it was simply an amazing movie. Now, Ledger never would have gotten the Oscar if he hadn't died, but that's just how the Academy is, unfortunately.

I don't necessarily think that is true. They gave Javier Bardem and Christoph Waltz Oscars for playing similarly popular villains around that time.

 

[StormC]

That said, my vote here is partially biased towards Cap by the way Nolan's trilogy is treated by certain fans who hold it up as the pure standard of greatness, then harp on other films for being too "dark and grounded" or not staying true to the source.

Your opinion of the movies are affected by other people's opinions of those movies?

 

[spider-neil]

TDK if i'm not wrong, maybe u can correct me, this movie success because much factor fan or common people want to see his/her last movie with joker actor R.I.P is Heath Ledger. And this look same happened to Fast & Furious 7 where actor Paul Walker R.I.P, this movie can big successfull in Worldwide.

So maybe much factor that movie can be successed in many ways, this just my opinion

Can't talk for anyone else but my movie going experience for the TDK trilogy is this;

Batman Begins completely caught me by surprise in that I had no idea a Batman movie was coming out. B&R had completely burned me as franchise.
Nolan gave no clues as to what the movie was about but I went to see the movie anyway because, hey, it's Batman.

I thought BB was 'okay' loved the first two acts (becoming and being) checked out of the final act (the Ras reveal and climax bored me to tears). Wasn't that fussed about a sequel. To be honest, I was far more impressed with Nolan's follow up movie, 'The Prestige'.

Because I wasn't fussed about the sequel (to BB) I paid zero attention to the production news but of course heard that Ledger had died. So I was always going to go because, hey, it's Batman but now I was going to go regardless because of morbid curiosity to see Ledger's last performance.

Leading up to the movie there was suddenly buzz that this is the greatest superhero of all time. I found that hard to believe because 1) I thought that was Spider-Man 2 and 2) Iron Man knocked it out of the park already that summer.
I went into the movie armed crossed, 'okay then, impress me' and boy, I was completely and utterly blown away. 'THE' best comic movie by miles.

So, anyway, the years tick by and Nolan returns to Batman (after the IMHO overrated Inception). I hear the villain this time around is going to be Bane. My heart sinks. I really don't like Bane as a villain, he may not be the drooling idiot that Venom is in the comics but I really wanted a Se7en style movie with Riddler, but whether. If Nolan could completely reinvent Joker he can do the same for Bane.

I don't watch trailers anymore but I couldn't avoid the trailer for TDKR because it was the preview at BFI IMAX (London) and now I was on full on panic mode because I couldn't hear (or understand) what the **** Bane was saying. But I calmed myself by saying that will fix the voice in post.
Loved the plane heist, though.

Saw the movie. Actually enjoyed it at the time but having seen the movie back there are a lot of flaws (way too many to list now). The 'twist' is laughable. Overall a big step down from the previous movie.

To make a long story short;
I saw Batman Begins because it was Batman.
I saw TDK because it was Batman, Ledger's death and the movie buzz of 'Best movie EVAR'
I saw TDKR because it was the end of a trilogy and I had now become a full on Nolan fan after Memento, The Prestige and TDK.

If I were to score the movies honestly for the Cap trilogy and the TDK trilogy (and this is only my opinion) and would score them, like so;

Batman Begins - 7.5/10
Liked it, didn't love it. I thought the climax was pretty disappointing (for me).

TDK - 9.9/10
Best superhero movie ever. Utterly brilliant.

TDKR - 6/10
Lackluster follow up to a brilliant movie, flawed as ****

Compared to;
First Avenger - 7.0/10
Liked it, didn't love it. I thought the climax was pretty disappointing (for me).

Winter Soldier - 9.5/10
Great movie and up to this point the MCU's best ever.

Civil War - 9.6/10
Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! What a follow up to WS and what a climax to the trilogy as a whole.

That was long winded but that is why I think Cap trilogy is better than the TDK trilogy, thought TDK is CLEARLY the best movie of all the 6 movies of both trilogies.

