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BOUGHT/THOUGHT Thread for 6/14/06: SPOILERS Inside!

deemar325 said:
I just found it interesting, although truth be told I'd think most black superheroes would be on the anti-SHRA side. We're naturaly paranoid of the government to begin with.

Cap getting no play with the media, I think it was Agent Hill's intent from the get-go to make Cap a fugitive, she seems to have it in for Cap and anything to do with Nick Fury. This all could turn out to be a ruse by some supervillian like RedSkull or Kang.

Who knows?

Either way I can't wait for Agent Hill to get her comeuppance.
Marvel has insisted that there won't be "a supervillian cop-out" to CIVIL WAR. Of course, they once insisted that "dead is dead", so maybe one shouldn't take their statements at face value. Which is a bad lesson, because if Marvel cries wolf too often, people don't believe them. Hence why DEADLY GENESIS was supposedly "underordered". The audience had been sold too many worthless mini's under the premises that they "meant something" and didn't, especially for the overextended X-Line. So when one that DID have major changes came up, Marvel wasn't taken for their word and many shops didn't bite as hard as Marvel wanted.

But, I do fear Marvel writing themselves into a corner, or just stringing along the story for ANOTHER event, sort of like HOM merged into a prologue for DECIMATION (which most of the core X-books tried to ignore, leaving mini's to pretend it mattered, save X-FACTOR or NEW X-MEN, which aren't core X-books anyway).

You have a point; Agent Hill was gunning against Cap from the moment it became clear that he wasn't going to toe the line like she wanted, thus making it difficult for him to get the message out. But there are ways. The Internet, maybe? The point is that someone has to appear in front of a camera and offer the anti-SHRA agruement, otherwise Iron Man & Co. just have a monopoly on opinion. Of course, like I've said, Cap historically has underestimated his power in the stage of vocal PR at times; heck, if he'd run for President of Marvel's America years ago, you'd have to find a tough way for him NOT to win. He probably doesn't want to dictate orders on the government, merely serve in whatever America's best interests are. In CIVIL WAR, he feels it is un-American to make fugitives out of noble heroes who don't sign onto the payroll.
 
WOLVERINE25TH said:
You read me wrong, bub. I'm not sayin' she's gonna be a rehash, but she will bring somethin' back that's been missin' fer a long time; good, classic Wolverine. Much like what Spider-Girl did fer Spidey. And yeah, she was outta character in MTU. Big time. And technically it was RENDERED out of continuity.

I just can't get behind this character.
 
Dread said:
Marvel has insisted that there won't be "a supervillian cop-out" to CIVIL WAR. Of course, they once insisted that "dead is dead", so maybe one shouldn't take their statements at face value. Which is a bad lesson, because if Marvel cries wolf too often, people don't believe them. Hence why DEADLY GENESIS was supposedly "underordered". The audience had been sold too many worthless mini's under the premises that they "meant something" and didn't, especially for the overextended X-Line. So when one that DID have major changes came up, Marvel wasn't taken for their word and many shops didn't bite as hard as Marvel wanted.

But, I do fear Marvel writing themselves into a corner, or just stringing along the story for ANOTHER event, sort of like HOM merged into a prologue for DECIMATION (which most of the core X-books tried to ignore, leaving mini's to pretend it mattered, save X-FACTOR or NEW X-MEN, which aren't core X-books anyway).

You have a point; Agent Hill was gunning against Cap from the moment it became clear that he wasn't going to toe the line like she wanted, thus making it difficult for him to get the message out. But there are ways. The Internet, maybe? The point is that someone has to appear in front of a camera and offer the anti-SHRA agruement, otherwise Iron Man & Co. just have a monopoly on opinion. Of course, like I've said, Cap historically has underestimated his power in the stage of vocal PR at times; heck, if he'd run for President of Marvel's America years ago, you'd have to find a tough way for him NOT to win. He probably doesn't want to dictate orders on the government, merely serve in whatever America's best interests are. In CIVIL WAR, he feels it is un-American to make fugitives out of noble heroes who don't sign onto the payroll.

I'm of the mind that Millar will come through in the end, he's got a knack for villians and suprise endings as evident by issue #2 *Groan* As far as Marvel 'letting the cat out of the bag' yeah they are so money hungry in my opinion that they can't help, but spoil their own stories(at least the marketing department screwing up.)

