Breaking Bad

[Whiskey Tango]

It's hard to wade through the literally hundreds of dumb articles about the obituary, but I think this is it.

Thank you

 

[Sawyer]

Eh. It's 50/50. His intention was always to leave money for his family, he wasn't just going to leave them in the lurch after he checked out. He wasn't doing what he was doing pro bono, so in that way he was doing it for his family. But he was doing it the way he wanted to. He wasn't sticking with a job that paid him too little or taking charity from the Schwartzes. He was doing it his own way, and convinced himself that that could all work out for the best.

 

[Shikamaru]

A 20+ year marriage is not a court of law. Skylar knew her husband was lying to her, even if she couldn't prove it yet, and she was absolutely right.

If someone accused you of doing something wrong to your face and you asked for some reasons and all they essentially said was "I feel it in my bones", you wouldn't be irritated?

Plus, her suspecting Walt of something is not a valid excuse to track Jesse down to tell him he can't sell pot to a grown man that bought it all with his own consent. Or to get mad at Walt whenever he wants some time alone. Or to try to hurt Holly by smoking just to get back at Walt.

Not being able to prove it yet means jack**** when in the end Walt ruined his entire family's life with his lies, his deceit, and his greed. Hell, maybe if Skylar had been more vigilant earlier, she could've stopped it all sooner and minimized the damage. Being a *****y nag early on pales in comparison to what Walt became.

Except that by the time Walt ruined his family's life and became something really ugly, Skyler was already in on it. Plus, Walt being worse than a nagging ***** doesn't change the fact that Skyler was a nagging *****.

 

[Trainwreck2100]

People root for Walt because Bryan Cranston and the writers have created a very interesting character.

Everyone who walt killed deserved to die, except for Mike but everyone knew he had to die. I don't even care that he poisoned the kid, casualty of war. Now iff the writers had the stones to kill the kid off with the poisoning this could be a different story

 

[Travesty]

Plus, her suspecting Walt of something is not a valid excuse to track Jesse down to tell him he can't sell pot to a grown man that bought it all with his own consent. Or to get mad at Walt whenever he wants some time alone. Or to try to hurt Holly by smoking just to get back at Walt.

There used to be a funny meme floating around that had a picture of Skyler smoking, and it said something like, "gets mad at husband for smoking weed when he has cancer....smokes while I'm pregnant".

I always thought that was funny.

 

[Shikamaru]

There used to be a funny meme floating around that had a picture of Skyler smoking, and it said something like, "gets mad at husband for smoking weed when he has cancer....smokes while I'm pregnant".

I always thought that was funny.

Not even that. She didn't know Walt had cancer when Walt told her Jesse sells him pot. She only found out days after she confronted Jesse about it and told him to sell pot to him anymore.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Eh. It's 50/50. His intention was always to leave money for his family, he wasn't just going to leave them in the lurch after he checked out. He wasn't doing what he was doing pro bono, so in that way he was doing it for his family. But he was doing it the way he wanted to. He wasn't sticking with a job that paid him too little or taking charity from the Schwartzes. He was doing it his own way, and convinced himself that that could all work out for the best.

What was that pillow talk about where he said something like wanting to live the rest of his life his own way or something? I always assumed that in his mind, he may also mean doing things his own way, like you said.

 

[BestGirl]

No, I didn't miss the finale. I agree that from around the "I'm in the empire business" time, he was in it for himself until Skyler(and his cancer returning) convinced him that it was time to stop. He had a "Remember why you're doing this in the first place?" moment.

I don't believe, despite what Walt said in the finale, that everything he's done since day one was for himself and himself only simply because that's not what we were shown. I think he felt repentant toward Skyler and wanted to apologize and validate her feelings that he's made some selfish decisions, but he obviously didn't want or need to split hairs during what he knew was going to be his last visit with his wife and go, "Everything I did...for the past year, was because I enjoyed what I was doing".

Vince Gilligan has said in a couple interviews that his intention in writing that scene was that Walt was finally being completely honest about what he was doing and why he was doing it. You can feel differently, of course, because that's the nature of interpreting art.

Right...but that's not what married adults do. Her first instincts weren't to go, "Walt...what's going on with you? You need to tell me right now...", it was to "play Walt" and copy his behavior, adding to the dysfunction. That's like if Walt ran over a dog and she went out and ran over one to show him how that feels. That's crazy.

Her passive-aggressiveness bugged me too, especially when she gave him the cold shoulder after the fugue state incident, but it wouldn't've mattered what she did. He was never going to come clean with her because he knew she wasn't going to approve of meth cooking.

You can't lash out at someone for having, you suspect, a dark secret that you desperately want to find out and then punish them when they try to tell you. That's crazy.

You can if you suspect that the deep dark secret your husband is keeping from you is an affair, then it finally clicks with you that it's something much, much worse than that.

