Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[Doctor Octopus]

1. The Dark Knight - 5/5
2. The Dark Knight Rises - 5/5
   [*]Batman Begins - 5/5
3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier - 5/5
4. Captain America: Civil War - 4/5
5. Captain America: The First Avenger - 4/5

The Dark Knight Trilogy > Captain America Trilogy

Agreed. Good rankings.

 

[Erzengel]

It's hard for me to agree with that because that puts TDKR and BB on the same level as TDK.

 

[Mjölnir]

It's hard for me to agree with that because that puts TDKR and BB on the same level as TDK.

Movies can get the same grade and still not be as good as each other though. I actually prefer when people keep their scales rough and then define things better with words.

That said those grades aren't very close to my own, but that's a different matter (as is the fact that I think BB is overall better than TDK).

 

[spider-neil]

Movies can get the same grade and still not be as good as each other though. I actually prefer when people keep their scales rough and then define things better with words.

That said those grades aren't very close to my own, but that's a different matter (as is the fact that I think BB is overall better than TDK).

I checked out of the climax of BB. TDK, I think is the best superhero movie ever made, and by some distance.

 

[Mjölnir]

I checked out of the climax of BB. TDK, I think is the best superhero movie ever made, and by some distance.

I do the same with the climax in TDK as I don't think Two-Face works. BB has a better Batman and fewer big plot conveniences. But mine is a more rare opinion on that matter.

 

[spider-neil]

I do the same with the climax in TDK as I don't think Two-Face works. BB has a better Batman and fewer big plot conveniences. But mine is a more rare opinion on that matter.

Nolan definitely could have shaved 20 minutes off TDK. Two-Face felt forced and rushed and I could have done without the boats Mexican stand off.
Still, best superhero movie ever.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Cap's trilogy has 5 good-to-great villains:

Red Skull
Alexander Pierce
Arnim Zola
Crossbones
Winter Soldier

I can't think of any super hero trilogy that has that many successful adaptations of baddies.

Alexander Pierce and Arnim Zola were interesting enough, but I'd hardly consider them great villains. Crossbones barely had any screen time. I liked Red Skull, but many people had complaints about how that iconic villain was handled.

 

[daddydivine]

Every time I see this thread I'm still surprised that Cap is only 12 votes behind Bats. Like how crazy is that. To have Caps trilogy in the same breath as The Dark Knight trilogy.

I think Cap wins out as a better comicbook movie trilogy but The Dark Knight was damn near a masterpiece.

 

[StormC]

I can't think of a single scene I would remove from TDK. It all comes together marvelously.

Cap's trilogy has 5 good-to-great villains:

Red Skull
Alexander Pierce
Arnim Zola
Crossbones
Winter Soldier

I can't think of any super hero trilogy that has that many successful adaptations of baddies.

I love the Cap trilogy, but Nolan's villains beat the pants off of those. Ra's Al Ghul, Joker, and Bane are all among the best in the genre.

You also neglected Zemo, who is arguably the best in any of the three movies and the only one who could hold a candle to the three I just mentioned.

 

[Mjölnir]

Nolan definitely could have shaved 20 minutes off TDK. Two-Face felt forced and rushed and I could have done without the boats Mexican stand off.
Still, best superhero movie ever.

There are of course things I don't think worked perfectly in Begins as well. Most importantly Scarecrow had so much potential, but his ultimate fate just throws him into the trash. But still the best Batman movie to me, especially when it comes to presenting the titular character.

 

[spider-neil]

There are of course things I don't think worked perfectly in Begins as well. Most importantly Scarecrow had so much potential, but his ultimate fate just throws him into the trash. But still the best Batman movie to me, especially when it comes to presenting the titular character.

(IMHO) The best movie that 'happens' to have Batman in it is TDK.
But, for me the best Batman is Affleck. I couldn't care less if people thought he was nothing like Batman. It was the Batman I always wanted to see on the big screen.

