Bought/thought 02/07/07

[wobbly]

Nah he's traced it.

When the items are identical it no longer comes under 'reference', the folds in the cloth give it away.

I disagree. Unless there is a public photo taken from that exact same angle of the statue then it still falls under reference (imo), no matter how closely he followed it. Giving the artist the benefit of the doubt*, I'd guess he owns or has access to the statue and sat it at an angle he liked and followed that. IF that is the case then he has done no more than any artist does in a still life class, when painting a portrait, landscape etc: he has drawn what was in front of him rather than what was right under his hand.

*I'd give the guy this as it is clear he can draw and though he followed the statue he maintained his own style in it's rendering. Tracers, especially the more notorious ones, usually lack the ability to draw well or maintain much consistency in style as a result.

 

[Tropico]

Nah he's traced it.

When the items are identical it no longer comes under 'reference', the folds in the cloth give it away.

Wobbly already gave the example of a still life, landscape, etc. It's one of the reasons why I don't see it as 'tracing'.

Lands a spectacularly well known tracer mind you, just search for the thread and you'll see loads of examples.

I know about the Greg Lands phenomenon. Bullet Points is illustrated by Tommy Lee Edwards. Since I know all artists are encouraged to draw from life, even comic book pros will tell you this, I give the guy the benefit of the doubt before making harsh comments, especially since I haven't seen any comments about him being the next Greg Lands.

Animators are a different thing entirely also the maquettes are created by them (or whomever they work with) to maintain a consitency across the show. The have reason and liscence to copy someone elses work.
Here lands just stealing whomever made that statues design work.
Terrible analogy.

Nice!up: Let's take this point by point, shall we?
-Animators are a different thing entirely? Because they have to do a sequence of images instead of panels that show a more dilated passage of time? I thought it was still drawing sometimes something you see, sometimes making stuff up. The media might be different but the process of creating it is basically the same.
-The maquettes or models: the rule is that there are sculptors who do the models and hand them off to the 2-D artists, the exception is the very few "pencillers' that do their own maquettes.
-Is the statue a Marvel product that a Marvel employee used to make a consistent image of a Marvel character? Looks like it. It seems to me like he has reason and license to use the statue as reference, too.
-BTW, if you look at the statue you would realize that for the person to have "traced" the statue he would have had to have taken a picture of the statue at a different angle, inverted it horizontally (the raised arm is on the opposite side of how the statue is shown) and then traced it.
-To you it's a terrible analogy, to me it just sound like you're being argumentative because of your bias against an artist who, guess what?, isn't the one who drew this. Calling you ignorant would be a little harsh, so I'll just chalk it up to you being enthusiastic and reading the name Lands in one of the previous posts and assuming it was him.

 

[Tropico]

Let me get this back on topic....

Helmet of Fate: Sargon the Sorcerer-
Well, there's very little Fate here (as in practically nothing) and a lot of Sargon and his bloodline, so if you're looking to get your "Fate fix" here you're better off waiting. I liked the art a lot and the story was good for a run of the mill mystical origin.

Sargon's grandson, David Sargent; a wandering bum who had pretty much given up on life, is found on some god forsaken highway/road by two gentlemen in a limo. It's very convenient but, hey, we're dealing with magic here. The "state executors" take David to his granpa's mansion, fool him into signing the estate over to them and try to kill him. David escapes thanks to a red glowing stair ladder that takes him to the attic where he's confronted by his deceased granpa's projection. Meanwhile we find out that the Ruby of Life has been splintered and the con men had a sliver of it and used it to turn into demons to hunt after David. The Helm of Fate appears, called by Sargon, but it's only as a distraction for the demons. Sargon explains that he was really a superhero and not just a stage magician to David, what's left of the Ruby embeds itself in David's chest and he's given a new purpose: find the rest of the pieces of the Ruby and do good with his powers. David deals pretty easily (and somewhat gruesomely) with his attackers.

I know it sounds very run of the mill, but I don't know why I liked it a lot.

Ghost Rider: Tail of Tears-
This is another issue that, although not a lot happens, it left me with a very good impression. It basically sets up Travis Parham as a Civil War (the old one, not the new Marvelized crap) soldier who is left for dead on the battle field. He's rescued by Caleb, a black man that makes his living by gathering weapons and other sundries he scavenges from battlefields, and taken to Caleb's farm. Travis stays with the family and works the land to repay Caleb, even though Caleb tells him that his debt has been paid months ago.

