The Dark Knight Rises Can it be topped?

[Galvanize]

It would be hard to top it but i think Nolan could do it.

 

[Lone]

After the outstanding performance by Heath as the Joker, any other villain would seem like a step down...

If there is a part 3, I think the Black Mask would be the way to go...and introduce Dick Grayson. The whole "Batman needs Robin to keep himself from sinking further and further into darkness" type thing. I'm pretty sure part 3 is gonna be a redemption type story so introducing Grayson would work.

This is all IMO of course.

 

[isaias7]

I BELIEVE IN NOLAN
he gave us Batman Begins
then we believe in him to give us the dark knight and he did
so all ima say is that i believe in him

 

[Lightning54SC]

the only way the movie can be topped would be to get all teh villains together...

recasted Joker, Two Face, Maroni, Falconi, Scarecrow, Raz Al Guel/Talia either or...

Joker - best villain
2Face - wants revenge on Gordon and batman for rachel
Maroni - blames batman fro his money problems
Falconi - wants his control back
scarecrow - wants his drugs
Raz -??? wants bruces butt
Talia - if used could want revenge for her father

 

[Rikxiepoo]

This answer is answered simply by asking another question: What type of movie will the third one be?

-If they decide to basically add more action while keeping the drama interesting they might be able to top TDK, as long as they keep everything explained and well organized.

-If they decide to go a different path and turn it into more of a Mystery or Suspense film then they don't have to top TDK since the film will be a different type of movie and thus cant be compared to TDK in those terms. Since they go a different direction the movie is vastly different and can still be a great movie while not trying to do the things TDK did but in a bigger, more impacting manner.

 

[Crook]

Answering 'NO' to this question is self-defeating and I don't know why anyone would subject themselves to that.

And while TDK may now widely be considered to be the pinnacle of it's genre, that does not mean it's impossible to be dethroned. It was not the PERFECT film, and there won't ever be one. Therefore it's very possible for a film to surpass it by having fewer flaws.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Answering 'NO' to this question is self-defeating and I don't know why anyone would subject themselves to that.

And while TDK may now widely be considered to be the pinnacle of it's genre, that does not mean it's impossible to be dethroned. It was not the PERFECT film, and there won't ever be one. Therefore it's very possible for a film to surpass it by having fewer flaws.

I believe it CAN be topped, but, and this is crucial to my thinking that:

Not by Nolan & Co. The thing, IMO, that held this movie up to greatness was Heath Ledger's portrayal. And he's gone, along with the chance of Nolan creating something better than TDK with BB3.

 

[The_Guyver]

You can't top The Joker as a villain, and Heath's performance will not be topped in this incarnation of Batman, so they need a completely different type of villain. I believe a silent killer, someone like Bane, who could match brains and brawn with Batman, is the way to go. The Knightfall storyline, without the breaking of Batman's back or Azrael, but instead a severe, humiliating beating, and finally redemption, could make for a compelling story. Not better than TDK, but just as compelling in a completely different manner.

 

[BatmanReborn]

What I find annoying is that most of you dont realize just how much of ledgers performance is Nolan. Directing isnt just camera setups, its vision, and its, get this, directing the actions of actors. Not to mention, if the character was not written a certain way in the script, Heath would not have what he did to go off of. Was Ledger brilliant, absolutely, but you have to understand that what made him brilliant, the liberties he took were small, the way he consistantly played with his toungue in his mouth. The distinct voice he came up with, his movement. Nolan gave him a character and he took it to the next step.
My bottom line is just this, its all down to the script, if The Joker was written differntly, Ledger would have played him differntly, The Jokers writing in The Dark Knight was absolutely spot on brilliant.

Now could Nolan tackle penguin and catwoman, sure he could, do i think he should, anhh. I do want catwoman, thats without a doubt, its one of very few times that the wb imposed romance has a point. Catwoman could perfectly fit in, and be done true to her comics counterpart without a problem, but is catwoman going to top ledgers joker? alone NO. But she could be a big piece of the puzzle. Lets face it folks, Love is one of the biggest parts of life. We will always relate to love, If batman is supposed to be human, than love is a part of him as well. This is a love story that is on his level. It can be a huge part in making the next bat film top the second.
Not to mention that she can be the redemption angle, instead of Robin, we all know Nolan doesnt want Robin, doesnt seem like anyone in WB does, and I think its ******ed because the character could be done very well, but lets just face reality here, we wont be getting dick grayson on film in Nolans trilogy. and if they have a change of heart he couls easily fit into my equation anyway. But I think thru catwoman he could just as easily find redemption. I think that he should completely lose himself in batman this time around, why, because he is cutoff, he doesnt have gordon like he did in the first two, he is being hunted, and he is responding with a much more brutal attitude. Catwoman going from villain at the start of the film, to a hero in the end,(opposite of twoface) could be the catalyst (pun intended) for batman seeing light at the end of the tunnel, a villain converted to a hero.
I think its time to eliminate the mob, the freaks have officially taken over by the end of Dark Knight. Having said that, id throw penguin in a small role as the new face of the mob, the freak who had the insight and intelligence to know that there is a void worth filling ("id like to fill her void" sorry)
Not a big role, but a character worth seeing in a realistic setting.