 

[henzINNIT]

Having thought about this some more, I'm leaning much harder toward Captain America. My ranking:

The Dark Knight
The Winter Soldier
Civil War
Batman Begins
The First Avenger
...
The Dark Knight Rises

I really don't like TDKR. It's competently made but I just don't agree with a lot of the decisions Nolan made.

(IMHO) The best movie that 'happens' to have Batman in it is TDK.
But, for me the best Batman is Affleck. I couldn't care less if people thought he was nothing like Batman. It was the Batman I always wanted to see on the big screen.

I look forward to Affleck in a good Batman film. I have no doubt he'll prove to be the definitive portrayal of the character. I already like him more than Bale, though I'm still giving the edge to Keaton for the moment.

 

[StormC]

I do love Batman Begins but it feels the most "canned" of the Nolan trilogy. Like it's mostly playing into superhero movie tropes from the early 2000s. A lot of the dialogue and scenes lack the raw human elements the sequels had, in my opinion.

 

[DACrowe]

Cap's trilogy has 5 good-to-great villains:

Red Skull
Alexander Pierce
Arnim Zola
Crossbones
Winter Soldier

I can't think of any super hero trilogy that has that many successful adaptations of baddies.

Cough Heath Ledger's Joker, Tom Hardy's Bane, Liam Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul, Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow, and (if you count her as a villain) Anne Hathaway's Catwoman. Cough.

But I have beaten this horse to death, so more power to you if you do find enjoyment out of those characters. With that said I do enjoy Frank Grillo a lot, and I thought it was a shame how he got wasted in the Cap movies as cannon fodder.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Cough Heath Ledger's Joker, Tom Hardy's Bane, Liam Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul, Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow, and (if you count her as a villain) Anne Hathaway's Catwoman. Cough.

But I have beaten this horse to death, so more power to you if you do find enjoyment out of those characters. With that said I do enjoy Frank Grillo a lot, and I thought it was a shame how he got wasted in the Cap movies as cannon fodder.

You forgot Aaron Eckhart's Two-Face. He was fantastic.

 

[The Joker]

The scene where Two Face has Gordon's family hostage alone was more intense and memorable than anything Red Skull, Alexander Pierce, Arnim Zola, and Crossbones did IMO.

Marvel's weakness is the villains. Most are serviceable but largely forgettable, some are bad, and just one has been truly stand out memorable. Two if you count the Daredevil TV show.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Two if you count the Daredevil TV show.

Purple Man was great too if you count Jessica Jones.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Cough Heath Ledger's Joker, Tom Hardy's Bane, Liam Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul, Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow, and (if you count her as a villain) Anne Hathaway's Catwoman. Cough.

But I have beaten this horse to death, so more power to you if you do find enjoyment out of those characters. With that said I do enjoy Frank Grillo a lot, and I thought it was a shame how he got wasted in the Cap movies as cannon fodder.

Agreed. Love Marvel movies but they not great for best villains. Cap movies villains ok but not as good as Batman ones. Nobody really remember Crossbones, Zola and Pierce for great villains.

 

[StormC]

I would have mentioned Two-Face as well, but he arguably spends more time as a good guy so it's kind of borderline. But the point still remains that the Nolan trilogy has by far the best rogues gallery of any superhero film series.

Marvel's weakness is the villains. Most are serviceable but largely forgettable, some are bad, and just one has been truly stand out memorable. Two if you count the Daredevil TV show.

I know you're talking about Loki, but Zemo was honestly one of my favorite parts of Civil War. I think he'll be shoulder to shoulder with the god of mischief once he starts getting more roles.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Alexander Pierce and Arnim Zola were interesting enough, but I'd hardly consider them great villains. Crossbones barely had any screen time. I liked Red Skull, but many people had complaints about how that iconic villain was handled.

Rumlow was developed across two movies, so I'll have to disagree that he didn't get enough screen time. Zola was simply amazing. He's the kind of difficult character who I never thought we'd see on screen. Robert Redford's acting as Pierce was as good as a performance gets. Red Skull is criminally underrated by many CBM fans. He had a perfect look, a motivation that honored his long comic book history, and a polished M.O. He's one of the best villains ever on film. Add in Winter Solider and we have a villainous legacy like no on film to date.