One day Travis accidentally discovers some of the bones and skulls of Caleb's ancestors in a tree and when he touches them he sees a vision of a skeleton with a flaming skull. Caleb finds him and explains that it's a practice from his ancestor's African religion for the spirits of the old to look after the newer generation and warns Caleb to never go to the tree again. More time goes by, Civil War is over and Travis decides to leave for California. Caleb warns him that no matter where he goes there will always be fighting; it doesn't matter if it's over land or race, going to the West is not an escape. We're set up for next issue's tragedy (and probably the reason for the Spirit of Vengeance) as we're left with the image with a trio of hooded men on a hill overlooking Caleb's property.

 

[Darthphere]

You know, its pretty tiring that people dont see the difference between referencing and tracing anymore.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm really loving these Helmet of Fate stories

 

[iloveclones]

-Is the statue a Marvel product that a Marvel employee used to make a consistent image of a Marvel character? Looks like it. It seems to me like he has reason and license to use the statue as reference, too.

The first artist on the short-lived Thing series said in an interview that he had a Thing statue made that he could reference so he could always get the rock-formations consistent.

There's a big difference between referencing and tracing. I think if you can't superimpose the one over the other, than it's just referencing. For the record, I don't particularly care for artists who use models for every panel. I think it's limiting, and non-dynamic, which comics should be.

 

[Tropico]

I'm really loving these Helmet of Fate stories

Cool! Detective Chimp was very good. Ibis the Invincible was kinda meh for me. The only part I liked was the complaining god, especially how he made fun of the bird neck.up:

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm such a sucker for magic that I had to be on board for Fate's return. I'll gobble up all the DC magician books...except Zatanna. I hate that broad.

In Ibis, I loved how the kid found all these rituals and spells on the freaking internet.

 

[Darthphere]

I'm such a sucker for magic that I had to be on board for Fate's return. I'll gobble up all the DC magician book...except Zatanna. I hate that broad.

I dont care what I get for this, but, you're gay.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Porquoi?

 

[Darthphere]

Porquoi?

Nuff said.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Darth, we're too old to like a character simply for her breasts right? That's GAH crap.

 

[Darthphere]

Darth, we're too old to like a character simply for her breasts right? That's GAH crap.

Its more than the breasts dude, its the vagina.

 

[Red]

Damn did New Avengers #27 ever suck.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Aaaaaah, sign me up for Power Girl then.

 

[AndThePickles]

Its more than the breasts dude, its the vagina.

That screams GAH even more

 

[Darthphere]

That screams GAH even more

What if I said I loved her winning personality and use of her powers?

 

[AndThePickles]

What if I said I loved her winning personality and use of her powers?

Cool, now you're jag

 

[Phaedrus45]

Bought:

Essential Ms. Marvel Vol. 1
Fantastic Four-The End #5
X-Men Annual #1
X-23 #3
X-Men - Warsong #5
Uncanny X-Men #483
Punisher #44
The Dark Tower - The Gunslinger Born #1
Squadron Supreme - Hyperion vs. Nighthawk #2
Ultimate Spider-Man #105
New Avengers #27
Iron Man - Hypervelocity #2
Ms. Marvel #12
Incredible Hulk #103
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #17
Spider-Man - Reign #3
Spider-Man/Power Pack #4
Marvel Adventures - Spider-Man #24
Ghost Rider - Trail Of Tears #1
Irredeemable Ant-Man #5
Bullet Points #4
White Tiger #4
New Universal #3
American Virgin #11
Welcome To Tranquility #3
Midnighter #4
Sam Noir - Ronin Holiday #1
Lone Ranger #4
The Secret #1
Jonah Hex #16
All-New Atom #8
Outsiders #45
Batman - Detective Comics #828
Birds Of Prey #102
Mystery In Space #6
Sargon The Sorcerer #1
52 - Week 40
Action Comics Annual #10
Supergirl #14

Thought:

Fantastic Four - The End #5: One of the best The End stories Marvel has put out yet. In fact, it's almost too much. I'm not sure how they will finish this story with the next issue; after all, it isn't until the final pages that the entire FF is together for the first time in the first five issues. My only complaint with the The End stories is that none of them seem to tie in with the others in any way. The X-Men The End story seems completely separate from this Fantastic Four The End story. 8/10

X-Men Annual #1: This is a nice annual that sets up future storylines in upcoming X-Men books. We finally get answers to what's happened with many of our favorite villians who have been missing over the years, like Exodus and Random, and we get a conclusion to everything that's happened to Northstar and Aurora. In the end, this is just a set-up for events to follow later, though. 8/10