 

[Anita18]

For me, as much I love TWS and CW, the Captain America movies cannot be considered a self-contained trilogy. You need to watch TA and especially AoU to understand a good part of what goes on in CW, and CW doesn't wrap Cap's storyline up. In fact, it adds yet another layer to Steve Rogers, who's now an insurgent running from the law. I mean, TDKR ends with Bruce also giving up his costume, but for real retirement. TDKR wraps up Bruce's story, CW doesn't do the same for Steve Rogers.

Also, the fact the same director got to do all 3 films, AND TDK being the cultural phenomenon that it is (and also changing my life, not an exaggeration), Nolan's Batman is the "better trilogy" for me.

Man, I really wish we had the Russos for TFA. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the others.

 

[spider-neil]

For me, as much I love TWS and CW, the Captain America movies cannot be considered a self-contained trilogy. You need to watch TA and especially AoU to understand a good part of what goes on in CW, and CW doesn't wrap Cap's storyline up. In fact, it adds yet another layer to Steve Rogers, who's now an insurgent running from the law. I mean, TDKR ends with Bruce also giving up his costume, but for real retirement. TDKR wraps up Bruce's story, CW doesn't do the same for Steve Rogers.

Also, the fact the same director got to do all 3 films, AND TDK being the cultural phenomenon that it is (and also changing my life, not an exaggeration), Nolan's Batman is the "better trilogy" for me.

Man, I really wish we had the Russos for TFA. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the others.

TFA
Origin of Captain America and his friendship with Bucky.
Bucky seemingly killed.

WS
Winter Soldier revealed to be Bucky.
Cap risks everything to break Bucky's brainwashing.

CW
Heart of the movie centers around Cap protecting Bucky and closes climaxes with Bucky literally being put on ice.

How is that not a trilogy or a culmination of a character arc?
Also, Batman Begins feels like a different movie to TDK. BB centered around Batman, TDK centers around the Joker (or at least that's how it felt to me).

 

[Anita18]

TFA
Origin of Captain America and his friendship with Bucky.
Bucky seemingly killed.

WS
Winter Soldier revealed to be Bucky.
Cap risks everything to break Bucky's brainwashing.

CW
Heart of the movie centers around Cap protecting Bucky and closes climaxes with Bucky literally being put on ice.

How is that not a trilogy or a culmination of a character arc?
Also, Batman Begins feels like a different movie to TDK. BB centered around Batman, TDK centers around the Joker (or at least that's how it felt to me).

The thing there though, is that TFA doesn't really focus on Steve's relationship with Bucky, which is a weakness that carries through TWS and CW. He's basically dropped what, a half-hour before the movie ends? He's the Sharon Carter of TFA.

For me, it's not a "culmination" of a character arc because they dangle too many loose ends in front of us. Steve Roger is now an insurgent breaking out his superhero teammates out of jail. Which begs the question, what's he gonna do next? Bucky's arc is simply paused when he's put back into cryo, nothing with him is resolved at all. We don't know if he'll be a hero again, if he's figured out how to live with himself with what he's done.

There are just too many unanswered questions about both of their stories, that we have to presumably watch more MCU films to get. We know they're gonna be making more. That's why I don't consider it a self-contained trilogy.

And Park Chan-wook's Vengeance Trilogy was mentioned as a thematic trilogy, and that analogy doesn't even work for Cap because the first movie was directed by a different guy.

 

[Anita18]

Lemme see if I can explain it in character arcs:

In Nolan's Batfilms, there's a distinct arc with Bruce:

1. BB: Bruce learns to channel his anger and become a symbol
2. TDK: Bruce learns the consequences of taking the responsibility of being a symbolic hero, eventually taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit and runs from the law
3. TDKR: Bruce finally faces the reality of why he's fighting, and welcomes the public embracing his symbol as a true hero, while acknowledging he doesn't have to fight anymore

In the Cap movies, there IS an arc with Steve, but CW leaves his story dangling:

1. TFA: Steve gets a chance to serve his country but faces the consequences of war
2. TWS: Steve learns that modern warfare isn't as cut-and-dry as it was in the 40's, and starts to distrust the power structures that oversee him
3. CW: Steve totally and completely disregards power structures, and becomes an insurgent running from the law

You see how that isn't self-contained? CW is more like TDK than TDKR.