As far as stringing us along, I think that's almost guaranteed. Especially if CW knock it outta the park sales-wise. It's a forgone conculsion, it's to profitable to slap on more mini's based on the event/mini that passed. I'm sure there will be an (Civil Action: Ironman 1 of 5) (Indentity Wars 1 of 4)
or (Civil War Redemption 1 of 3) or some such nonsense.

Cap using the internet? I can see that. I got a weird feeling though someone in Cap's camp is gonna betray him and I got a feeling it's gonna be Luke Cage.
 
deemar325 said:
I'm of the mind that Millar will come through in the end, he's got a knack for villians and suprise endings as evident by issue #2 *Groan* As far as Marvel 'letting the cat out of the bag' yeah they are so money hungry in my opinion that they can't help, but spoil their own stories(at least the marketing department screwing up.)

As far as stringing us along, I think that's almost guaranteed. Especially if CW knock it outta the park sales-wise. It's a forgone conculsion, it's to profitable to slap on more mini's based on the event/mini that passed. I'm sure there will be an (Civil Action: Ironman 1 of 5) (Indentity Wars 1 of 4)
or (Civil War Redemption 1 of 3) or some such nonsense.

Cap using the internet? I can see that. I got a weird feeling though someone in Cap's camp is gonna betray him and I got a feeling it's gonna be Luke Cage.
To be fair, some could say that if there were ZERO repurcussions or storyline ideas from CW used after it was over, it would be a waste, and they'd probably be right. I could probably see a title about some "registered" heroes on a strike team selling well, at least for a mini (sort of like SENTINAL ONE, only better). And at least Tigra (a cop) DID show up in CW #2. It makes perfect sense for her to support SHRA, since she already is in that boat.

I could also see Luke Cage having a good idea of how to "rally support from the streets" or something. NEW AVENGERS showed that he's a better speaker than he thinks, after all. He also knows what its like to be "in the public eye" and the dangers it entails from being a "hero for hire" for so long. I wonder if Iron Fist will be in the anti-SHRA camp, too? They've usually been just as loyal allies as Cap & Falcon have.

Millar has a better sense of action than Bendis does, he's good at the popcorn-movie surprises and so on. Which is what an event needs a little of; even IC had plenty of violent action (with Superboy-Prime plowing through C-Listers and all). I'm not sure if the arc will have a definatel "villian", but we're barely a 3rd through the story, and a lot more will likely happen in the next 6 months.
 
Dread said:
To be fair, some could say that if there were ZERO repurcussions or storyline ideas from CW used after it was over, it would be a waste, and they'd probably be right. I could probably see a title about some "registered" heroes on a strike team selling well, at least for a mini (sort of like SENTINAL ONE, only better). And at least Tigra (a cop) DID show up in CW #2. It makes perfect sense for her to support SHRA, since she already is in that boat.

I could also see Luke Cage having a good idea of how to "rally support from the streets" or something. NEW AVENGERS showed that he's a better speaker than he thinks, after all. He also knows what its like to be "in the public eye" and the dangers it entails from being a "hero for hire" for so long. I wonder if Iron Fist will be in the anti-SHRA camp, too? They've usually been just as loyal allies as Cap & Falcon have.

Millar has a better sense of action than Bendis does, he's good at the popcorn-movie surprises and so on. Which is what an event needs a little of; even IC had plenty of violent action (with Superboy-Prime plowing through C-Listers and all). I'm not sure if the arc will have a definatel "villian", but we're barely a 3rd through the story, and a lot more will likely happen in the next 6 months.


Heres the thing, why burden the reader with more mini's when they can just carry on the story within the ongoing books it affects? Yeah 'Son of M' was a welcome suprise, but that to me was a fluke. Just like Marvel Zombies was a fluke, all the mini's do is eat a hole in our pockets more.

What happen in Son of M could have been done in Uncanny or adjectiveless X-men or better yet a book that's really suffering like Thing,Runaways,or MTU.

Luke would know how to get the common man (whose not a hick from Kentucky) to back him up, but I still see Luke as the likely betrayer to Cap. I see it coming for some reason maybe his new wife and child?

I hope to god, someone like RedSkull or Hell maybe Hate-Monger is behind this. I needs my villians.
 
Cap's forming himself a nice little resistance. And just knowing that he's got Fury's support has got to help. I think we'll see Sue and Johnny take Cap's side as well.