Riddler is the most talked about villain, and if I had to bet on it, I would say he is who were getting as the next primary. I think that its a mistake to put him in number 3.
Why? well, because he wont top ledgers joker. now, technically, nobody should. joker, regardless of who plays him shouldnt be able to be upstagged, but catwoman and riddler wont be enough, you need someone truly insane, a real threat to Gotham in a differnt way than Joker was. I see Nolans Riddler as a Zodiak Killer type villain, much more serious, and more egotistic like a ted bundy. thats a great villain, and a great challenge to Batman, but audiences wont be enthralled by riddler alone, and what reason does catwoman have for opposing or teaming with him, there is no story dynamics to play with there. I say save riddler for 4, lets see another villain that has never graced the screen yet. Lets see Nolan take on
The Madd Hatter

Hear me out on this, Hatter can be done very well in Nolans real Gotham. Especially if you make Selina Kyle resemble the girls he abducts as his Alice. I would definately make Hatter a child molester. Catwoman who is stealing from Penguin at the start of the story, learns of Hatter, and though we dont really need her origin, we could find out that she had a troubled past where she was abused by men, hence acting out in such seductive ways with Batman. Batman however is the one man who doesnt treat her like what she is used to, he treats her like an equal, and there altercations always are respected, and more of a game to one up one another. Its cat & mouse for them, and she loves it. People would be able to feel there relationship, while they will absolutely despise mad hatter. oh, NO MIND CONTROL HATS! but that doesnt mean he doesnt mentally control anyone, he should be a mental genius, well verse at psychology, more like a jim jones, ill make you want to drink my coolade type (or tea). that edgyness might be just what Nolan needs to make Batman 3 the next step from The Dark Knight. It doesnt have to top TDK, it needs to be a differnt movie with a story just as brilliant as TDK.

So my rundown is
penguin in a small role as the new face of the mob
catwoman steals from the mob and runs into batman
a new villain comes to gotham known as The Madd Hatter, and he is abducting little girls who resemble Alice from Alice in Wonderland without any forced entry, he is getting them to follow him.
you could do some really sick stuff with that, I wish nolan could do an r ratred batman

Riddler should be saved for 4 so that batman and the police could be back on the same page, this way we can really see bats play detective, with gordons help, and intro robin in that one.

 

[BatmanReborn]

one thing id like to add though, batman does need a physically imposing character to face off with, maybe penguin should be facing off with someone else for the control of gothams underworld, perhaps like blackmask or bane. I know Bane is not a mob type guy, but he has been hired before, and as long as he is the brains and not just some dope with muscles it could be good. maybe in the last scene we could find out that bane was hired by ras to retake gotham.

maybe thats catwomans turning point, middle of the film, batman is chasing catwoman who stole from bane, and she gets away but bats is in battle with bane, bane is about to break batmans back, catwoman cant walk away and whips banes leg making him drop batman, comes back and saves him, allowing batman to take bane down. bane goes to arkham.

then after the credits of the film, we see bane in his cell, similar to bruce in begins, and ras steps out offering him gotham. that would be a kick ass scene

then in 4 while batman is losing his mind trying to track down the riddler, bane is secretly taking over gotham city.

 

[Beanjuice]

I actually wasnt all what was written you know,ledger came to the role with a certain ideas in mind. he and nolan both collaborated on different things they both wanted to see for Joker

 

[Conebone69]

YES it deffenetly can be topped. This movie isnt perfect

 

[earl-donaldson]

This is my first post. I've been reading the site for a few years though.
I think a good villian choice would be the Mad Hatter

now bare with me

He could take control of children because of their lack of myellin sheathing (or however you spell it) which is something that people only develops when the brain is developed completely. and nolan could use some sort of psuedo medical jargon to explain it. This would be done with some monstrous device or the manipulation of wifi (I don't know, I'll leave it to the genius of nolan).

The children could start killing adults children of the corn style.

The movie would have to be R though because Children killing adults and getting beat up by batman or whatever is way to dark for any other rating.

I know it might sound kind of schumancherish for mad hatter to have some crazy device but nolan could do it. Hell, i wouldn't be suprised if he turned out to be the second coming after the dark knight

 

[Closerframe]

The box-office success can't and won't be topped, the storytelling and characters have a chance to.