 

[Mjölnir]

Lemme see if I can explain it in character arcs:

In Nolan's Batfilms, there's a distinct arc with Bruce:

1. BB: Bruce learns to channel his anger and become a symbol
2. TDK: Bruce learns the consequences of taking the responsibility of being a symbolic hero, eventually taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit and runs from the law
3. TDKR: Bruce finally faces the reality of why he's fighting, and welcomes the public embracing his symbol as a true hero, while acknowledging he doesn't have to fight anymore

In the Cap movies, there IS an arc with Steve, but CW leaves his story dangling:

1. TFA: Steve gets a chance to serve his country but faces the consequences of war
2. TWS: Steve learns that modern warfare isn't as cut-and-dry as it was in the 40's, and starts to distrust the power structures that oversee him
3. CW: Steve totally and completely disregards power structures, and becomes an insurgent running from the law

You see how that isn't self-contained? CW is more like TDK than TDKR.

But there's nothing whatsoever in the definition of a trilogy that says that it needs to be a self-contained story. I can mention trilogies where the movies have no narrative relation to each other whatsoever, other than that they share themes.

It all just goes into self-defined semantics so I think it's more productive to just focus on the obvious intent of the question, which is to compare the three Batman movies Nolan did to the three Cap movies in the MCU.

 

[Erzengel]

Indiana Jones is an example of that and that's always have been one of my top trilogies.

 

[spider-neil]

But there's nothing whatsoever in the definition of a trilogy that says that it needs to be a self-contained story. I can mention trilogies where the movies have no narrative relation to each other whatsoever, other than that they share themes.

It all just goes into self-defined semantics so I think it's more productive to just focus on the obvious intent of the question, which is to compare the three Batman movies Nolan did to the three Cap movies in the MCU.

Exactly.
For me, 3 movies starring the same character(s) = Trilogy
And even though the Avengers appear in CW, it is clearly a Captain America movie.

I consider TDK a Batman movie even though Batman is pretty much a co star in his own movie.

 

[spider-neil]

Indiana Jones is an example of that and that's always have been one of my top trilogies.

I would consider Indiana Jones one of my favorite movies but I've never warmed to Temple of Doom and I've given that movie enough views to change my opinion. Great 1st and 3rd installment, though.

 

[The Joker]

I'm positive Batman Begins would have been huge too if not for lingering bad sentiment over Batman & Robin (and Catwoman).

Most definitely. The Batman brand name was mud back then. It also didn't help that BB didn't have much eye catching marketing to help to boost interest in the tarnished Batman brand.

For me, as much I love TWS and CW, the Captain America movies cannot be considered a self-contained trilogy. You need to watch TA and especially AoU to understand a good part of what goes on in CW, and CW doesn't wrap Cap's storyline up. In fact, it adds yet another layer to Steve Rogers, who's now an insurgent running from the law. I mean, TDKR ends with Bruce also giving up his costume, but for real retirement. TDKR wraps up Bruce's story, CW doesn't do the same for Steve Rogers.

Also, the fact the same director got to do all 3 films, AND TDK being the cultural phenomenon that it is (and also changing my life, not an exaggeration), Nolan's Batman is the "better trilogy" for me.

Man, I really wish we had the Russos for TFA. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the others.

The thing there though, is that TFA doesn't really focus on Steve's relationship with Bucky, which is a weakness that carries through TWS and CW. He's basically dropped what, a half-hour before the movie ends? He's the Sharon Carter of TFA.

For me, it's not a "culmination" of a character arc because they dangle too many loose ends in front of us. Steve Roger is now an insurgent breaking out his superhero teammates out of jail. Which begs the question, what's he gonna do next? Bucky's arc is simply paused when he's put back into cryo, nothing with him is resolved at all. We don't know if he'll be a hero again, if he's figured out how to live with himself with what he's done.

There are just too many unanswered questions about both of their stories, that we have to presumably watch more MCU films to get. We know they're gonna be making more. That's why I don't consider it a self-contained trilogy.