X-23 #3: I absolutely loved the first X-23 miniseries, and this second series is really holding it's own. Just as brutal as the first, this issue skips around various moments in X-23's past, and we see how she did a hit for Kingpin a few years ago. Plus, just as the first series ended in tragedy, it seems like things aren't going to get any better for her the second time around. Can't wait for next month's issue. The art of Choi and Oback lends itself beautifully to the book, too. 10/10

X-Men: Phoenix - Warsong #5: I loved the idea of focusing on the Stepford Cuckoos; but, with this issue, the story is just so far-fetched and unbelievable, this goes down as one of the worst X-Men stories I've read in years. There comes a point at the end of the book where one of the Stepford Cuckoos says, "If I could feel anything .... I think I would cry." All I could think at that moment, after feeling numb from reading such a crappy ending to this crappy title, "If I could feel anything ... I think I would puke." Supposedly, by the end (SPOILER WARNING) the Phoenix entity is split up between the three remaining Cuckoos in their "organic diamond hearts," making sure "nothing on earth can get inside of them and the Phoenix fragments can't get out." Yes, it's just as bad as it sounds. 4/10

Uncanny X-Men #483: This really is the point where this 12 issue story has jumped the shark. I've been following along, loving the story and everything they've done; but, the idea (SPOILER WARNING) of Vulcan hooking up with Deathbird, totally forgetting about his extreme grudge against D'Ken and the Shi'ar, and standing idley by while the murderer of his mother is only feet away from him seems to take the character of Vulcan in a completely different direction than this story or Deadly Genesis presented him to the readers before. In fact, when Vulcan says he can get D'Ken out of his coma and one of the Shi'ar thinks Vulcan might take the opportunity to kill D'Ken, Vulcan responds, "And there'd be no honor in killing him like this, anyway." Ummm, excuse me? Hasn't he been killing people with no thoughts or caring throughout the two story's he's been in so far? 6/10

Punisher #44: These past few storylines from Punisher have really been some of the best I've read. It's really nice that Ennis is taking past characters or storys and blending them into some new ones. This one takes various diverging storylines, and with this second issue, we see how they are coming together. (SPOILER WARNING)The "Wives Club" has picked up on Frank's weakness for abused women and children ... but, it's still not clear how the police officer and the woman with her breasts cut off fit into the story. We realize the cop somewhat appreciates how The Punisher can work outside of the law, taking care of the "bad element" he has to deal with on a daily basis without fear of incrimination; and, the woman is somehow going to hook up with the "Wives Club." Ennis really is at the top of his game with this title. 9/10

The Dark Tower - The Gunslinger Born #1: As someone else said previously, even though I know this story like the back of my hand, it's nice to put some pictures to the faces in my head. This issue, focusing on Roland's passage into manhood, sets up some of the demons that will haunt Roland's future adventures. For those unfamiliar with The Dark Tower, it will be a good introduction to the character of Roland; but, so far, it doesn't explain Roland's quest or what The Dark Tower is and why Roland is always drawn towards it. I'm just hoping this first comic series is successful enough that they make more in the years to come. 9/10

Squadron Supreme - Hyperion vs. Nighthawk #2: First, I'll get my complaint out of the way. I really don't want to read a spin-off miniseries about Squadron Supreme when they've left me hanging with their regular title months and months without a follow-up issue. I get a bit peeved to pick up a Squadron Supreme title that has nothing to do with the main story, only to remind me that it's been since November since issue #7 came out with a humongous cliff-hanger, still waiting yet to be resolved.

Ok, now that that's out of the way, I can complain about issue #2 of this miniseries. First, if you've read issue #1, don't expect much from issue #2. You know the two fight scenes between Hyperion and Nighthawk in that first issue? Well, they are re-told here, just from Nighthawk's perspective this time around. The only new portion of the fight is the last couple pages of the second fight. Otherwise, the entire book is pretty much a rehash of the first issue. At one point, Hyperion is quoted in the book as saying, "I'm disappointed." I know how he feels. 5/10

