BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 8

[Chesterfield]

Sorry but I'm no DC fanboy or anything but I enjoyed this film. I don't know if it was a case of lowering my expectations but this film doesn't deserve anywhere near the level of flat out hate it's getting. Critics and many fans have been overly OOOOOOVERLY critical towards this film. Sure, it's far from perfect and it has many issues but it in no way deserves imo the surgical-like harsh reception it's been getting. I feel really bad for the actors tbh, especially Cavill and Affleck. They definitely deserve to be in better films and they did very well with what they had to work with.

As for Snyder, if he wasn't so belligerent I'd have a bit more empathy for him but he's too stubborn to accept and do something about his shortcomings. That being said, this film maybe a disappointment but I don't regard it as the epic disaster it's being labeled as by so many.

 

[AnneFan]

RT is dead to me. I mean, seriously....?

If I listened to the critics I'd never have stepped foot into the cinema to see BvS, because boy, it just wasn't worth my time or money. It apparently had no scraps of redemption at all, and Joel Schumacher was a genius in comparison.

Go see the movie yourself and make up your own mind.

 

[Sleiek]

Sorry but I'm no DC fanboy or anything but I enjoyed this film. I don't know if it was a case of lowering my expectations but this film doesn't deserve anywhere near the level of flat out hate it's getting. Critics and many fans have been overly OOOOOOVERLY critical towards this film. Sure, it's far from perfect and it has many issues but it in no way deserves imo the surgical-like harsh reception it's been getting. I feel really bad for the actors tbh, especially Cavill and Affleck. They definitely deserve to be in better films and they did very well with what they had to work with.

As for Snyder, if he wasn't so belligerent I'd have a bit more empathy for him but he's too stubborn to accept and do something about his shortcomings. That being said, this film maybe a disappointment but I don't regard it as the epic disaster it's being labeled as by so many.

I think he listens.

It seems no one here is appreciating that he really listened to the criticism in Man of Steel about all the destruction and Superman not doing enough. That he couldn't direct the fight to somewhere else.

Zack made it clear in this film so that people won't complain about the same.
Some people seem to ignore the positives in the film.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

The more I think about the film, the less I like it personally I skewed positive at first but I'm skewing a bit more negative atm , have to see it again.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The more I think about the film, the less I like it personally I skewed positive at first but I'm skewing a bit more negative atm , have to see it again.

That's how I felt I feel ya

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The more I think about the film, the less I like it personally I skewed positive at first but I'm skewing a bit more negative atm , have to see it again.

Your rational mind is being bought off by Disney.

 

[Aejej]

Good point but Mark Ruffalo doing motion capture helped IMO. Nobody did it for Doomsday and I honestly can't imagine that character not looking video-gamey in live action.

Although I really hope JL isn't video-gamey. BvS thankfully for the most part wasn't.

If Doomsday was rendered sans motion-capture, that's slick. They really looked like they were fighting that thing. You can't say Zack doesn't get good performances out of his actors.

 

[Mjölnir]

If Doomsday was rendered sans motion-capture, that's slick. They really looked like they were fighting that thing. You can't say Zack doesn't get good performances out of his actors.

Just because they didn't motion capture Doomsday doesn't mean that they didn't use the normal visual cues for the actors when they shot their stuff. When you have big monsters you don't just get the mo cap guy and the actor to fight, and then just paint over one guy as he's too small to be the right target for the other actor. Big parts of the direct action in that scene had the heroes as CGI as well. This is not complaining about anyone's job in the scene though, just mentioning how it usually goes.

 

[Steamteck]

RT is dead to me. I mean, seriously....?

If I listened to the critics I'd never have stepped foot into the cinema to see BvS, because boy, it just wasn't worth my time or money. It apparently had no scraps of redemption at all, and Joel Schumacher was a genius in comparison.

Go see the movie yourself and make up your own mind.

I came to that conclusion several years ago when there were multiple films I would have missed I really liked if I'd listened. Hail the rise of the free thinking moviegoer.t:

 

[Steamteck]

Here's what I think. If you loved the movie? Awesome enjoy the heck out of it.

Do realize that the primary reason most of us feel that way is because after so many years we finally saw these three characters suit up and share the screen. So that moment was going to be a bit emotional regardless if you've grown up with these characters.

But do realize that while some of us are criticizing the film, we're not doing so out of spite. But rather we felt there was so much intelligent material and potential here that wasn't fleshed out because of how much was packed in. This could've been split into 3 great movies.

We just want DC films of high calibre that can do these characters justice (excuse the pun). I love the characters and I love the characters portraying them. I just want material so they can all shine. For me, when the Avengers assembled I was pumped. But when the JL members stand together, I might genuinely cry because they mean so much more to me.