Edit: I've never seen MJ look so unattractive before
 
Whatever,MJ looked hot.

Civil War #2-This book was THE BALLS.Simple as that.The suspense,the action,the action,the action,the reveals,the art,everything.Simply,THE BALLS.

Cap's alliance:Cable,Goliath,Hercules,Luke Cage,"DD",Cloak & Dagger,Young Avengers,(anyone know those 2 girls next to Cage?)

Tony's:Yellowjacket,She-Hulk,Doc Samson,Ms Marvel,Tigra,Mr.Fantastic,Spidey,possibly Thing

I don't get Wasp's view however.She seemed against it in #1,but was seen siding with She-Hulk,Hank,and Thing.There is a definite rift forming between Reed and Sue,I don't expect her to stay too long with the Pro-Regs.

Tony's side is looking much more powerful and more colorful.Cap's is definitely a rag-tag team,the underdogs.

Looking forward to this 42 and the eventual first battle.

I loved the Spidey reveal,it was written so well and looked great.I'm not up in arms about it as alot of people are,as long as this has ramifications.

The Balls.

10/10
 
GNR4Life said:
Cap's alliance:Cable,Goliath,Hercules,Luke Cage,"DD",Cloak & Dagger,Young Avengers,(anyone know those 2 girls next to Cage?)


That is a good character to have on ones side.:up:
 
this is all going to come down in some way or form to the HULK and what they did to him and what he's gonna do to THEM when he comes back with a BIG F_ing alien army.


I can't wait to see TOny's and Reed's faces when that happens
 
Civil War #2
Geez, they actually had a feature in MTV news about Spidey's whole speech thingy. Seems a bit excessive, but it's a hot topic obviously.

What can I say that hasn't already been said? Millar's still quite good, much better IMO than he is on some other titles of his that I've read, and it's very much a solid story with a lot of potential. Loved the action scenes, loved the dialogues between our "heroes," the whole registration side is represented in a much better light -- oh sure, Millar just couldn't help himself and just had to make one nameless faceless soldier an unreasonable bully -- but Iron Man's decisions and his arguments are much better presented. And hey, seeing Cable pop up out of nowhere ended up being a real treat for me.

So then...why am I so damned worried about it's all going to turn out?

(9 out of 10)


52 Week 6
Great week. The international border conflicts have Rucka's name written all over them, which is cool 'cause I love Rucka's political jargon. I dunno, it's a weakness.

At this point the plots for all the storylines are well on their way, which is almost unfortunate in a way because there's really just not enough room for all of these interesting plotlines. I mean, we've barely seen Ralph and Wonder Crazygirl for a whole month now, chronologically speaking, and they've got what seems like the most interesting plots going on...'course, I may just be saying that because it involves more of my more favorite characters.

(9 out of 10)


Green Lantern Corps #1
Nice continuation to the Green Lantern Corps: Recharge mini of last year...familiar characters with their familiar dramas abound. Guy is as feisty as ever, and the Guardians are as annoying as they've ever been in these last few years. The Lanterns and Oa are getting serious play in the DCU lately, and I really like how they're being presented both visually and narratively; that shot of the entire planet of Oa being surrounded by a lantern-looking armor was pretty damn cool. I like Natu, and it seems like a year has done a lot to our other two former rookies.

I just hope that someone at some point is going to acknowledge the fact that the Guardians being giant ***** is what turned a lot of people off to them the first time around. Unless there's a really damn good reason coming up really damn soon for their standoffish ways in both this series and in Ion.

(8.9 out of 10)


Green Arrow #63
Okay issue. Maybe I'm still coming off the high of the last issue, which was absolutely awesome, but this one seemed to be a lot of talking, mostly plot-building, nothing extraordinarily interesting stood out to me. I mean, Ollie's assistant rags on him for his tactics, which seem a bit strange to me since his tactics were quite reasonable and logical to me, from Deathstroke's prep-time takedown to his takeover of weapons corporations to stock up his fortunes. Mutants are attacking Star City -- again -- and we'll see where this goes. I miss Connor and Mia.

(7 out of 10)


Testament #6
After the recent lull in the series' quality, this issue imo gets it really, really right. There was an interesting, easy to follow plot, metaphored in the series' signature style with pretty much the most known Bible story of all time. The banter between the gods make much more sense and are much more significant. I almost wish that this had been the first issue, considering the context of the story.