 

[BestGirl]

Walt started cooking before Elliot & Gretchen even offered him the money. Plus, they offered him money for his cancer treatment, not for his family. Though he did pay his treatment with some of that money, the main reason he started cooking was to make sure his family had enough money after he was gone.

And he could've quit after Krazy 8 and Tuco died and taken G&E up on their offer, but didn't. He had at least a couple of chances to break out of the industry and do things the right way but chose not to do so.

Furthermore, what right did he have to sell drugs to leave extra cash for his family? This isn't the Middle Ages, Skyler could've gotten a job.

Also, who exactly did Walt and Jesse drag in their business? Skyler joined by her consent and Walter even hesitated at first for a bit. Jesse never dragged anyone into the drug business (not counting the friends he had already in the business or related to it). In fact, he did the opposite. He was reluctant to tell Jane about what he does. He broke up with Andrea to keep her out and he himself wanted to be out of the business for the entirety of season 5 (which takes place in the span of a year).

They dragged Andrea, Brock, Jr., Holly, and Skyler into the business with them. Remember how Gus threatened to kill Walt's entire family? None of them signed up for that. And Andrea was killed because Jesse became involved with her. Knowing the dangerous people he associated with, he should've left an innocent woman well enough alone.

Being a bit suspicious of the way he sounded on the phone constitutes her tracing the phone call all the way back to Jesse, finding personal information about him and then confronting him over the weed? It's not like Walt consistently sounded a bit weird on the phone. As far as we know, it was the first time it happened. There is no evidence Walt lied to her before. If anything, everything we've seen suggests that Walt's constant-lying gig only started post-meth cooking. She made it clear she would divorce him because he's a liar.

Her "female intuition" is not an excuse for her being a *****. It takes some level of critical thinking to go out of your way and do what she did based on the little-to-no evidence she had to suspect Walt.

I already said she shouldn't've confronted Jesse over Walt. She should've told Walt she was bothered by his pot smoking so that they could have a frank discussion about it.

She gave Walt crap for it long before Holly was born. She gave him crap for it since the very start of the show.

If Walt had just told her he needed time alone? He did tell her he needed time alone. Back in Season 1 when he first started his chemotherapy.



She was. She did that and leaving the house for entire days just to get back at Walt's BS "fugue state". The "fugue state" she just knew was and accused Walt of lying about based on no proof whatsoever.

That's why Skyler was so disliked early on. As many other people have said, she lashed out at Walt before she had anything solid to go on.



Doesn't matter. She had no evidence to anything Walt was doing and lashed out at him regardless. With no solid points, her argument is rendered invalid for the same reasons why we don't just throw people in prison without evidence that they committed a crime.

It's hard for me to blame her for giving Walt crap for doing something shady when he was in fact doing something shady. She's been married to him for years. I'm sure she could tell something was off and that he was lying to her.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

That seems a little harsh. Not like he could just overlook Walt being a drug kingpin, and he gave him ample opportunity to come quietly.

Oh, i totally understood why he couldn't just let the whole thing slide.

It's his 'gotta destroy Walt no matter what now'attitude/obsession that ultimately annoys me.

I really don't think I'll ever understand how some people can seemingly hate everyone on the show EXCEPT Walt. I really, really just don't get it. I feel like pointing each and everyone one of them to that article about bad Breaking Bad fans.

__________________

Easy. Its because how the characters are written ultimately.It's also one of the thing i've kinda disliked about the show, how the writers laying everything very thick when it comes to characterisations....eveything seems to be cranked up to eleven when it comes to them.

Skyler was written to be bossy,pushy, dominant and overbearing right from the very first episode, the very first scene with her family, and it's got proggresively worse as the show goes on.We all understood that all she wants is to keep the family safe, but the way her character is written,ultimately she just gets on your nerves, regardless the fact that you totally understood her motives..

Same with Hank, it's not enough to just show that he's determined to bring Walt to justice, he's gotta be obsessive about it, regardless the consequences and ultimately, just ;ike Skyler, the character started to annoy you too.

And jesse...on one hand, the witer did a great job of developing his character.He's grown from a junkie to one with a conscience and a desire to be a better person. But, liked with all the other supporting characters, they exaggerated other aspects of his character,and in his case his nervous breakdown and the stupid things he did because of it.It's one dumb thing after another...not to mention the constant teary eyes and crying.It makes me wanna say..yeah okay..i got that this guy is suffering...ONE SEASON AGO...enough already!

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

You're saying "enough already" but you don't speak for the rest of us who thought they were powerful character moments. I think most of your criticisms are way off-base.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Fair enough. To each his own

 

[Brain Damage]

Someone said that Skyler smoked a lot of cigarettes while pregnant to get back at Walt. Bull. She smoked 2 and a half and then flushed the rest down the toilet. Not approving, mind you, but those who are saying she practically put Holly at a high risk of birth defects are taking it way too far.

