Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 3

[Lily Adler]

I will always be a Bangel shipper. The Spuffy pairing was just... toxic. Never liked Riley the Soldier Boy.

Wood and Buffy would have been a better pairing for me.

 

[mclay18]

Wood and Buffy would have been a better pairing for me.

I don't remember them having much chemistry.

Spoiler

Now Wood and Faith definitely had it.

 

[Sithborg]

I kind of get chosing a new show over a spin off. If Tru Calling was a big hit, it would have been a bigger deal for Dushku's career to have something more solely hers than something that branched off of Buffy. I don't think spin-offs are viewed with much prestige generally, and a spin-off isn't likely going to hit any bigger than the shows it spawned from.

That Faith show was going to have Spike in it too if I recall, before he ended up moving to Angel. Could have been fun. I am personally more sad that 'Ripper' never came to pass. Giles dealing with spooks in England sounded cool to me.

And sadly, the show she teamed up with Whedon for was Dollhouse, which in retrospect, with all we know about him now, ooooffff.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

And sadly, the show she teamed up with Whedon for was Dollhouse, which in retrospect, with all we know about him now, ooooffff.

Yeah, in hindsight that concept and Whedon’s predilections…. Ugh.

NGL, I did love the theme song.

 

[flickchick85]

I don't remember them having much chemistry.

Spoiler

Now Wood and Faith definitely had it.

The former had better chemistry to me, and they wasted it.

 

[ComicChick]

Why is Connor so annoying? Is it just me?

also I wonder how much carpenter hated shooting season 4? This is when she was pregnant in real life and joss was pissed right?

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Why is Connor so annoying? Is it just me?

also I wonder how much carpenter hated shooting season 4? This is when she was pregnant in real life and joss was pissed right?

If you had to pick, who do you find more annoying: Connor or S6 Dawn?

And yeah poor Charisma was getting written into a corner and treated like crap during season 4. She and Cordy deserved so much better.

 

[flickchick85]

Why is Connor so annoying? Is it just me?

Vincent Kartheiser. I've realized on rewatches that on paper, I wouldn't mind Connor if he'd been played by a different actor. The stuff with Cordelia would've always been awful, but outside of that, the writing for Connor wasn't the problem, imo. I loved Vincent on Mad Men, but I just feel like he was soooo miscast as Connor.

also I wonder how much carpenter hated shooting season 4? This is when she was pregnant in real life and joss was pissed right?

Yep. I think it's safe to say she wasn't too happy with the way this season went.

 

[Lily Adler]

Vincent Kartheiser. I've realized on rewatches that on paper, I wouldn't mind Connor if he'd been played by a different actor. The stuff with Cordelia would've always been awful, but outside of that, the writing for Connor wasn't the problem, imo. I loved Vincent on Mad Men, but I just feel like he was soooo miscast as Connor.


Yep. I think it's safe to say she wasn't too happy with the way this season went.

How did Angel and Darla produce that?

 

[flickchick85]

How did Angel and Darla produce that?

 

[mclay18]

Why is Connor so annoying? Is it just me?

also I wonder how much carpenter hated shooting season 4? This is when she was pregnant in real life and joss was pissed right?

This was when Joss made jabs about her figure, made fun of her rosary tattoo and other toxic behavior. Like Charisma went and gave him the heads up when she found out she was pregnant so he could accommodate her and write around it. And he just gave her the devil about it and crafted that yucky Connor/Cordy relationship.

 

[mclay18]

If you had to pick, who do you find more annoying: Connor or S6 Dawn?

I didn’t like Connor on principal (no matter which actor played him), while S6 Dawn acted like a normal temperamental 16 year old girl.

 

[ComicChick]

If you had to pick, who do you find more annoying: Connor or S6 Dawn?

And yeah poor Charisma was getting written into a corner and treated like crap during season 4. She and Cordy deserved so much better.

of all the crap in season 6, i don't really remember Dawn being any extra annoying. like someone else said, basic teenager. and she was seriously neglected. she lost her mom unexpectedly. her sister died saving her, and was brought back to life with issues of her own but never around. dawn was kinda raising herself it felt like at times

maybe part of my annoyance with Connor is the casting or how Vincent portrays him. his smug face irritates me sometimes. and i've only ever seen him in the movie In Time, but he wasn't too bad in that, for what that movie was lol. the connor/cordy thing was ick either way, but some of the dialogue/facial expressions just annoyed me. sometimes i try to remind myself that he's a very naive 18ish year old kid on this show and sometimes he acts like an irrational angsty, impulsive teen which isn't that different than dawn in some ways i guess? really enjoyed faith being back, and really enjoyed seeing her kick his butt around for a bit. the scene of her in the shower bloodied and beaten after losing against the beast was well done imo.

however; i will say of the more recent episodes, i don't think Fred and Gunn have ever looked better than they are right now. kudos to makeup/hair/styling or whatever. i just finished the episodes where Gunn helps Gwen steal that device that negates her abilities, and the one introducing Jasmine. I've consistently liked Gunn throughout the show both times i've watched it. he just feels so natural in the role, he played it so well. sometimes no, but there was something about him the last few episodes where it felt like he was in his stride.