On that note, whatever the heck happened to the ongoing storyline that was going on just last issue?? I mean, are we just taking a break from that arbitrarily?

(8.8 out of 10)
 
Captain Atom: Armageddon #9 of 9 - Good ending to a great series. Reading this book has got me a lot more interested in the WS Universe and now that it is being rebuilt or whatever I am going to start buying some more books from them.

Superman #653 - Lots of action this issue. I am really enjoying this story but the next team for Superman has me more excited.

52 Week Six - I love the pacing for this book and having one come once a week really gives you a good feel for how much really happens in a week in the DCU. I haven't been a hardcore DC fan for very long and the History of the DCU is filling me in on a lot of things I didn't even no happened and I find it real helpful.

Firestorm The Nuclear Man #26 - I like this book a lot. The OYL story has been really interesting with Jason Rusch having to run around looking for Professor Stein merged with Firehawk is really entertaining. Jason finally found Stein but he had been killed by The Pupil and now Jason has been captured and is being forced to merge with a dead Stein so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Annihilation: Super Skrull #3 of 4 - This one was okay. Super Skrull was betrayed and is now a prisoner of Annihilus.

JLA: Classified #22 - Meh. This arc is sucking compared the last one, Lucky for me it is only two issues.

Superman Returns Prequel: Ma Kent - Much better than the last one. Martha looks back upon memories of Clarks childhood and talks about how much she misses Clark. Overall it is a very touching and well written story.
 
Dread said:
Ah, yes, and Spider-Man revealing his identity. I already stated that requiring heroes who fully obey the SHRA and reveal their ID's to the government to also do it publically (and make their enemies' jobs a million times easier) is unfair and very naive. And it also takes Spider-Man outside of his realm of existance and into something that feels, well, generic. Not only is he living in an ivory tower in the sky, with nanobot armor, the right-hand of a psuedo politician-armored hero and member of his planet's premire superhero team, but now he is also an instant celebrity. He's basically Booster Gold with a family now. Or perhaps The Flash, back when his own ID was public. The problem, of course, is that those things weren't what made Spider-Man popular in the first place. What made him popular was his ability to mingle a soap opera lifestyle that was relatable to most readers while also mixing in a lot of superhero drama. Poor Peter would struggle to pay the bills, live an honest life and take care of May, but would have to miss his hot date with MJ because Shocker was robbing the mint again. Everyone knows what its like to have a day turn against you, and that's what Spider-Man had. Joe Q blames the loss of this on the simple act of "marrying a supermodel", but that was really nothing that couldn't have worked; in fact, it worked well since the 80's to the point where the cartoons and movies since couldn't have FUNCTIONED without MJ being key to Spidey's world. Using the Flash as an example, outing his ID proved to be a shocking plot development and one that "opened new doors for stories"...for about 1-2 years. Then it was obvious that DC regretted the decision, and so they did some major "cosmic baloney" to undo it and erase that knowledge from the minds of the general public (which wasn't a picnic for Wally either). The same will happen to Spider-Man. We'll have the "usual gang of people who support everything" in and outside Marvel talking about what a great chance this is for Peter to grow, and for some interesting plot developments to occur because of it, and they'd be right; assuming the Spider-writers use it efficiently (which, after THE OTHER, is debatable). But after 1-2 years, especially when SPIDER-MAN 3 is hitting theatres and Spidey's still a secret identity hero and adheres to most of his "formula", Marvel will backpeddle, and need an "out". Some say Loki, others say Dr. Strange, but it all amounts to "cosmic baloney" that makes you go, "What was the point? Couldn't Marvel's editorial staff forsee the effects of their own medium, or are they so eager to make bucks that they string us along anyway?" The reveal wasn't even a huge shocker, as I stated, the last ASM issue made it all but inevitable. Its simply a shame that I've not read Spider-books on a regular basis for years because they kept bungling him in the name to "reinvent" him or "change" something, and that process continues, into the point where Spider-Man is now all but generic. Incidentally, Peter now claims he started his career at 15, even though past sources and comics clearly stated him as being 16. The point? In Marvel time, "10 years" have passed since 1961 and now, which means that if Peter started at 16, he's now 26, maybe almost 27 -- gasp, "pushing" 30! Whereas if he was 15, he is now 25, which is apparently "safer".