I can't think of a single scene I would remove from TDK. It all comes together marvelously.



I love the Cap trilogy, but Nolan's villains beat the pants off of those. Ra's Al Ghul, Joker, and Bane are all among the best in the genre.

You also neglected Zemo, who is arguably the best in any of the three movies and the only one who could hold a candle to the three I just mentioned.

I can only agree on Joker. Ra's deviated from the comic too much. Bane, while a decent effort, was hampered in his dialogue delivery by his silly-looking mask. It's a miracle that the character came off as effectively as it did given those hindrances. I'd argue that Scarecrow was the 2nd best Nolan villain.

And I didn't neglect Zemo. He's the worst of the Cap villains on screen so far, but that' doesn't necessarily mean he was bad or he can't be saved. Bruhl and the Russo Bros. admitted that the character barely resembled the comic roots of the character. He had a decent M.O., but he was generic in look and motivation. Luckily, CA:CW didn't need much from him because most of the story was already in place. There's still time to actually make him Baron Zemo.

 

[The Joker]

Purple Man was great too if you count Jessica Jones.

Don't watch it, so I can't comment. But Kingpin? Sweet perfection.

I know you're talking about Loki, but Zemo was honestly one of my favorite parts of Civil War. I think he'll be shoulder to shoulder with the god of mischief once he starts getting more roles.

Maybe. Maybe not. We can only judge what we have seen, and not what might be in the future.

It's why I understand the mentality of people being reluctant to call Tom Holland the definitive Spider-Man, because we have only had a taster of the character, and can only judge on what we got, not what we may get later.

 

[Brother Jack]

The scene where Two Face has Gordon's family hostage alone was more intense and memorable than anything Red Skull, Alexander Pierce, Arnim Zola, and Crossbones did IMO.

The dramatic intimacy and personal stakes of the Two-Face hostage scene felt a bit like the progenitor to Civil War's climax. Both are great scenes and very subversive for being the final conflicts in a superhero movie. It's very character driven, treating the emotional dynamics of them with a sense of honesty and weight.

 

[StormC]

Maybe. Maybe not. We can only judge what we have seen, and not what might be in the future.

It's why I understand the mentality of people being reluctant to call Tom Holland the definitive Spider-Man, because we have only had a taster of the character, and can only judge on what we got, not what we may get later.

Well, from what we've seen, it's enough for me to call Zemo a legitimately great villain.

And I didn't neglect Zemo. He's the worst of the Cap villains on screen so far

I thought he was the best by far. The others were decent to good but Zemo was genuinely compelling.

I find it weird that you get hung up on the differences from the comics for some of these characters but not others (Alexander Pierce). Liberties taken, a character like Liam Neeson's Ra's commands way more screen presence than most of the Cap villains in his sleep.

 

[Micromind]

TDK trilogy is better without any doubt.



Though I think Cap's Trilogy is better than Iron Man's trilogy.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Well, from what we've seen, it's enough for me to call Zemo a legitimately great villain.



I thought he was the best by far. The others were decent to good but Zemo was genuinely compelling.

I find it weird that you get hung up on the differences from the comics for some of these characters but not others (Alexander Pierce). Liberties taken, a character like Liam Neeson's Ra's commands way more screen presence than most of the Cap villains in his sleep.

From the stories that I've read with Pierce (admittedly, there might be plenty that I haven't seen) he's a very minor character in Marvel's history. He's a competent SHIELD agent, but prior to TWS, I would have guessed that he would be a soldier lucky to get a name drop in the Avengers world. The twist vastly elevated the character's importance. I might have felt differently had Marvel Studios made Jack Flag into Crossbones or Bernadette Rosenthal into Madame Hydra.

Zemo was unfortunately hampered by being just an angry guy from Sokovia instead of a legacy villain. The sad thing is that Marvel Studios could have tied Sokovia into the Zemo mythos, but they didn't put much effort into his backstory. CW's Zemo wasn't a bad character, but there is almost nothing there that is intrinsically Helmut Zemo.