 

[ComicChick]

also, i'm not sure i understood Skip correctly (SKIP ?! ) but did he say that this whole jasmine thing had been in motion for a long time now? like 2 seasons long. i know he mentioned specific events but did i miss hints of this bigger event coming into play or was it all kinda just pulled together for a plot device?

that part confused me. i might have to watch again.

 

[flickchick85]

also, i'm not sure i understood Skip correctly (SKIP ?! ) but did he say that this whole jasmine thing had been in motion for a long time now? like 2 seasons long. i know he mentioned specific events but did i miss hints of this bigger event coming into play or was it all kinda just pulled together for a plot device?

that part confused me. i might have to watch again.

Yes, he absolutely said that from Cordy inheriting Doyle’s visions onward, it was all part of Jasmine’s plan. Was it the writers’ plan all along? I thinkin’ no lol.

 

[ComicChick]

Yes, he absolutely said that from Cordy inheriting Doyle’s visions onward, it was all part of Jasmine’s plan. Was it the writers’ plan all along? I thinkin’ no lol.

don't really love it because it lessens what Doyle did to me a little. and it makes the Powers that Be sound like they don't pay attention much as they should be. but then they send in Darla to try and sway Connor (which i did like that interaction) to fix their mess too late?

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

God season 4 was so contrived. I mean I could be mistaken but wasn't that episode 'The Trial' in Season 2, the way Connor got into the world? Darla was already living her second chance once Angel went through the trial, so as a loophole, she was able to get pregnant.

Ugh lol.

 

[flickchick85]

don't really love it because it lessens what Doyle did to me a little. and it makes the Powers that Be sound like they don't pay attention much as they should be. but then they send in Darla to try and sway Connor (which i did like that interaction) to fix their mess too late?

Trying to make sense of all the choices made from that point onward will only make your brain hurt, trust me.

 

[flickchick85]

God season 4 was so contrived. I mean I could be mistaken but wasn't that episode 'The Trial' in Season 2, the way Connor got into the world? Darla was already living her second chance once Angel went through the trial, so as a loophole, she was able to get pregnant.

Ugh lol.

Yes. They specifically said that whole thing was Jasmine’s doing too lol.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Yes. They specifically said that whole thing was Jasmine’s doing too lol.

Oh goodness. But speaking of...

Jasmine and Glorificus get into a huge, godly catfight, who you got money on Flick?

 

[flickchick85]

Oh goodness. But speaking of...

Jasmine and Glorificus get into a huge, godly catfight, who you got money on Flick?

Glory all the way. She wasn’t the brightest god in the heavens, but she was perfectly willing to get her hands dirty. Jasmine cared too much about that whole “divinity” facade.

 

[henzINNIT]

Season 4 definitely tries to tie too many threads together for the sake of a 'master plan'. That said, I don't really mind the explanation of "The Trial" and how that led to Connor's conception. It was a literal contrivance from a higher power, in order to set up her own birth later. A stretch for sure but just about logical to me, and feels about right for a being that oversees and manipulates things over such an elongated time.

I think my least favourite retcon was making Skip into an active villain over the mellow, average joe of a demon he was previously.


Regarding Cordelia, she basically sucks in season 4 and it hurts. Though I'd argue her character drops off massively half way through season 3. No-one seemed to know what to do with her after the toll of her visions came to an end. I wonder how different things would have been if the show didn't lose David Greenwalt at about that time. He was the big Cordy fan, and the reason she moved over to Angel in the first place.

 

[flickchick85]

I know it sounds like I hate S4 but I honestly like a lot about it, in spite of the Connor, Cordelia and plot contrivances of it all. I loved how heavily serialized it was, a few of my favorite eps of the show were in that season, and once Jasmine finally shows up, that arc was just awesomely intense to me, with how hopeless it all felt. Fred getting a proper chance to shine was great too.

 

[henzINNIT]

I know it sounds like I hate S4 but I honestly like a lot about it, in spite of the Connor, Cordelia and plot contrivances of it all. I loved how heavily serialized it was, a few of my favorite eps of the show were in that season, and once Jasmine finally shows up, that arc was just awesomely intense to me, with how hopeless it all felt. Fred getting a proper chance to shine was great too.

Season 4 is a ride. They really went all out trying to make an epic storyline with big twists and fights and everything. The Beast, Angelus, Faith, turning W+H into zombies, blocking out the sun, visiting alien worlds and finally the whole body-snatchers/brain washing stuff. A lot of fun to be had. It might be the most ambitious season of either show in my opinion.

(...which ironically, probably made Charisma Carpenter's experiences even worse as a result)

 

[mclay18]

Glory all the way. She wasn’t the brightest god in the heavens, but she was perfectly willing to get her hands dirty. Jasmine cared too much about that whole “divinity” facade.

Glory was one hell of a Big Bad. She wasn't as deliciously despicable as S3's Mayor Wilkins, but she'd brain drain Jasmine in like ten minutes.

Now if Jasmine had The Beast and Angelus as backup, it'd be Jasmine all the way.