Hence is the problem with "events" in the comic medium. American comics remain loyal to a "neverending story", and that means that you can't stretch a property too far from what made it work in the first place, or it becomes unrecognizable. But "events" only work if they mean permanent change, and Marvel's shown that anything from the past, present, or future can be undone at a whim with a "retcon" if it means getting another book in the Top 10. Rely on it too much and you get apathy.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one, Dread.
 
Well judging on how people are reacting over Spider-Man going public like the Fantastic Four, Captain America, Iron Man, and others, I think that it is safe to say that Miller has successfully broke the internet in half.

SUCK IT BENDIS! :p
 
i really liked the marvel western comic, but i'm looking forward to the upcoming ones more. it kinda made me wish there was an ongoing marvel western series right now.
 
what major heros are left with a secret identity, Daredevil and now Spidey is gone, FF has always been, Cap, Iron Man......who's left?
 
Dread said:
Yes, I just didn't feel like noting "race" in the above narrative. But yeah, Falcon, Luke Cage, Patriot (and the YA), Cloak, and apparently Bill Foster are both on Cap's anti-SHRA side. It remains to be seen what side Black Panther takes, but he may take a stance of "noninvolvement unless you threaten Wakanda" sort of thing. On the other hand, as Black Panther has been an active hero in the U.S.A. for long periods of time, I could see some agents perhaps giving him trouble. I could suppose that perhaps that is also a sign of the anti-SHRA being the "left" opinion, with the pro-SHRA being the "right".

I could see Panther not choosing sides publicly, but secretly supporting one side on the sly. most likely Captain America's. as Panther and Iron Man have been at odds several times in the past.
 
Civil War- It starts with one of the most amazing first pages ever. The Vulture and the Grim Reaper, beaten and defeated, beautifully illustrated by McNiven. Cap was here. We move on to see more humanizing of the Pro-Registration's side. Then Cap kicks more ass alongside his partner who also manages to kick major ass. Then three pages that made so many emotions rise inside of me. I laughed, I nearly cried... time will tell whether or not this is wise, but for now? PICK OF THE YEAR. 10/10

Spider-Girl- Wow. I thought Pete, wearing his old costume, was going to be the one impaled. Man, it's pretty much assured that my girl's getting a re-launch, but DeFalco's sure making this and Last Planet Standing a nail biter! Issue #100, I can't wait! 9/10

Cable and Deadpool- Loved Domino's fears and how she wants to trust Nate. The Civil War arc should be really good. Cable just took over another country. This man is dangerous. Can't wait to see if the government tries going after him. 9/10

Wolverine: Origins- Hmmm... interesting. We watch Nuke's ****ed up childhood unfold, but it seems a little odd. The whys are still there. Hopefully next issue will clear up more. 7/10

Sensational Spider-Man- Let me get this straight. Medina is totally sucking on this arc, so they put Clayton Crain on last issue, who, despite a ho-hum script, nails it out of the park with one of the coolest images of Spidey's new suit yet. After that, they think "Hmmm. Let's get that crappy guy back!" What the ****? Ugh. It's too bad, because had Crain done the entire arc it wouldn't have been so bad. As it stands, instead of a decent arc, we get a very forgetable Spider-Tale. 5/10

Also bought:
Marvel Legends Marvel Masterpieces: Fantastic 4 #1- Woah. Saw this at Wal-Mart and had to own it. An amazingly cool diorama of the FF's first fight. Way too cool for words.
 
Dread said:
You have a point; Agent Hill was gunning against Cap from the moment it became clear that he wasn't going to toe the line like she wanted, thus making it difficult for him to get the message out. But there are ways. The Internet, maybe? The point is that someone has to appear in front of a camera and offer the anti-SHRA agruement, otherwise Iron Man & Co. just have a monopoly on opinion. Of course, like I've said, Cap historically has underestimated his power in the stage of vocal PR at times; heck, if he'd run for President of Marvel's America years ago, you'd have to find a tough way for him NOT to win. He probably doesn't want to dictate orders on the government, merely serve in whatever America's best interests are. In CIVIL WAR, he feels it is un-American to make fugitives out of noble heroes who don't sign onto the payroll.


which is a major issue for me is why wasnt Captain America called to speak infront of the Senate???? How long did the Steroids in baseball hearings go for and they pretty much called everyone????? The US government is gonna outlaw superheroes and they dont call in their greatest hero. It's like if DC did the same and the only hero they called to testify was the Question.
 

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