Black Panther The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 10

[flickchick85]

Guardians & BP have best female support in MCU. I love those female characters

Agreed about BP. Not so much about Guardians. Valkyrie was better than any of GotG's female characters, imo. I also like Scarlet Witch better than them as well.

 

[StarLord]

I think Gamora and Nebula are fine, but others have definitely outshone them.

 

[samsnee]

Does this movie pass the Bechdel Test? Obviously there were strong women in this. But part of the test is also if the women aren’t just talking about the men when they aren’t on screen and I can’t remeber them not.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Does this movie pass the Bechdel Test?

Maybe the scene between Shuri & Nakia if you don't count Ross being there in background when they start gearing up

 

[flickchick85]

And people were saying they didn't want another Thor movie.

She's barely had any screen time - and zero under the franchise's best director. Give her something to work with before you write her off.

I watched a whole season of Blindspot and found her wholly unremarkable even as a series lead, so I think the problem is with Alexander, not the material.

 

[samsnee]

Agreed. Put her in the Valkyrie role and she wouldn’t have been nearly as good as Tessa.

 

[metaphysician]

Bucky is also a Hydra agent who is guilty of tons of crimes, is a fugitive and worse can be activated at any time.

I have no idea why you guys purposefully keep forgetting those small little details.

Cap should have handed him over to authorities he trusts will do the right thing with him.

Cap did no such thing because of his history with Bucky.

The same way he never told Tony about his parents because of his relationship with Bucky.

First, no. Bucky was a *victim* of Hydra, subjected to abuse to turn him into a weapon. He was "guilty" of absolutely nothing.

Second, tell me, where exactly was Steve supposed to *find* "authorities he trusts will do the right thing"? He can't turn him over to people that don't exist, and given the bad faith behavior of the UN on the matter of the Accords, he has zero reason to trust the Secretary Ross as far as he can throw him. It was a considerable magnanimous gesture on his part that he was as fine with leaving Bucky in their custody the first time as he was.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Agreed. Put her in the Valkyrie role and she wouldn’t have been nearly as good as Tessa.

I feel Valkryie and Thor should date after Infinity War's. They could be best couple

 

[Raiden]

Looks like Tessa Thompson's Valkyre has already found Wakanda.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I watched a whole season of Blindspot and found her wholly unremarkable even as a series lead, so I think the problem is with Alexander, not the material.

I haven't watched that show so I can't comment on it but maybe it wasn't the best role for her. At any rate, as a Thor fan, I was happy enough with her portrayal of Sif - I just wanted to see more of her. Sif is an important character in the Thor mythos. More so than Valkyrie. I like Valkyrie's portrayal but I don't see why Sif needs to be forced out. I'd like to see Sif's story get better resolution. If Taika does introduce Beta Ray Bill at some point she could play a key part.

 

[Raiden]

First, no. Bucky was a *victim* of Hydra, subjected to abuse to turn him into a weapon. He was "guilty" of absolutely nothing.

Second, tell me, where exactly was Steve supposed to *find* "authorities he trusts will do the right thing"? He can't turn him over to people that don't exist, and given the bad faith behavior of the UN on the matter of the Accords, he has zero reason to trust the Secretary Ross as far as he can throw him. It was a considerable magnanimous gesture on his part that he was as fine with leaving Bucky in their custody the first time as he was.

Exactly! I don't understand why people are still confused about this even after they watched TWS & CW; Bucky was mind-controlled against his will and he didn't want to kill any of his victims intentionally.

 

[Flash525]

Hela was powerful enough to overcome what small percentage of the Soul Stone essence forged into the Hammer, to destroy it. So the Person that Odin commissioned to forge Mjölnir, probably is in possession or at least, knows where the stone resides. A possible hint to this could be referenced in those ensemble character illustrations that "MbJ" posted a few days ago...depicting Thor, Rocket, & Groot in front of a Orange planet backdrop, with an orange muzzle flash, sparkling out of Rocket's gun.

Before Thor came along - back when Asgardians were more ... warmongers, Hela wielded Mjolnir. How was she ever worthy?

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Okoye has become my favorite female character in the MCU but Gamora is still high up too. I like Valkyrie as well but Gamora is a more layered character at this point.

Does this movie pass the Bechdel Test? Obviously there were strong women in this. But part of the test is also if the women aren’t just talking about the men when they aren’t on screen and I can’t remeber them not.

The scene with Okoye and Nakia after T'Challa's death where they were arguing over whether to rebel or remain loyal. That's one of the best scenes in the film. Shuri checking on Nakia after she is injured by Killmonger. Ramonda telling Nakia that she should take the herb herself. The great thing about this movie and how it treats women is that even when there are scenes where men are mentioned, the women and their personalities are still allowed to shine.

 

[Xeno]

They all was not aware of Cap & Barnes secret....had they been aware, I can't see any of them supporting Cap, other than Falcon possibly...and I'm not quite sure he would either, given the loss of his own fellow wing pilot from back in the day.

Ever since CW, I've wondered whether there will be a scene in IW where Tony tells the rest of Team Cap that Steve had hidden the fact that Barnes assassinated his parents from everyone. It will be hard for Steve to maintain his noble and pure of heart facade if that glaring omission is tackled honestly.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Before Thor came along - back when Asgardians were more ... warmongers, Hela wielded Mjolnir. How was she ever worthy?