And Park Chan-wook's Vengeance Trilogy was mentioned as a thematic trilogy, and that analogy doesn't even work for Cap because the first movie was directed by a different guy.

Lemme see if I can explain it in character arcs:

In Nolan's Batfilms, there's a distinct arc with Bruce:

1. BB: Bruce learns to channel his anger and become a symbol
2. TDK: Bruce learns the consequences of taking the responsibility of being a symbolic hero, eventually taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit and runs from the law
3. TDKR: Bruce finally faces the reality of why he's fighting, and welcomes the public embracing his symbol as a true hero, while acknowledging he doesn't have to fight anymore

In the Cap movies, there IS an arc with Steve, but CW leaves his story dangling:

1. TFA: Steve gets a chance to serve his country but faces the consequences of war
2. TWS: Steve learns that modern warfare isn't as cut-and-dry as it was in the 40's, and starts to distrust the power structures that oversee him
3. CW: Steve totally and completely disregards power structures, and becomes an insurgent running from the law

You see how that isn't self-contained? CW is more like TDK than TDKR.

Exactly right

Exactly.
For me, 3 movies starring the same character(s) = Trilogy

So the first three Harry Potter movies are a trilogy to you? Nightmare on Elm Street 1-3 is a trilogy? Is Casino Royale/Quantum of Solace/Skyfall a trilogy? Is Superman 1-3 a trilogy etc?

And even though the Avengers appear in CW, it is clearly a Captain America movie.

I disagree. The Avengers don't just appear, they are a hugely significant part of the story. Tony Stark has as much development and prominence as Cap, if not more so. It's as much an Iron Man movie as it is a Cap one, with a lot of fans feeling this was Tony's best outing since the first IM movie.

I consider TDK a Batman movie even though Batman is pretty much a co star in his own movie.

That doesn't make any sense. The whole narrative revolves around Batman. He is the driving force. The focus was very much on him, and the story was all about the effects of Batman and his choices on Gotham City. His presence basically opened a whole can of worms, the biggest one being the Joker (which was already hinted at in BB's ending). He then misguidedly thinks Dent would be a good replacement for Batman, and that has even bigger disastrous consequences. TDK was very much an eye opening learning curve for Batman. He's at the center of the story. This is a great theme that the comics have often hinted at; that Batman is the reason Gotham is a choc full of freak villains, since they all popped up after he arrived. Even the Arkham games have touched on it.

In TDK he learns what his limits are, what Batman can endure both personally and symbolically, he learns about the nature of criminals like the Joker (and actually learns from his encounter with the Joker to face him again, like by the finale he sees right through the Prewitt building set up as not being what it seems - "It's not that simple. With the Joker it never is"). And yes, his selfless sacrifice at the end when he learns Batman can be what ever Gotham needs him to be. Compare that to Bruce at the beginning of the movie who arrogantly thinks Batman has no limits. Bruce's growth in this movie was learning what they are, what he can and cannot endure, and learning about the terrible nature of freaks like the Joker whom are a reaction to his presence in Gotham just like the copycats. TDK was a real eye opener for Bruce and what exactly the effects of Batman are on himself and on Gotham.

He had so many stand out scenes. His take down of Scarecrow and the imposter Batmen in the parking garage. Abducting Lau from China. Kicking ass in Maroni's club and dropping Maroni off the fire escape. The whole Joker truck chase he was bad ass with many cool moments like taking out the garbage truck, birth of the Bat-Pod, and flipping over Joker's truck. The Prewitt building scene is probably the coolest Batman has ever been on film taking out two SWAT teams, Joker's men, and protecting the hostages, too.
There was a great mix of funny and serious Bruce Wayne scenes, too, like the aftermath of Rachel's death where he's quietly mourning her with Alfred - they did a great mirror image of the childhood Bruce mourning his parents there where Alfred comes in, says something about food, Bruce ignores him, Alfred says "Very well" and goes to leave and then Bruce calls him back. All the playboy Bruce stuff was gold. Seeing Bruce use the daylight hours effectively as Bruce by staking out Loeb's funeral, and following Gordon and Reese and having Alfred run a check on all the Cops he recognizes (love that Bruce knows many of the Cops by name) etc.