 

[giveyourself12%]

Vince Gilligan has said in a couple interviews that his intention in writing that scene was that Walt was finally being completely honest about what he was doing and why he was doing it. You can feel differently, of course, because that's the nature of interpreting art.

I think that's where we're at here.

Her passive-aggressiveness bugged me too, especially when she gave him the cold shoulder after the fugue state incident, but it wouldn't've mattered what she did. He was never going to come clean with her because he knew she wasn't going to approve of meth cooking.

I'm so glad you wrote that. I've heard and read so many, "What else would you have done?" comments. I'm like, "Not that!"

You can if you suspect that the deep dark secret your husband is keeping from you is an affair, then it finally clicks with you that it's something much, much worse than that.

I still don't get how her reaction makes sense.

In my head it's like,

Walt: "Don't leave me...the threat of losing my family is the one thing that hurts me...I'll tell you everything if you'll stay.

Skyler: "No."

Walt: "I make methampheta-wait...what ? Isn't that exactly what you wanted?

Skyler: "I'm too afraid...I don't want to know."

Walt: "Oh. Soooo.........we good?"

Skyler: *leaves*

Walt: *vaguely confused stare*


Maybe I just haven't gotten to the point in my life where something scares me so badly that I don't want to know about it, but I still can't see how her reaction makes a lot of sense.


Aaaaand, because I'm me, in my head the conversation continues thusly:

*Skyler's cell rings*

Skyler: "Hello?"

Walt: "Pizza."

Skyler: "What?"

Walt: "I'll get pizza...and we'll sit down...and I'll tell you the tru-

Skyler: "NO WALT!!!!"

Walt: "Pizza and the truth Skyler, what more do you want?!

Skyler: *hangs up*

*Skyler's cell - ring ring ring*

Skyler: "Walt...

Walt: "DIPPING STICKS!!!!"

Skyler: *click*

Jesse: "B****** be cray, yo." *chomps dipping stick*

Walt: *nods self-reflectively*

 

[AnneFan]

Eh. It's 50/50. His intention was always to leave money for his family, he wasn't just going to leave them in the lurch after he checked out. He wasn't doing what he was doing pro bono, so in that way he was doing it for his family. But he was doing it the way he wanted to. He wasn't sticking with a job that paid him too little or taking charity from the Schwartzes. He was doing it his own way, and convinced himself that that could all work out for the best.

Gus ended up being right in Season 3:

"A man provides for his family...and he does it even when he's not appreciated. Or respected. Or even loved. He just bears up and he does it. Because he is a man."

 

[Kane52630]

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

Started watching this show last week, I'm now on 210 ("Over"). Loving it so far.

 

[Kane52630]

Started watching this show last week, I'm now on 210 ("Over"). Loving it so far.

You'll love the ending in that episode.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm at the point where I just find it hard to give Walt any sort of sympathy or rationalization for his actions, especially after him coming clean.

In fact, there's no real reason for him to have been such an underachiever in the first place. The guy was clearly a brilliant chemist, so he sells the shares of his startup company and becomes...a high school chemistry teacher? Not a college professor? Not a pharmaceutical chemist or something like that? It just seems like self-sabotage that he didn't do better for himself even after departing with Grey Matter. These jobs wouldn't have made him a millionaire, no, but jeez at least he wouldnt've have had to moonlight at the car wash and could've at least afforded some decent life insurance so he would've have had to worry about what he'd leave his family behind (btw, my mom is a single mom living off a teacher's salary and even SHE has decent life insurance, so I don't exactly buy that either). I think he just hated the idea of settling for "second place", so he lived his life on autopilot instead.

The guy turned to crime for two reasons: fear and pride. Fear that he'd leave his family with a bunch of medical bills and no inheritance (which again, he had himself to blame for), and the pride that this was his chance to be "the man" and scratch that itch for his enormous latent ego. And once he got over the fear part, he got off on the thrill of it all and actually enjoyed being a criminal, slowly giving up whatever he had left of his soul along the way.

F*** Walt.

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

"Stay out of my territory!"

Awesome!

 

[georgec]

I'm at the point where I just find it hard to give Walt any sort of sympathy or rationalization for his actions, especially after him coming clean.

In fact, there's no real reason for him to have been such an underachiever in the first place. The guy was clearly a brilliant chemist, so he sells the shares of his startup company and becomes...a high school chemistry teacher? Not a college professor? Not a pharmaceutical chemist or something like that? It just seems like self-sabotage that he didn't do better for himself even after departing with Grey Matter. These jobs wouldn't have made him a millionaire, no, but jeez at least he wouldnt've have had to moonlight at the car wash and could've at least afforded some decent life insurance so he would've have had to worry about what he'd leave his family behind (btw, my mom is a single mom living off a teacher's salary and even SHE has decent life insurance, so I don't exactly buy that either). I think he just hated the idea of settling for "second place", so he lived his life on autopilot instead.