A good answer to your question is as follows below.....perhaps:

Odin enchanted Mjolnir with the "worthy" aspect. It wasn't built into the hammer itself to that point. Before Thor's exile, technically anyone could have lifted it.

True...but the enchantment could have activated the Soul Stone will, so no other could lift it but he who is worthy. Does not negate the Gem being used in the forging process...Odin just has to activate it like Winter Soldier call words when the time arises. In this case Thor"s return from exile.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Ever since CW, I've wondered whether there will be a scene in IW where Tony tells the rest of Team Cap that Steve had hidden the fact that Barnes assassinated his parents from everyone. It will be hard for Steve to maintain his noble and pure of heart facade if that glaring omission is tackled honestly.

That's a great point; yet, for the Russo brother to tackled it honestly, would open up a can of more worms about his character...and they just could not allow that for the title character...you know what I'm saying. This was Caps movie; so, they allowed a little vulnerable characters flaws, without delving to deep into it. That was never going to happen...especially the way Cap chastised Fury about Shield potency to enact fear & Hydra infiltation, in just the previous film.

 

[Winterfell]

Agreed about BP. Not so much about Guardians. Valkyrie was better than any of GotG's female characters, imo. I also like Scarlet Witch better than them as well.

eh, I would say Wanda is the worst out of all of them because she's the one that feels the most like an afterthought. Gamora and Nebula were at least pretty central in the GOTG films. Wanda felt "just there" in CW.

 

[Mjölnir]

Before Thor came along - back when Asgardians were more ... warmongers, Hela wielded Mjolnir. How was she ever worthy?

Mjolnir never had the worthiness enchantment until Thor is banished in the first film, and as we see in Ragnarok she's just more powerful than that enchantment anyway.

I don't believe Mjolnir has anything to do with the Soul Stone, nor do I think that stone is anywhere we've seen.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Ever since CW, I've wondered whether there will be a scene in IW where Tony tells the rest of Team Cap that Steve had hidden the fact that Barnes assassinated his parents from everyone. It will be hard for Steve to maintain his noble and pure of heart facade if that glaring omission is tackled honestly.

I highly doubt we're getting a round table chair scene where Tony just throws Cap under the bus. More likely, they will just have some tension when they're in the room for the first time together again and they will just forgive each other and move on to fighting Thanos.

I cannot disagree more with your views on Cap, but I don't want to derail a Black Panther thread with that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Mjolnir never had the worthiness enchantment until Thor is banished in the first film, and as we see in Ragnarok she's just more powerful than that enchantment anyway.

I don't believe Mjolnir has anything to do with the Soul Stone, nor do I think that stone is anywhere we've seen.

Mjolnir also may have recognized her. Since she was a past wielder of it. Might have overridden the enchantment. But, like you, I just read it as she was just that powerful.

I have been saying now for a while, I think Captain Marvel is going to feature the Soul Stone more prominently and explain it. It might be in IW and we may see it a little bit, but I think the film that will explain it proper is Captain Marvel, and it will be used to explain her absence since the 90s.

 

[Mjölnir]

Mjolnir also may have recognized her. Since she was a past wielder of it. Might have overridden the enchantment. But, like you, I just read it as she was just that powerful.

I have been saying now for a while, I think Captain Marvel is going to feature the Soul Stone more prominently and explain it. It might be in IW and we may see it a little bit, but I think the film that will explain it proper is Captain Marvel, and it will be used to explain her absence since the 90s.

Yes, Captain Marvel seems like a good guess. The only downside is that it might lead to yet another stone having ties to Earth, but we'll see how they handle it.

 

[javonstokess]

I'm very glad the Soul Stone was not in Wakanda OR Thor: Ragnarok. The movie needed to stand on it's own and not be forcibly tied into the upcoming Infinity War.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes, Captain Marvel seems like a good guess. The only downside is that it might lead to yet another stone having ties to Earth, but we'll see how they handle it.

Let's be honest though, it was inevitably happening that way. Captain Marvel also will deal with alien races and likely space battles, so very possible the conclusion of Captain Marvel is off Earth/Soul Stone ends up off Earth as a result.

Spoiler

The tie-in comic seems to hint that it is on Titan potentially. So it may still not be on Earth come IW.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I think Cap's super soldier strength and long life of military training gives him the edge. You gotta figure Cap's military and fighting experience greatly exceeds Killmonger's and Killmonger beat BP hand to hand.

Cap is perfect tactically. Every time. I consider it to be his most significant superpower. Always the right move.

And keep in mind that mcu cap is unambiguously superhuman in all his physical atributes including his brain. Hes not merely "peak human" like the comics.
Hand to hand without suits or weapons, cap wins. Eventually.

Plus cap, like Kilmonger, has vast combat experience . And theyve both killed a ton of people in the process. BP doesnt have this experience.

Given Erics motivation level and the fact that hed been planning for that one fight for 20 years, its no surprise he bested t'challa.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Spoiler

The tie-in comic seems to hint that it is on Titan potentially. So it may still not be on Earth come IW.

Hmmm...can you elaborate more?