TheCorpulent1
SHAZAM!
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iKnow. 

This is exactly the problem. Hulk is a dozen times more callous and careless and unrestrained in a fight than other superbeings with his strength level...Thor, Juggernaut, Sentry, any variety of DC heroes, you name it...And Thor apparently doesnt have Banner's mathematical ability or perception..![]()
You have a point. I hadn't read FNSM either.
I did "flip through" INCREDIBLE HULK #110, and by that I mean "scimmed". So I do sort of know what everyone is talking about in terms of "the explaination".
I...had a hard time swallowing it, honestly. I definately don't want Hulk to be retroactively made into a mass murderer who has killed people in rampages, because then you are completely unable to root for him, unless you are a sociopath without any sense of morality (or one who believes no one really has any morals), like Mark Millar's theme in ULTIMATES. But I would rather suspend belief than easily accept the explaination that Rampaging Hulk does "subconcious bull**** math equations in his head to prevent innocents from dying". Especially since while Hulk hasn't murdered civilians on-panel before, other heroes HAVE gotten into battles with him to prevent damages or injuries during rampages.
Really, was suspending belief with the Hulk so bad? Must everything either be grim, violent, and ugly or else have some implausibly fantastic explanation? This all began because Bendis, and likely Millar and some of the editors, back in the early 2000's, when Ultimate was hot ****, believed that the best way to improve 616 was to strip-mine the talent and ideas from Ultimate and force them into 616. And part of that was Millar's sadistical, mass murdering, cannibal Hulk who then can turn around and be a hero. But Ultimate is a new universe, so it works there. The problem is that Bendis & Millar have never adjusted as well to 616 because that requires sharing characters, ideas, and concepts with other people in the past, present, and future, and they are both too egotistical, selfish, and arrogant to accept that. Which wouldn't be a problem if the editorial board didn't decide to either throw out what has worked for 40 years to cave into "the new fad", or allow both to confuse the **** out of readers. But they do. Trust me, in a decade, "grim and gritty" will be the "spiked shoulderpads" of the 2000's.
A Hulk who kills people is not a character who can be rooted for, period. A Hulk who has left innocents dead is someone who should be destroyed, and it is a Hulk that proves every word Thunderbolt Ross has ever said about him right. But that doesn't mean that in order to accept that Hulk hasn't outright killed anyone, that I can swallow that 24/7, regardless of whether Hulk is the Professor or Savage or Joe Fixit, he always does math in his head and subconciously holds back. I could seen some incarnations of Hulk doing that. Not all. And not all the time.
But I guess fans like me are dwindling, fans who read a Hulk story and didn't obsess about why a hundred fatalities didn't result from Hulk tearing up a street to throw at Absorbing Man. Fans who could accept a rampage without needing to see or hear about bodies laying in heaps somewhere. When the hell did comics become so god damned self-defeating? And when the hell is it going to stop!? Attacking the genre expectations and then feeling the need to remove them, mock them, or ridiculously explain them rarely add anything of value.
It reminds me of a more extended version of the fan who can accept that Banner gains a ton of mass from nowhere, turns green and whatnot, yet complains about why the pants always stay intact. Do we need some baloney explaination for that? Or can we prioritize?
So, Cho's theory in #110, I wasn't 100% gung-ho for it, but I'd rather that then Bendis having Hulk eat people in Vegas and other writer's attempts to retroactively insert fatalities into Hulk's stories, especially when a few treated a single supposed death as a big deal.
I also am in the thought that if a villain and a hero are fighting, any damages and deaths that occur should usually be blamed on the villain for committing a crime or being a wanted felon in the first place (Nitro could have always surrendered, plead guilty, worked on good behavior; running from the law is always a choice). But the concept of punishing heroes for every mistake but collectively saying, "baddies will be baddies" at every atrocity I guess creates drama and keeps stuff "grim".
With dread 100% here.
Up until this part anyway where it goes wildly off the rails and starts making stupid assumptions and insulting people he has never met (and factually incorrect as well).
Preach on brother![]()
So reducing Dread's points:
1. It's kind of stupid to have Hulk doing super-Hulkmath to not harm bystanders.
2. It's even stupider to have Hulk just killing innocent civilians all over the place.
3. It's unfortunately the case that 1 is necessary to keep Millar and Bendis from doing 2.
4. Millar and Bendis are *******s.
Assuming I haven't missed anything important I can definitely say we are agreed on all counts.
Dread while I respect you, you are clearly being foolish on this one. if you want hulk to be a teddy bear, whos child like rampages never cause any harm, then why he **** does banner and awhole bunch of people try and get rid of him?! why has the hulk story always been a jekyll and Hyde one, and not a Jekyll and mis understood super non death teddy bear one?! you not suppose to root for the hulk, why would you root for a creature that cuuses unheard of destuction when he gets alittle mad? I don't understand you people, why the hell is so wrong about hulk killing people accidently, he is a freaking monster! you say you hate Bendis retcons, but Paks supermath crap topes anything bendis has done IMO.
Naturally, you're free to disagree about my opinions on writers. Let's just say that if they aren't as I described in RL, that is how they usually come off in their writing and interviews (and the shared quirk of when FINALLY doing something that fans have collectively called for, doing it in a petty, ass-backwards ******ed way as if to try to "prove" the fans know nothing)
that is how I call it. In their defense, it isn't all their fault; coddling from all their bosses at Marvel has made them that way. I mean, if I wrote for Marvel and I not only sold well, but all of my superiors treated my dime a dozen storylines as the greatest thing since plumbing before they were even published, I'd probably be an arrogant **** too.
What really burns my arse is that the entire "Hulk slaughters people" that has been shoved into 616 by Bendis wasn't even in a Hulk comic...but in a NEW AVENGERS one-shot, in which Hulk wasn't even a starring character.
And despite that, it is not only accepted into canon, but now other writers have to work with it or around it,
and the editors are divided over it and usually let both sides squabble. How is it that Bendis can dramatically alter the accepted status quo of a character from a 5 page sequence in a one-shot, and it is accepted down the line,
but Bendis can pick and choose what to accept and what to ignore or retcon about the dozens of other characters that he uses as regulars?
It reaks of hypocrisy, and despite all the reasons Marvel may have for it (he is their #1 selling ongoing writer), it is almost unheard of until now that one person who isn't an editor has this much power over the characters of the entire universe, and many fans get tired of the smell of it.
Instant top 10 seller. That's your explanation.
Why is it that Bendis gets to change whatever the **** he wants, but when someone takes the ball away from him, and re-sets continuity back where it has been for 40 years, it'a a "retcon"?![]()
Can someone explain that to me?
I agree.Granted. But it STILL sucks.
Ahhh the most amusing thing about this is you and I are in complete agreement about how the hulk should be handled too![]()
Why is it that Bendis gets to change whatever the **** he wants, but when someone takes the ball away from him, and re-sets continuity back where it has been for 40 years, it'a a "retcon"?![]()
Can someone explain that to me?
Okay, I am gonna call "******o" on this. As in, "you are." It isn't like Bendis has Night Nurse dating Iron Fist, ignoring what BKV set up. He just hasn't mentioned anything about the relationship.Dread said:The irony is when someone chages something about one of HIS characters, he usually completely ignores it; he's had about 5 months to work with the fact that BKV had Night Nurse start dating Dr. Strange, and he hasn't. I actually believe it will be referenced at some point, but it should have been handled more organically.