I do understand your pain because that's how I felt about the Nolan movies. I felt Batman begins was actually pretty good but they each got worse until its pretty incomprehensible TDKR is held up as such a relatively good film.

Like you I really like Marvel but LOVE the DC characters. People I trust really like this film and MOS is tied with Avengers for my favorite CBM so I really am hopeful. I'll see it first of the week. I tired to see over the weekend but our theaters all use assigned seats and they were all bought up Thursday morning. I really hope this is my time for Dc films.

 

[Tony Stark]

I know it's so easy to label people here "Marvel fans" or "DC fans", but I think that's short sighted. Yeah I freely admit I'm more of a Marvel fan because those are the comics I grew up with. I also grew up with the Superfriends, the Christopher Reeves Superman movies, the Adam West Batman show and Batman '89 came out right after I graduated high school. I have investments in both genres, but admittedly I didn't read a lot of DC comics, I was mostly reading Marvel.

Everyone goes into every film no matter the genre with biases. It's human nature.

I admit, there are some here that just want this movie to fail, and there's nothing you can do about that. I think the vast majority of people being critical of the movie, be they Marvel fans or DC fans simply wanted a better movie.

I loved Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. I wasn't as crazy about TDKR, but if this film would have had half of the enjoyment value of TDKR, I'd be raising the roof. My first reaction to this movie as a person who liked some of the things with MoS, but thought overall it was very problematic, was that it was a much better film than this one. Because there still was an enjoyment factor to it.

In all fairness, if the first half of this film were paced like the 2nd half, I think this film would have gotten a lot more positive reviews, even though there were some problematic parts to the 2nd half as well.

Snyder's biggest problem is that he things he needs to show everything on screen, when it is much more effective to only leave in the important shots, and use exposition and dialogue to convey the rest. Do we really need to see Bruce's parent's get shot again? Because this is a well established character you can use that to your advantage in telling this story. Instead of cutting to an irrelevant scene showing [blackout] kids swimming by the destroyed world engine getting the kryptonite[/blackout] they could have cut that scene out and just have Lex explain where he got it.

You might have enjoyed the movie, but if you don't understand that the movie had pacing and editing issues, then you don't understand how movies are made. There's a reason they have "establishing shots" in films because it give context to the viewer. When you cut right into the Knightmare sequence without an establishing shot that "this is a dream" then you lose your audience.

Sorry but screaming, "this movie was awesome, the critics only like formulaic marvel movies" is a platitude not an argument as to why this film was good.

 

[Aejej]

Just because they didn't motion capture Doomsday doesn't mean that they didn't use the normal visual cues for the actors when they shot their stuff. When you have big monsters you don't just get the mo cap guy and the actor to fight, and then just paint over one guy as he's too small to be the right target for the other actor. Big parts of the direct action in that scene had the heroes as CGI as well. This is not complaining about anyone's job in the scene though, just mentioning how it usually goes.

No prob. I know how they do this sort of stuff, I thought they did mo-cap for Doomsday because I didn't see any major lag. Maybe I will next time.

 

[Aejej]

Snyder's biggest problem is that he things he needs to show everything on screen, when it is much more effective to only leave in the important shots, and use exposition and dialogue to convey the rest.

People complain he doesn't show enough.

Do we really need to see Bruce's parent's get shot again? Because this is a well established character you can use that to your advantage in telling this story.

In long form, no, we don't need to see it again. But we got to see it play out through the opening credits, which I think was the wise thing to do.

Instead of cutting to an irrelevant scene showing [blackout] kids swimming by the destroyed world engine getting the kryptonite[/blackout] they could have cut that scene out and just have Lex explain where he got it.

Since it remained undiscovered until this film, and plays a very particular role, that scene's necessary, IMO.

 

[The Joker]

Sorry but screaming, "this movie was awesome, the critics only like formulaic marvel movies" is a platitude not an argument as to why this film was good.

Not to mention totally false when you look at the critical success of the TDK trilogy.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

TDK is also formulaic. It's formulaic in being a good, satisfactory movie. BvS takes risks, like how crap can a movie before you can't get away with it.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Not to mention totally false when you look at the critical success of the TDK trilogy.

Or every great horror film, um the Green Mile, the Singer X-Men films, Indiana Jones films, Star Wars OG, Rocky films,

The point is the list can ****ing go on.

People see movies to escape real life and be happy. To get inspired.

Every scene in this film is someone brooding.

We have Superman/Zod fight victim (who's basically the equivalent to a modern 9-11 victim) hate Superman and blame him. Goes to deface his statue making him a criminal. And then Lex makes him a suicide bomber basically.