Ultimate Spider-Man #105: Ok, way back on the first page of this thread, Hippy started us all off by stating how terribly bad this issue and entire storyline was. (Which also started us off on another entirely different topic; but, I guess we'll let that sleeping dog lie.) Now, while I agreed that this was one of the worst when issue #100 came out, I've slightly back-stepped. After issue #101 was released, things started getting a bit better. I found myself liking the new Jessica Drew (even though her being Peter Parker is rather creepy), I was happy that Peter's father wasn't really Peter's father, and the complete craziness of all the clones finally simmered down in the end. This issue, focusing on Peter's personal life with SHIELD, Jessica Drew, Mary Jane, Aunt May, and Kitty Pryde, tidies everything up. In fact, the worst part of the whole thing is that the romance between Peter and Kitty was never really fully explored by Bendis. He could have done so much more with it, as his Annual #1 showed; but, it almost became a passing thought. He still focused on Mary Jane throughout these past couple years more than Kitty and Peter. Overall, Bendis' Clone Saga will go down as one of his worst Ultimate Spider-Man storylines; and, whether that assessment is fair or not doesn't speak for the fact that at least he tried to do something with a very controversial storyline for his landmark 100th issue. 7/10

Essential Ms. Marvel Vol. 1: In this tpb, you get the entire Ms. Marvel (Vol. 1) series from 1977, issues 1-23, plus the Marvel Super-Heroes Magazine appearances from issue 10 and 11 completing where that series failed to end (issue #23 promised Ms. Marvel vs. Sabretooth; but it never came out; this tpb even reprints the original cover that would have been released back in 1979 for that issue), and gives the historical Avenger's Annual #10, in which Rogue stole Carol Danver's powers. Essential's are simply the best and cheapest tpb's you can buy from Marvel. 10/10

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Squadron Supreme - Hyperion vs. Nighthawk #2: First, I'll get my complaint out of the way. I really don't want to read a spin-off miniseries about Squadron Supreme when they've left me hanging with their regular title months and months without a follow-up issue. I get a bit peeved to pick up a Squadron Supreme title that has nothing to do with the main story, only to remind me that it's been since November since issue #7 came out with a humongous cliff-hanger, still waiting yet to be resolved.

 

[Brainiac 8]

t:

 

[Anubis]

GAH crap? WTF? He hates breasts and Vaginas. That's why he keeps offing those hookers and dressing them up like female super heroes.

 

[gildea]

-BTW, if you look at the statue you would realize that for the person to have "traced" the statue he would have had to have taken a picture of the statue at a different angle, inverted it horizontally (the raised arm is on the opposite side of how the statue is shown) and then traced it.

Yup thats what it looks like happened, a switched picture

-To you it's a terrible analogy, to me it just sound like you're being argumentative because of your bias against an artist who, guess what?, isn't the one who drew this. Calling you ignorant would be a little harsh, so I'll just chalk it up to you being enthusiastic and reading the name Lands in one of the previous posts and assuming it was him.

Yup you got me there I thought it was Land

-Animators are a different thing entirely? Because they have to do a sequence of images instead of panels that show a more dilated passage of time? I thought it was still drawing sometimes something you see, sometimes making stuff up. The media might be different but the process of creating it is basically the same.

Animators aren't paid to draw in their own style, comic book artists are by taking someone else's design there is a significant difference (ie there is no consistant doom), I agree the creating process is the same but the methodology is highly different.

Regardless it is unfair, as you correctly point out, for me to judge an artist based on one panel so I guess I should just apologise and leave it at that.

Sorry about that.

 

[Tropico]

Uncanny X-Men #483: This really is the point where this 12 issue story has jumped the shark. I've been following along, loving the story and everything they've done; but, the idea (SPOILER WARNING) of Vulcan hooking up with Deathbird, totally forgetting about his extreme grudge against D'Ken and the Shi'ar, and standing idley by while the murderer of his mother is only feet away from him seems to take the character of Vulcan in a completely different direction than this story or Deadly Genesis presented him to the readers before. In fact, when Vulcan says he can get D'Ken out of his coma and one of the Shi'ar thinks Vulcan might take the opportunity to kill D'Ken, Vulcan responds, "And there'd be no honor in killing him like this, anyway." Ummm, excuse me? Hasn't he been killing people with no thoughts or caring throughout the two story's he's been in so far? 6/10

Like I said before, apparently Deathbird has magical naughty parts that enable her to wrap men around her little finger. There's not much else that can justify Vulcan's behavior. That he was humbled by the Imperial Guard wouldn't make him more honorable, there's no reason for not taking the opportunity to kill D'ken. Are we supposed to forget all the characterization in the mini that introduced him and all the heinous crap he did? Are we supposed to forget the killing spree he's been on since he got to Sh'iar space? If we had banged Deathbird, we would have. But, that's ok, I'm banking on it just being a set up where Vulcan gets betrayed, D'ken gets killed and Deathbird comes out smelling like roses thus earning the popularity she says she lacks to be able to rule effectively.

 

[Brainiac 8]

It's because Vulcan really likes having Hot rough dirty bird lady sex.