 

[TimidationGame]

At this point in time, the natural reaction would be no, since so much hype is surrounding Ledger and the quest to sink the titanic.

Would we like a one to "top" TDK, deep deep down, many would love for one to.

Is it possible...yes, never tell mankind they can't do something.

Is it probable...ah, here is the crux of the issue. The natural reaction from the studios when they strike gold, is to milk it for all it's worth. Bigger names, more action, more more more, and then duplicate it over and over. Many think, when a director gets it right, they have more freedom, but seldom that is actually true when the studio just sees $$$. If WB/DC does not rush it, if they don't cram stuff down Nolans throat, and if they are willing to have faith that what he can come up with is better than whatever they can....then maybe. Have you ever been in love/pain, and think it could never get any better/worse, only to later find out how naive you were?

 

[blueskirt]

As long Nolan is involved, I don't worry about the franchize. I too found TDK had place for improvement (the cluttered feel, Christian Bale fighting for screen time...), and with the right actor, Nolan can create another memorable villain. It won't be easy, but if he did it once, he can do it again.

I think what we should worry the most is what will happen beyond BB3. There are so many stories that Nolan could tell, so many interesting villains and characters to adapt, after TDK, I don't think anyone want this franchize to end, at least not before Knightfall. After all this talk of "a trilogy and nothing more", what we should fear the most is, what will happen to Nolan's vision and the franchize when Nolan, and the people that made BB and TDK so great in the first place, will leave the boat. And I doubt we'll be lucky enough to get Favreau to take over once Nolan will leave. t:

Regarding Mad Hatter: A villain that made it on many lists of worst Batman villains doesn't have its place in a movie when there are much better villains out there and so little screentime for all of them.

 

[TimidationGame]

It's not a matter of who is on what list for what and why.

It's a matter of what will work best for the given story that has to be told and fits in to the "Nolanverse".

We are talking about a director that is VERY good at mystery and pushing how storys are told and how to film. </p>

 

[blueskirt]

We don't need to figure out how to get the men off the boat, he would already have had to figure that out, so how is he going to get them off the boat?

By leaving the boat, I meant what's going to happen to the Batman Begins franchize when Nolan will say "Batman Begins 3 was my last Batman movie. I won't make anymore Batman movies". Who will take over the franchize once Christopher Nolan will leave? Another Schumacher? Will Christian Bale stay if Nolan is no longer involved in the franchize? Will Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman stay too?

 

[blueskirt]

Sorry, double post.

 

[TimidationGame]

By leaving the boat, I meant what's going to happen to the Batman Begins franchize when Nolan will say &quot;Batman Begins 3 was my last Batman movie. I won't make anymore Batman movies&quot;. Who will take over the franchize once Christopher Nolan will leave? Another Schumacher? Will Christian Bale stay if Nolan is no longer involved in the franchize? Will Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman stay too?

Ha that's funny, I was not referring to your boat comment.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

At this point in time, the natural reaction would be no, since so much hype is surrounding Ledger and the quest to sink the titanic.

Would we like a one to "top" TDK, deep deep down, many would love for one too.

Is it possible...yes, never tell man kind they can't do something.

Is it probable...ah, here is the crux of the issue. The natural reaction from the studios when they strike gold, is to milk it for all it's worth. Bigger names, more action, more more more, and then duplicate it over and over. Many think, when a director gets it right, they have more freedom, but seldom that is actually true when the studio just sees $$$. If WB/DC does not rush it, if they don't cram stuff down Nolans throat, and if they are willing to have faith that what he can come up with is better than whatever they can....then maybe. Have you ever been in love/pain, and think it could never get any better/worse, only to later find out how naive you were?

Great analogy. You have a point.

 

[Heretic]

Yeah, right about now is when WB suits start "realizing" that they know how to make a more profitable sequel than Nolan would.

 

[Ziggyman]

...If there is a third film...I sure as hell hope it is at least almost as good as The Dark Knight was...!

 

[TimidationGame]

I might add, if you really want to figure out what is going on, you have to ask yourself the right questions

 

[Bads316]

Looking at what the third film will have to include (presuming it follows directly on from TDK with Nolan, Bale etc) we have the rebuilt manor, the new and improved cave, new car!!! Batmans redemption, Gordon coming to terms with being Commish and all that that entails, the truth about Gothams white knight being exposed, Jokers influence on crime in the city as a whole, the remaining fragments of a beaten mob community trying to pull itself back together, Bruce accepting his fate, Alfred becoming more concerned with Bruce losing himself, Reese........

Nolan just needs to follow through with the story that he's already crafted over the two previous films. He needs to stay true to his own vision,and trust HIS instincts when it comes to casting new roles.