So yeah I've never agreed with the assertion that Batman was not the focus or a co-star in TDK. It's like the people who say that saw a different movie or something. When you look at TDKR, Bruce is a shell of a man because of what happened in TDK. TDK was Batman's most emotionally gut wrenching character journey in the trilogy. But then Nolan would have screwed up big time if Batman's round with the Joker wasn't his most damaging. He's not Batman's greatest enemy for nothing. No CBM has captured the effectiveness of a hero against his greatest enemy as much as TDK has.

 

[-JKR-]

Honestly, if someone who doesn't know crap about the Marvel Universe would watch The Winter Soldier (which by the way did the almost impossible miracle of making me care about Steve's friendship with Bucky, which I honestly couldn't care less about in The First Avenger) and Civil War, he'd probably be confused by who those other guys are.

It just doesn't seem like a sastisfying trilogy to me.

And to me Civil War just felt like too much of a bridge between The Avengers films.

 

[The Batman]

Exactly.
For me, 3 movies starring the same character(s) = Trilogy
And even though the Avengers appear in CW, it is clearly a Captain America movie.

I consider TDK a Batman movie even though Batman is pretty much a co star in his own movie.

If Batman is a co star in TDK, what does that make Cap in CW?

Going by your standards, I don't see how Cap isn't a co star in his own film as well.

 

[metaphysician]

Your opinion of the movies are affected by other people's opinions of those movies?

When they get as obnoxious as some of the more fanatic Nolan fans are? It damn well is. There's only so much you can hear "This movie is the most perfect movie ever, and if you think its any less than 200% perfection you are wrong and evil" without wanting to deliberately look for flaws. Doubly so when its wielded as a bludgeon in fandom wars.

 

[metaphysician]

Lemme see if I can explain it in character arcs:

In Nolan's Batfilms, there's a distinct arc with Bruce:

1. BB: Bruce learns to channel his anger and become a symbol
2. TDK: Bruce learns the consequences of taking the responsibility of being a symbolic hero, eventually taking the blame for a crime he didn't commit and runs from the law
3. TDKR: Bruce finally faces the reality of why he's fighting, and welcomes the public embracing his symbol as a true hero, while acknowledging he doesn't have to fight anymore

In the Cap movies, there IS an arc with Steve, but CW leaves his story dangling:

1. TFA: Steve gets a chance to serve his country but faces the consequences of war
2. TWS: Steve learns that modern warfare isn't as cut-and-dry as it was in the 40's, and starts to distrust the power structures that oversee him
3. CW: Steve totally and completely disregards power structures, and becomes an insurgent running from the law

You see how that isn't self-contained? CW is more like TDK than TDKR.

Of course, can you really give "credit" to TDKR for a conclusive arc finale, when a very large part of the fandom rejects exactly that part of the arc? More than any other element of TDKR, I see fans complain about the ending.

 

[DACrowe]

If Batman is a co star in TDK, what does that make Cap in CW?

Going by your standards, I don't see how Cap isn't a co star in his own film as well.

Much more so. Batman is still the driving impetus and cause for the rise of Joker, the rise of Harvey Dent, and the progress of Jim Gordon. All four are arguably equal protagonists (well not Joker, who is the antagonist, but still), yet Batman is what inspires/motivates all of them in the actions they take for most of the story--all of it in the Joker's case.

Captain America is arguably a less crucial character in Civil War since he is reacting to Tony and then Daniel Bruhl's character throughout. He reacts to the Accords, he reacts to Bucky being discovered and then activated, and finally he is reacting to Tony bringing down the hammer.

Consider once the die is cast and the battle lines are drawn (by admittedly Cap's hand), we actually see Tony spend time recruiting Peter Parker. We don't get that treatment for Cap. He just gets to kiss an underdeveloped love interest while Falcon shows up with Ant-Man, who he recruited off-screen. I would say Tony is a much more active character in a Captain America movie.