This film is ****ing depressing in tone. I can see why Snyder didn't want the Flash show canon. Because the Flash show can at least be fun.

 

[jmc]

TDK is also formulaic. It's formulaic in being a good, satisfactory movie. BvS takes risks, like how crap can a movie before you can't get away with it.

I really don't buy this thing that BvS took risks. It just had no idea what story it was trying to tell.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

I do understand your pain because that's how I felt about the Nolan movies. I felt Batman begins was actually pretty good but they each got worse until its pretty incomprehensible TDKR is held up as such a relatively good film.

Like you I really like Marvel but LOVE the DC characters. People I trust really like this film and MOS is tied with Avengers for my favorite CBM so I really am hopeful. I'll see it first of the week. I tired to see over the weekend but our theaters all use assigned seats and they were all bought up Thursday morning. I really hope this is my time for Dc films.

If you're a comic book reader IMO you'll find a lot to enjoy. I don't read many comics but even I could point to frames and say "oh! That's right out of Frank Miller" or "Oh that's Alex Ross". This is a film for DC fans who are overtly familiar with the characters. So much so that you might need to project your pre existing knowledge of characters to give them motivation.

I hope you enjoy it

 

[Mr. Wayne]

Honestly the way I feel about RT is that most of the critics have raised valid points but the way in which things are certified is somewhat misleading. There is no way in my view that this movie is anywhere near as bad as the bulk of the films it shares as similar rating with. Ultimately you've got to decide for yourself though. I liked the movie although I had gripes and see places where improvement should and must be made in future projects.

 

[Kobra]

I know it's so easy to label people here "Marvel fans" or "DC fans", but I think that's short sighted. Yeah I freely admit I'm more of a Marvel fan because those are the comics I grew up with. I also grew up with the Superfriends, the Christopher Reeves Superman movies, the Adam West Batman show and Batman '89 came out right after I graduated high school. I have investments in both genres, but admittedly I didn't read a lot of DC comics, I was mostly reading Marvel.

Everyone goes into every film no matter the genre with biases. It's human nature.

I admit, there are some here that just want this movie to fail, and there's nothing you can do about that. I think the vast majority of people being critical of the movie, be they Marvel fans or DC fans simply wanted a better movie.

I loved Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. I wasn't as crazy about TDKR, but if this film would have had half of the enjoyment value of TDKR, I'd be raising the roof. My first reaction to this movie as a person who liked some of the things with MoS, but thought overall it was very problematic, was that it was a much better film than this one. Because there still was an enjoyment factor to it.

In all fairness, if the first half of this film were paced like the 2nd half, I think this film would have gotten a lot more positive reviews, even though there were some problematic parts to the 2nd half as well.

Snyder's biggest problem is that he things he needs to show everything on screen, when it is much more effective to only leave in the important shots, and use exposition and dialogue to convey the rest. Do we really need to see Bruce's parent's get shot again? Because this is a well established character you can use that to your advantage in telling this story. Instead of cutting to an irrelevant scene showing [blackout] kids swimming by the destroyed world engine getting the kryptonite[/blackout] they could have cut that scene out and just have Lex explain where he got it.

You might have enjoyed the movie, but if you don't understand that the movie had pacing and editing issues, then you don't understand how movies are made. There's a reason they have "establishing shots" in films because it give context to the viewer. When you cut right into the Knightmare sequence without an establishing shot that "this is a dream" then you lose your audience.

Sorry but screaming, "this movie was awesome, the critics only like formulaic marvel movies" is a platitude not an argument as to why this film was good.

Whether or not something is an issue is up to the viewer to decide.

 

[The Joker]

Whether or not something is an issue is up to the viewer to decide.

Maybe they can't decide it though because they just don't get it like with the "brilliant complexity" of Luthor's character.

 

[Poni_Boy]

If you're a comic book reader IMO you'll find a lot to enjoy. I don't read many comics but even I could point to frames and say "oh! That's right out of Frank Miller" or "Oh that's Alex Ross". This is a film for DC fans who are overtly familiar with the characters. So much so that you might need to project your pre existing knowledge of characters to give them motivation.

I hope you enjoy it

Agree completely. If you read some of the reviews from geek sites that were posted on RT it says the same thing. And I applaud those critics who were able who addressed it in their criticism and didn't overlook it as acceptable for a mainstream movie.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Whether or not something is an issue is up to the viewer to decide.

Lack of establishing shots doesn't matter to people who have no real structural foundation for judging a movie's mechanics.

 

[jmc]

Back to 29% now.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Back to 29% now.

Wow. Never would have thought my 65% prediction would be so off