The guy turned to crime for two reasons: fear and pride. Fear that he'd leave his family with a bunch of medical bills and no inheritance (which again, he had himself to blame for), and the pride that this was his chance to be "the man" and scratch that itch for his enormous latent ego. And once he got over the fear part, he got off on the thrill of it all and actually enjoyed being a criminal, slowly giving up whatever he had left of his soul along the way.

F*** Walt.

Great post.

 

[Drizzle]

Gus Fring was on Sesame Street in the '80s. I guess that explains what happened to Mr. Hooper.

[YT]OsTJsux4aVc[/YT]

 

[Shikamaru]

Walt being only a chemistry teacher is still one of the unanswered questions on the show. We all know how Walter White became Heisenberg but how did such a brilliant chemist become Walter White? What exactly happened between him and Elliot/Gretchen and how come it was so bad that he couldn't get a better job than a chemistry teacher for most of his life? Or maybe he just had a bit of bad luck? We do know Walt apparently worked at some big lab before that they kept bringing up in the early episodes (and that's apparently where he got his cancer from according to Skyler) so did something happen that resulted in him losing an opportunity to let his intellect shine for the second time? All questions that are still a complete mystery by the end of the show.

I don't think Walt did what he did out of fear and pride. I do think there is some truth to that, but I always saw it this way: He had a short-term goal and a long-term goal for getting into meth cooking. The short-term goal was to provide for his family so that they have enough money after he is goal. The long-term goal is something he wanted his whole life - to be able to use his brilliant intellect to create something that leaves an impact on the world, to get recognition and a successful career out of that, and to get his name remembered. I don't think Walt loved being a criminal or killing people (that's not to say he didn't have a problem with those things as his meth career progressed). What I do think he loved was creating a top-quality product that didn't exist and get the right amount of recognition/money off of it.

In the end, Walt managed to complete both his short-term and long-term goal. He managed to leave some money for his family (though only a fraction of what he made) but also managed to get recognition off his product. He died in the Nazis' meth lab with the rest of the $80 million probably not being that far away from the place either. As far as the world knows, Walt was cooking the entire time. Walt will forever be remembered as the "genius" behind the blue pure meth no one was ever able to replicate (not counting Jesse). Essentially, Walt got what he always wanted. However, he got both his short-term and long-term goal achieved at the cost of his life and of his family's psychology (Skyler and Jr. are probably permanently scarred to an extent). He also lost all sympathism and became the bad guy of his own story in this process.


And this is where my rant gets political. I think Breaking Bad is the best representation there is of the failure of the War on Drugs. Breaking Bad is essentially all about how the drug trade operates. The question we have to ask ourselves is the following: Would most of the violence in the show, if any at all, would have still happened had it not been for the War on Drugs?

It is a proven historical fact that the illegalization of drugs only leads to an increase in black markets. We've been seeing it since the 1920's with prohibition. When you have a market not controlled by the government, the only people that are left to control it are those in the black market.

In an alternate universe where meth was controlled and regulated by the government, what would this story have been like? Walter might have been able to present his product to some meth company. He would have still achieved by his long-term goal by putting his chemistry skills into creating something that didn't exist on a specific market while still getting the recognition he felt he deserved from it. At the same time, he would have also been able to leave some money behind for his family after his death, or have it arranged that a certain % of the profit he made off his product would go to his family every year. So many lives that were screwed up in the show might not have been screwed up if that was the case.

I'm not saying all of this would have happened for sure had it not been the case. There are other factors to consider. Just an idea I'm throwing out there to think about.

 

[BatLobster]

You know Shika you raise some interesting points. The way I see it though, it'd be one thing if Walt expressed a similar political point of view in the show. But it was kind of the opposite. Maybe he was a proponent of drug legalization and regulation, but he had a clear disgust for junkies and the idea of actually using meth when he first started, being really harsh on Jesse in particular for wanting to use it after their first cook. I find it pretty perverse that he would simultaneously take pride in his own ability to make such a pure product while at the same time holding his would-be buyers in contempt. That's another reason I disliked Walt from the start. He had an arrogance about him and all these illusions of moral superiority. He thought he could partake in crime without actually becoming a criminal. But in reality he turned to the drug trade for the same reason anyone else does: "easy money".

 

[Shikamaru]

Technically, Walt kinda does express a similar political point at one point in the show. There is this scene in season 1 and 2 where Walt is outside having a cigarette with Hank during Holly's baby shower. Walt says "Funny how we just draw the line on what is legal and illegal, like alcohol used to be illegal and you were a criminal for having it" or something among those words. Then Hank says "Meth used to be legal too". I think Vince Gilligan had had that issue in mind as well to an extent, even if he just briefly addressed it.